One way to try to get a good deal......

Aye, tis true.

The problem is I feel like there are either crappy properties or desirable ones. For the crappy ones, the prices just keep getting lowered until someone sees it as a bargain/compromise. But a lot of people want a nice home for their buck, so they will sell with multiple bidders if they are priced well.

Giving a low ball offer is a big mistake because the seller does not take this type of offer seriously and sometimes will not even counter. If you are serious about the property you place a fair offer, yes of course try to negotiate but you cannot be ridculous or you just won't get the property. It's supply and demand and there is competition for the good apartments. Just because you are the highest bidder does not make you a jackass if you have done your homework and love the property.

OP HERE - As far as I am concerned #4 Brokers shouldnt even be a part of this discussion, all your hyped up BS has helped raise prices to ridiculous levels. Your comment makes my point. Its hard to get a good deal when you are competing against the collective idiocy of everyone out there. Everyone has gotten to the point where it overpaying just seems like the thing to do..... they dont even check comps that often anymore..... it just a cultural phenomenom....... a competition of egos to see who can pay more.

That may be true for some, op, but most people cannot afford to do that. Are the prices way way up, of course, but if you want to buy, you either pay those prices or move out of Manhattan. Not everyone is or can afford to be stupid with their money. At Starbucks, maybe, but in real estate, get real!

It's called supply and demand.

... if there were that many good properties out there like the one you wanted, then there would be more "supply" eh?

oh #5. why can't people like you understand and respect the market. the market will bear what the market will bear. if you don't think a particular place is worth a certain price, don't pay it, and if someone else does, don't complain, people have money and they want a particular place to live, if they want to spend it god bless. You're basically saying I don't value real estate as much as the next guy, but you're bitter about it, thats your decision, its not the other guy's fault.

and one more thing. lowball offers sometimes will get you a deal, especially if a property has been on the market for awhile. But often they're just insulting to the seller.

I think streeteasy.com should consider taking off personal advertisements - specifically I am talking about people like plevy who include their personal website on each posts. It certainly helps to weed the person's comments out and filter as they are typically self-serving. However, this is not a site for personal advertising in that way.

Ridiculous and frankly - it is getting quite annoying. It's a s bad as spam!

why do you care?

i have to say i didn't even notice it. as bad as spam? spam you can an email that you have delete, this is like 15 characters you just ignore. and your right, it actually has value in that it tells you the point of view of the poster.

Can I swing this back to the original topic? I'm curious as to what is considered "fair" and what is "low-balling." I am in a situation where I am about to make an offer on an apt that is just converting to coop - the owner/sponsor set prices based on size of the apts without considering the condition (which varies greatly.) I am interested in one that's in the best condition, and the asking price is (from what I've researched) below market. What is an advisable first offer, in this situation?

If you think the asking price is below market then I would advise you to offer the full asking price and act immediately otherwise you will find yourself outbid by someone else. This is generally the scenario lately with good apartments that are priced fairly or slightly below.

To clarify, "best" condition is relative. None of them are in great conditon; all are beng sold "as is." I think if they were to want to get market prices, they'd have to do more than a little work on all of them, even this one.

#13, check out www.urbandigs.com. There was a great article a while back about submitting a low offer.

As a recent seller, the best thing you can do is have a very good sense of what your property is worth and not even consider low ball offers. Even countering them creates an unbalanced negotiation scenerio in which the buyer's offer has been given credibility and they believe that is a place to start. We just refused to even accept lowball offers.

As a buyer, however, I highly reccomend the practice if you could basically go either way on the place, as many sellers may just ignore you.

disagree on the lowballs (if you consider 8% or more off ask a lowball--which I do particularly on a fairly priced unit). When I sold, I had a guy who lowballed, negotiated with him and he walked literally over 4,000. Next guy lowballed me even more, negotiated him up to 2% off ask. Mine was not a premier property (i.e. not a 1 MM property where 8% may not be a lowball), but not every one is and you get the point. Just cause someone lowballs does not mean they're deadbeats, truly. I lowball all the time and I'm no deadbeat (relatively).

So is there some sort of standard in terms of what is lowball and what is more reasonable? What's a typical first offer? I'm in a situation where there are several apartments I like and would be happy in, so I figure I will take the one where I get the best deal. My plan was to submit low offers on each of these apartments and sort of see what responses I get from the sellers. Any suggestions? How low should I offer?

The problems is getting a response when you lowball.

I am trying to buy a studio apartment for a family member. Every desireable unit I have seen has gotten multiple offers at or above asking. If you lowball you won't even be invited back for Best and Final offers.

I second the idea of going to urbandigs.com and following that strategy to bid. I did and it worked great for me. I have no connection whatsoever with that site.

#20, there are apartments listed on the NY Times real estate section right this minute that you can buy below the listed price, because I bid on one and after negotiation I know just what that seller will accept -- 7% below asking price. For another, the apartment is listed at $350K (last I looked), and the broker essentially told me during the showing that the owner will accept $300K. Both NICE places in good locations, door man buildings, if I could afford more than one I would buy them, too!

If you're buying for a child in college a lot of people do NOT want to deal with you, period. There was a long article about this in the Times. Exactly what the problems I don't know, but it's obviously a big negative.

As long as you're willing to accept the fact that in making an offer that's 15% or more off of the asking price you may not (probably won't) end up with an accepted bid, and you don't mind running the risk of alienating the seller with a low bid, then there really isn't any reason not to make a low offer. You never know. Urban.digs is a great site, and I also recommend it (I have learned a lot from it). He explains it all very clearly. I am a buyer and have been in the market for a few months and now am in contract on a place I like. We ended up bidding the ask after a lower bid, and I have to say that I don't regret it: the place was priced reasonably based on my research, and I'm happy with it. We made bids on several places, in one case very low (19% less than ask; they laughed it off, no hard feelings; it was out of our range anyway) and in another case somewhat low (8% off, where we were countered and it would have worked out if we'd pursued it, but we found a place we liked better). In other cases we ended up in a Best and Final situation and bid 100K over the ask (it went for at least 150K over the ask). So it's very property- and context-specific. I think 5% - 10% you should get a good reaction; up to 10% low and you might possibly be in business, with your chances decreasing (and time-wasting factor on everyone's part, including your own, increasing) the lower you go from there.

#20 here: The fact that there are overpriced apartments on the market that can be purchased for lower than asking is besides the point. The apartments that I find desireable and I would be willing to purchase are selling at asking or above. Why do I care if apartments that I find undesireable could be purchased for less than asking?

I am purchasing for my mother, using her assets to do a 100% cash purchase. I have power of attorney. Because my mother is paying for the apartment with her assets (which she has had in her name for a very long time), will be paying the maint or common charges and real estate tax herself with her own assets, will be living in the apartment, and will have liquid assets of several times the purchase price available after the purchase...I highly doubt that any broker or board will have a problem with her child executing the purchase on her behalf via a valid power of attorney. After all, what do people do when they can't attend their own closing? They give someone else power of attorney.

#23 - what??? How does this relate to the discussion. Good for you on power of attorney??!

Hey, calm down #24.

#23 (and #20) was responding to #21, who suggested that he would have a hard time buying an apartment for a family member. While buying for a child can be difficult, executing a transaction for another party is not the same type of challenge. Boards love little old ladies with money....even if the can't go househunting for themselves.