Emails from broker-should I worry?

Tell the broker to stop sending you emails. You are not obligated to make this person your broker if they send you emails. If they have spent time taking you around to different apartments and have effecteively acted as your broker, you should tell thatm taht you do not need their services anymore and go on your way. If you signed any agreement with them, you should check that too.

Oh no, you are in big trouble..... trying to cut a broker out of a deal....... big no no.... get ready for your trip to court.

#3 shut up, that's not true and you know it. You only have a problem if you've signed an agreement with them.

Sorry #4........ get you facts straight before you proclaim yourslef all knowing and try to shut other people up....

You do not need to sign a written agreement, all you need is a verbal one. If the broker claims #1 was trying to circument an oral agreement they had between them, he or she has a case.

See you in court.

Stooping pretty low there aren't we #5 for your undeserved commissions, and brokers wonder why people hate them.

I'm sorry you thought brokers were suckers who you could drag around town whenever you feel like it #6.

#5, you are just plain wrong and you know it. Stop trying to scare people. This broker is not invovled in a "deal." Sending emails means nothing. If the broker took the person to see the apartment, they have a fair argument that they deserve a cut (although there are certainly many senarios where that is not enough), but that is certainly not the case here.

Well, we do not know what kind of discussion #1 originally had with his/her broker do we? I guess he it will be some version of he said, she said. #1 may have to explain to judge how well she understands the english language.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse #8.

I understand the original posters position. There's plenty one can do ON THEIR OWN - nytimes, this website, natefind, etc. without a broker. The challenge is if you do this work on your own and then the broker emails you the same listing. This happened to me repeatedly with my broker and I really started to get concerned. So, here's how I worked it out: I found the place and used my broker to help negotiate the deal, create the board package and work as the go-between with the sellers broker. Do I think my broker deserved the 3% she got in the end. Well, not really. But as a first time buyer, it made me more comfortable to have someone knowledgeable helping. Would I do it the same way again? Probably not, but only because I feel way more confident in my knowledge.

OP here. I contacted this broker by email originally seeking exclusives through that particular real estate company. That's it; I have never met this person. Anyway, I sent him an email today saying he was wasting my time and his, I only wanted to hear from him regarding exclusives at his place. I think he was trying to get a cut without doing much of anything; he wanted me to go to the open house without him and list him as my broker, and he was going to negotiate my deal. Like hell he was. I'm not new at real estate, I can handle my own deal and I have a good lawyer. Anyway, he wrote me back and said, OK, no problem, which was nice of him instead of lecturing.
Other thing is, I do think my instincts are right about split commissions. As a buyer I am not "working with a broker," I chasing properties of interest. I have yet to hear of a property for sale from any of the brokers I've contacted that I didn't already know about.

If you don't want to work with a broker then don't contact them to help you. However, since there is no MLS in NYC it is possible that you could miss a great property as brokers have access to a database and can see all listings without having to search different websites.
If you think by going direct to the selling broker is a guarantee of getting the apartment you are mistaken. The broker's job is to present ALL offers to the seller and the seller will choose the best offer from the most qualified buyer. Also, in this market where there are sometimes several people bidding, you need an experienced broker who knows how to word an offer and ask the right questions to make you look the best and ultimately get you the apartment. Furthermore, if the bidding goes into what is called a best and final you will be competing against buyers who have savvy brokers who can use certain wording to win the bid. I have wording that is guaranteed to win every time and there is no chance that a buyer would take the apartment away from a buyer represented by me.

previous post is very blatantly self-servving unfortunately. I know some very savvy people who have bought without a broker.

while #13s comments are appreciated, and fundamentally, I do agree that you should work with a pro, the "no MLS" agrgument is a funny one to make on StreetEasy ;-)

Aren't you just super special and all knowing #13.

With comments like #13, is it any wonder why the broker community is so despised?? A little bit of humility never hurt anyone

...lol...she certainly isn't doing anything to make us brokers look good...

I am a second time buyer currently in the market and can't understand why people don't do their research before selecting a broker - if you have any instincts whatsoever you can tell in the first 10 minutes if you can work with someone. Further, if you find yourself feeling uncomfortable with someone - move on - there is certainly no shortage of brokers in the city. I am working with two GREAT women from Douglas Elliman and have no complaints. This firm demands professionalism from their brokers. I also agree with previous posters who noted that the job of a broker is no bargain. They have to drag people around the city in all kinds of weather, deal with ignorant people who don't show for appointments and listen to the constant whining of people who want what they want, when they want it. As buyers/sellers, we tend to focus on the $ they made on our own transaction which may have gone smoothly - we don't see the 100 other nightmares they have encountered.

whenever dealing with a broker, tell them you are a broker too. Thats when they drop the bullshit and talk straight to you.

What is this ' I have special wording that will win every bid' rubbish that number 13 is crowing on about? What a load of rot - the primary determinant of whether a bid will win or not is the $ figure. Pure and simple. As for bidding strategy in a final sealed buid scenario, game theory indicates you should bid what you think the property is worth (to you) - not a penny more and not a penny less.

Furthermore - no signed contract, nio commission. Verbal contracts are meaningless in a court of law, since they are subject to hear-say.

"Verbal contracts are meaningless in a court of law, since they are subject to hear-say."

Utterly nonsensical comment. Oral contracts are often as strong if not stronger than written ones. There are instances in which a court will not recognize an oral contract, however dealings with an R.E> broker is not one of them. Generally, contracts for the sale of land or leases in excess of one year require a written agreement. And all evidence/testimony is subject to the hearsay rule. When dealing with an R.E. broker, be very careful about what you say on the telephone and/or in email. An email can absolutely in some cases constitute a contract, particularly when produced in conjunction with oral testimony.

That's not what Judge Judy says!

An email is quite a different matter to a conversation, of which there is likely no record.
What is objectionable in the original poster's scenario is that a broker would try to introduce themselves as a buyer's broker without am explicit (verbal or written) invitation to do so. WHen a potentia client asks a broker for their exclusive listing, it is not an invitation to act as a buyer's broker - though that could be offered as an option. That kind of tactic gives brokers a bad name - which in many cases is richly deserved.

here's a question--The sign up list which brokers always ask you to sign. Assume that you go to an open, sign the thing, and then contact a buyer's broker for assistance and that broker shows you a bunch of units, one of which you signed a sheet for because you went to the open prior to engaging a buyer's broker. Can the listing agent refuse to deal with you? Pretty certain the answer is no, but in practice I know the answer is yes. This happened to me on an exclusive in BK.

#23--Not sure if thats a joke or if thats where you get your legal advice. I know Judge Judy is loaded from that show but from what I've seen of her show, its just that --more show that legal precedent. Its not made to be a legal resource, its made for entertainment. I always found that Judge Milian on the People's Court (when I've seen her) is actually a much purer jurist.

#26, this is #23 - obviously I was kidding. And it seems like you watch too much daytime TV.
But, nevertheless, I am intrigued about the circumstances over when a verbal agreement would stand up in court. Any lawyesrs with an informed opinion on this?

#27 - I am an attorney licensed in three states including this one. A contract does not have to be in writing (other than in a few limited circumstances two of which I stated above) provided there is enough evidence, either or both written or oral for the finder of fact to determine each element of a contract existed (i.e. offer, acceptance and consideration (i.e. payment --need not necessarily be money)). that informed enough for you?

Very informed - many thanks for the clarification.
But you still watch too much day-time TV for my liking.

#13, no MLS is pure BS. The NYTimes, and sites like natefind, streeteasy, etc. are effectively the defacto MLS, and good enough.

#21 I assure you that you are incorrect as you have no idea of the wording that I use in a best and final. My point being if you want to work alone then do it, don't ask a broker for help and then complain that they are sending you listings as #1 has stated.

#18 Give me a break, I work for the best interest of my customers and the majority of us that are professionals work that way otherwise, why do these people need us? As for the MLS, a good broker will listen to the customers needs and after a few meetings will be able to hone in on what they are looking for rather than waste their time showing properties that they will not like.

Plevy--problem is that you undermined the merits of an otherwise good (and true)post with the hyperbolic bragging in the last line.("guaranteed to win every time!""No chance"), and gave those inclined an opportunity to scoff.
That having been said--it is silly for anyone not to realize how important wording and phraseology (and an understanding of what the seller wants to hear)is in these situations. On many levels. Bids are not for the most part merely a sum of money written on a page, and a GOOD broker (or admittedly a very savvy and psychologically astute buyer) will have the upper hand in such a sitution, and may in fact "win" when cold hard numbers should indicate otherwise.

Perhaps somebody could give an example of how wording in a 'best and final' offer, rather than hard cash, could win the day, to appease my (perhaps naive) cynicism. I must confess that I have never been through the bidding process, so please educate me.
I can really only think of 2 (maybe 3) circumstances in non-monetary factors might matter to a seller (at the best and final stage of the bidding process - initial bids are a different matter):
1. making a time-sensitive 'exploding' offer to pressure a quick decision (but runs the risk of backfiring if the seller is not a forced seller).
2. attaching conditions to the offer - such as the sale of one's own house.
3. perhaps throw in some flattery?

Mr C

#32 I always win a best and final and I learned this technique from one of the top brokers in NY and it does win the bid. Your last sentence says it all, I agree 100%

quit with your website plevy. this is not your advertising board. it is very tacky and reduces your credibility every time.

You obviously havent spent too much time on forums, many brokers, website owners etc, sign with a link to their site. It gives them more credibility because they are using their real names, businesses, etc and therefore are backing their comments with some type of accountability Would you prefer the advice of some anonymous jerk or someone who is posting their real name.

BTW---- I am not Plevy, before you jump to that conclusion. I do work in real estate however.

You are trying to hard to reason with these people #36..... posters here (like #35) believe in the blind leading the blind.

Unsolicited email leads from a broker are ABSOLUTELY NOT BINDING. The NY statute of frauds provides that any agreement to pay compensation for services rendered in negotiating the purchase, sale, exchange, renting or leasing of any real estate must be in writing.

Plevy - your wordsmithing Jedi skills must be pretty f**ing advanced to negotiate a discount that would make up for the 3% fee you would charge (and that a buyer could potentially save by not having a buying broker involved). For a 2 million dollar apartment, your fee would come to $60,000. That's a lot of dough per word, o silver-tongued one. Pray, give us an inkling of your world-renowned technique.

Mr C

Your insulting her and yet want to know her technique....... o well #39, take the time to try to figure it out by yourself..... then put a price on it.

It's "you're insulting ...", not "your insulting".
You can't put a price on correct grammar.

#39 I don't give up my commission as I work too hard for it and that is not part of my technique at all. Sorry, try again.

#36 Thank you.

hmmm... what if I found a listing, told "my" broker about it, she then got the keys and showed it to me... and then i bought it... do i get a piece of the commission too? lol.

Maybe it goes something like this on a final and best. "I will offer 10,000 more than the highest offer proving it is beloew aa certain ceiling amount"

Use a broker and good attorney for your first deal. Learn as much as you can. The, never use a broker again.

I am closing on my first place -- a W Village apartment -- next week. I ran without a broker. There's a couple of upsides that have not been mentioned:

1. If you're bidding on a popular place, seller's broker has a big incentive to deal with you if you don't have a broker -- they don't have to split the commission. So they double their money. Making you a veeery attractive candidate if the offers are streaming in (this was the case on my place).

2. If you're bidding on a place that's been sitting on the market for a while, and is FSBO, they will knock the amount they would have paid to a broker OFF the sale price. So on your typical NY Apt., you save $30,000. Or if you're buying a condo, this works too, I've found.

Overall, I felt freer without a broker, and would probably not have got my place if I had a broker. In the end Seller's broker helped me with the co-op application (i.e. He reviewed it and typed it up) but I can't see any other way in which a broker would have been useful to me, ESPECIALLY these days with great websites like Streeteasy. (Seriously, can ANY broker compare to Streeteasy where I can just type in my price range and glide over a map of Manhattan viewing availablity??)

NOTE though that I had a very good and experienced real estate attorney. Much cheaper than a broker, and watches your back throughout. So THIS I would say is indispensible. (She reviewed co-op finances, etc.)

BTW while I'm adding my two cents, NOTHING is more annoying than brokers who want to represent you but pretend that they're representing the seller of a For Sale By Owner (FSBO). I think they're the ones who give the profession a bad name.

Happy House Hunting!!

You are assuming that the entire brokerage industry is corrupt. Yes a buyer without a broker is attractive but they must be the highest bidder and most qualified. Especially if offers are streaming in. All offers must be presented to the seller. The seller wants the most money from the buyer who can pass the board/complete the transaction they don't care how much extra money the broker is getting.

I went through a recent condo purchase with a broker. I was a first time buyer so I learned a lot. I also learned enough to know that next time I do not need a broker. While she worked hard for me to find listings etc., I can see how I can find those myself. Additionally, having been through the process once - I am better for the next time. Never mind, you are more attractive to a seller when you do not have a broker.

I'm anti-buyer's brokers, but have found that when I am buying, not selling, I must deal with brokers. Part of it is security--people are really terrified of selling their own place for fear of making a mistake. The broker industry does a little to fuel this paranoia, too.

A lot of people in NYC, and on this board, are very financially savvy people. If you manage your portfolio, run a small business, or a myriad of other things, you are well-qualified to avoid brokers, either as a buyer or as a seller. You will have to learn a few things and get a good atty, but you can. If however you faint at the sight of your W-2, then yeah, you will probably miss out on the advantages of going broker-less.

Number 46 here > Fair enough, Plevy. I'm making assumptions that an economist would make (rational self interest) -- which may make it look like I'm assuming corruption. Thing is, I think people don't need to be corrupt to have their financial interest cloud their judgment or steer them in a particular direction. But economics has a hard time measuring professional integrity, and there's definitely plenty of that out there in the real estate community, even if its hard to find sometimes.

I think Number 50 is wise on this, and the w-2 test sounds like a solid indicator of whether you need a broker to hold your hand. I'd reiterate the importance of a good real estate attorney though! Very helpful to have one.