4W21 condop in flat iron

It's not a cond-op. It's a regular co-op. The co-op may have condo rules, but that doesn't make it a cond-op. The building went up as co-op (unusual in 2000) because condos have to own, not lease, the land.

Take a look at the leases, mortgages, and sales on ACRIS: block 822, lot 45. Messy, convoluted, lots of shares held by one owner, and on and on. With all that's available out there, no reason to buy into something that's not straightforward.

Discussed at various places on the first, second and third pages of this thread:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/7613-if-you-can-demonstrate-market-movement-with-comps-downtown-edition?page=1

Also mentioned here (mostly near the bottom of the thread):
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/7516-my-neighbor-is-undercutting-my-price-please-help-building-at-10-west-66th-street?page=2

"It's not a cond-op. It's a regular co-op. The co-op may have condo rules, but that doesn't make it a cond-op. The building went up as co-op (unusual in 2000) because condos have to own, not lease, the land."

You are fighting a losing battle. This mis-use of the term has had my blood boiling for YEARS (ok, decades actually), but unfortunately it's now so widely used that even most of the broker's listing systems use the term that way.

It's like when attorneys use the term "out of pocket" incorrectly and I want to smack them.

Paul, check to see if the building has a real estate tax exemption gthat is wearing off. If so maintenance will go up as it does. In a land lease situation, the portion of the re taxes attributable to the land is not deductible. What are terms of ground lease? If all rent was paid by developer up front-like Chelsea Enclave, that's good. Some folks on SE advise to avoid all land lease situations, but I think that's silly.

Poor 30 of the blood a boiling. As I am sure you know, cond-ops arose to avoid 80-20. What does "out-of-pocket" mean?

I think you're right. Even SE has it wrong in the terminology section of its Help page.

thanks for the info. the comps thread is especially informative -- wow, very big chop-chop-chops.

FIJ: there is a tax abatement that lasts another 10 years. they had their first "up" in the phase-in of the taxes this year. i also did ask if the rent that the land-owner charged was subject to increase (the answer was no), but i didn't ask if it was all paid up front. as we walked out of the building, i was thinking that it was a strange arrangement for the rent to be locked in for 100 years, but i guess an all-upfront payment would make that seem a bit more conventional. but bottom line is, i'm not sure. thanks for the advice.

NWT, 30Y: i must say that i do not know what the precise definition of a cond-op is, but i am comfortable in knowing that this is a "co-op with condo rules", since we've been looking at many a co-op anyway.

i must say that i've never dealt with a landlease before, so i'm a bit uneasy with it as well (though we're very early in the process--haven't even submitted a bid or anything). but we are looking in flatiron, chelsea, soho mostly, and you end up checking different things out. (no harm in looking, folks.) ... the boss has her eyes on 225 lafayette right now. so it's all just window-shopping for now.

any other suggestions and advice always appreciated!!