Sale at 50 East 89th Street #19A

Having lived there, I can tell you that it's a great building and location - but I'm biased. Just a few of the pros:

The staff is incredibly nice and helpful. There's a 24-hour doorman, concierge and porters. You can pull your car/cab under the porte cochere (which is extremely helpful when it rains mind you) and the concierge is there to greet you with a luggage cart to unload your stuff and bring it to your apartment. It's a bit over the top for me sometimes and I feel like I'm in a hotel at times.

The gym is small but useful and the place is maintained meticiulously with fresh flowers in the lobby and a garage in the building which can be reached directly via your intercom. It's PS 6 which is a plus if you have kids (and for resale) and a block from CP. It's also on the same block as Dalton, Trevor Day and St. David's - three top private schools.

The building is set back from 88th Street on the south (via the building's own garden), 89th Street, and the building to the east on Park (via another garden) - so pretty much every exposure is going to be protected and you are guaranteed not to have another building cutting off any light or views. The ceilings are also relatively high for a post-war.

The building also has a reputation of having people never leave there and there are lots of families who have been there forever who have bought adjacent apartments and broken-through.

If you can't tell. I love it. What else do you want to know?

Very helpful, thanks.
Care to comment on price?

still at it, Falco? so i took a look at listings in Carnegie Hill. in terms of listing price it seems in the ballpark, which is around $1000 psf for the convertible threes. did seem to be in a bit worse shape than the four or five comps i found, but they were a bit more expensive (and a bit larger). maintenance seems typical.

have to go off and indulge the daughter's shopping needs. looking for sold and closed comps is harder, but i'll have a go at it later. for smaller units in the building there was just a sale closed that would indicate late 2006ish pricing, but that's hardly a large sample, and it was the wrong size.

Love the location and joepa did a nice sell! Not a major issue, but going for the floorplan that is not a 1500 sf apartment. It seems more like 1300-1350. Not a dealbreaker, just my 2 cents.

yike it - good luck.

MBR off entry foyer (if you can call that an entry foyer).

10A sold for $1.2M 4/2005.

I think "porte cochere" is a bit hyperbolic.

Great feedback.
Still searching for neighborhood comps for pricing considerations. I think joepa is the listing agent and did an equally great job of showing and selling. If it is the agent she presented as professional informed and charming...nice change.
AR, still at it and, could use you expertise on this one. I'm having trouble valuing this one and am seriously considering a bid. In fact bid considerations is what I'm looking for.

I can swear 100% that I am not the listing agent and have no vested interested at all in this place.

I have not seen the apartment and I am not in-tune with current comps so I won't try to speculate whether the price is right either. I think you are in the best position to do that. The only thing I can tell you is that - based on the fixed factors above -- this place should hold its value a lot better than most.

thanks joepa,
If we end up neighbors I'll look you up!

Still can't locate a reasonable comp in the neighborhood.
Are there any searchers out there with superior skills?

I'm not digging this esthetic so close to Park Ave. Call me conservative, but I wouldn't buy a non-prewar on this stretch of UES.

1435 Lexington? but very different, and i think nicer. check out the 1400 sf 2 bed for under a million. new listing, no pictures, but if it's really 1400 sf it probably would be a much better deal.

Falco: I know you're chomping at the bit to buy, but wait until you know where your daughter is in school and settled.

what 10023 said.

what 10023 said.

what 10023 said.

sorry, gremlins in the computer.

1230 Park, 11E, also pre-war, also looks to be in better shape.

I'm married to out-door space. Once you decide UES, west of Park, south of 96, north of 65 include the out-door space that does not leave a lot to pick from. Love the pre-war but, little to no out-door space. Let's not forget about the budget. It's a neighborhood I know well (lifetime) and one I thought I was priced out of forever. If I hearing you correctly, this place is over priced? By how much? Guess away...I wont hold you to it.

I dont know if the price is right-I am not a broker, but it sure seems like a very nice apartment with great light and views. I love the window in the kitchen. And for an UES location its very good. I'd rather be there than on Lexington. (I grew up at 92nd and Park.) I too prefer prewar, but this apartment has views, light and large windows that many prewars dont plus terrace. And no, I have no connection to building or apartment or broker. My gut tells me that if you can get for $1000/ft (properly measured) you'll look back and be happy about it.

$1000 psf does seem to be in the ballpark for today's listing prices. as you've noticed, there are very few transactions occuring that comp with this.

you can't just look at your budget (until you actually offer, of course), because prices continue to fall. and because listing prices are not firm. you need to look at a wide range, within reason of course, and try to determine what would suit you best, and whether that will likely become accessible before you need to purchase the walker. wait for more distress, Falco, and then you'll see much greater variability in pricing and be able to find a great deal. on the other hand, if you're beginning to twitch because you feel the need to buy so badly, offer no more than $900 psf for this and see what happens.

here's a few considerations.

it needs to be completely updated. how much you think that will cost to renovate kitchen and 3 baths plus the floors???? 200-300K?

there's really no way to convert this into a 3 br, unless you don't mind having to go through a bedroom to access the balcony.

i checked the sq ft and it seems that 1500 is fairly accurate. at least the broker didn't lie there WOW.

I dunno falco... just based on the 30% premium of the 05 comp on the 10th flr, and allowing for condition, I would say there is plenty to justify coming in at a much lower number. They do seem serious about discounting and getting a sale... summer starting, dated condition, only 14 saves... all in your favor.

I closed at about 20% below a 04 comp, condition was also not great. Prime properties in poor condition are gold IMO, but price has to reflect condition.

falco, you really can't ask me for a bid level, because my real inclination is so low it would presume you didn't care in the slightest if you got it.

ab_11218 is right, the reno costs will be substantial. most of the few comps out there are in better shape, so you should reduce for condition, and more than just the dollar cost because the logistical cost counts too. and then you should add something for outdoor space.

big help in prespective. This does needs work although I would keep the 2br. layout and just fix the floors/kitchen/bathrooms/skim coat etc. (BS estimate=$200,000). So, 1.4MM in primo shape, 1.2MM in current shape plus reno (plus life/hassel cost). This has to be 1.15MM to be a deal and even then it's no that great. I do like the location and have no private school fears except tuition. I'm going to continue the search but, watch this one age on the shelf. Prehaps a quite summer will make the sellers more relaxed about their expections. Thanks for all the brain work, it makes the site a valuable resorce and way cheaper than therapy. On a side note, some of my 'saved' that went into contract in Feburary and March are back out on the market...go figure. First it's doom and gloom followed by happy days are here again followed by OMG, we're going down again...talk about a bipolar market. Somebody's forgetting to take their lithium.

"some of my 'saved' that went into contract in Feburary and March are back out on the market."

meaning the deal fell through or the buyers are trying to resell?

most likely deals that fell through, new construction might be turning right back around though.

falco, have a look at this. this is what i was saying on the comps thread. you'll do much better in a less "desirable" neighborhood, which may not be less desirable depending on your daughter's school. if you don't like the renovations, they don't add any value, but they seem fairly decent to me. but note they purchased for $997k in '05.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/417810-300-e-85th-st-yorkville-new-york

just to make a point. will continue to keep eyes open for west of park.

that's a remarkable comp. isn't that across the street from the new building mentioned on another thread that is stalled? the same thing more or less at the brompton is asking twice as much?

there is of course a world of difference between park/mad and 2nd avenue but does a world = $200 K, $400 K? at $400 K diff, that's your place in the country for 3 1/2 blocks. glad i don't have to make this kind of choice.

CC: yes, a block or two makes a huge difference. Maybe not between 3rd and 2nd but between 2nd and Park/Mad. Definitely.

yep but how much is it actually worth? AR seems to have found a comp that is damn close--pics make it look nicer. how much more would you pay for the park/mad location?

CC: IMO, Manhattan is made up of micro-neighborhoods as far as RE values are concerned. I can only speak for the UWS, I don't know what sort of premium an UES buyer would pay. On the West Side, park block versus non-park block commands a huge premium. Say, on a 2m apartment, buyers have been known to pay a 400k premium.
There are lots of other factors, but all things being equal, location is easily a 20% premium.

Speaking for myself and our current property, I will always be slightly annoyed that I didn't hold out for a better location. Even at a 20+% price.

Interesting thoughts. To be fair I have spent most of time searching east of Park in the 70s &80s. For one thing we like outdoor space and we like value. I want a building in excellent condition and good financials, beyond that, I'm not interested in building amenities, features, famous tenents or 'impressions'. Proximity to Central Park is a peripheril wish that we dismissed because of the meteoric rise in price over the last few years. Now, here and there a few properties fall within grasp so we consider them. This is one such property.
AR, this is an excellent comp and I thank you for your fortitude. This one is really a challenge to price. I decided to utilize the C line in this building for comparison pricing. 4 of these have turned in the last three years so I thought they might lend prespective. C is 1000 sq/ft., no terrace, same view.
05/09--25C=$875,000
06/08--17C=$1,325,000
05/08--21C=$1,150,000
02/07--27C=$725,000
It would be hard to bid above the $725 sq/ft given this information.
That would mean an opening bid from me at $1,085,000. I'm not a know it all but, that seems far from the ask and I would NOT be willing to meet them half way ($1,317,500) considering the pending costs of renovation. The last 'real' comp is 10A in 2005 for $1,200,000.
This has degenerated into to and acedemic experience. My expectations and the sellers are too far apart at the moment. This deals needs a little dust and, you just never know.

You can't compare the C-line (one bedroom) to the A-line (2 bedroom) in this building. First, by nature, 2 bedrooms (especially those that are convertible to 3) are in much higher demand than a one-bedroom - thus, the psf is going to be higher. This holds even more true for this type of building. People who want to buy in this area are generally families that want to take advantage of CP and the schools. They don't want a 1 bedroom. Second - the A line allows washer/dryer.

The value of this apartment - compared to some of the comps that have been given -- is really in the building and location. You are a block from CP and in, arguably, one of the best and best-known school districts in the city. It's also a luxury doorman building with great service (I've lived in many buildings in NY and the staff and service here is incomparable). As you know, you are going to pay a HUGE premium to be one block from CP and in PS 6. If those aren't concerns for you - you will definitely get more space for your buck if you go east of lex or outside PS 6.

I have no idea where this market is going - but I'd be willing to bet this apartment never hits $1.2.

joepa,
points well taken.

In the kind of market we're in, I think it's wise to be in a higher-demand location. There are millions of condos/co-ops east of Park. Fewer west of Park without crazy liquidity and net worth constraints.

nyc10023, i don't think people realize how many people find Yorkville a very desirable location. It has remained less "attractive" to some, but there are many GS, MS md-types up there. Because of the schools. i don't personally care for it, i don't care for carnegie hill either. i'm just pointing out that among certain private school populations, one of which falco may join, distance to school trumps everything. i think the comp i provided is overpriced, actually, and may well trade lower, although someone may like the reno and go for it.

falco, distress moves units. keep looking and when you don't feel like asking us questions, for fear you might lose the opportunity by advertising the unit, that may well be the time for you to pull the trigger.

All I'm saying is that the market has traditionally paid more for west of Park. And there is more product in Yorkville. He could definitely save a lot of money by living in Yorkville, but if his daughter doesn't go to C/B, then it's a hike.

of course it is. i think i was agreeing with your earlier comment that it might be better to wait and see where his daughter goes to school.

in the near term, yorkville may have a huge crash in prices ahead of it as it was one of those areas that appreciated at a fairly high slope. but i think it's improved as a neighborhood, so it's decline may be tempered.

Looks like this one entered contract - did you bite the bullet falco?