The Charleston

i did not even know that new developments negotiated.... thanks.

b/t/w does anyone know why this new development is less per sq. ft. than other new developments? i feel like i'm missing something. is it a sub par builder?

It has a few less fancy things-no childrens play room, no swimming pool
But balconies and exhausts in kitchen that suck the smoke out and variety of plans for 2 beds
Also its LCORs first residential venture in NYC. LCOR is a big reputable company.
The project is financed by california pension fund, not private investor, so they want to price it right-my guess. Also for many Murray Hill is not sexy enough-the nbhd is convenient, good public school etc etc
We bought (many months back)

thanks for the info... was not aware that a pension fund is the financier. how did you come about that tip?

thanks for the info. but i'm still not understanding why this is the only new development thats close to $1000 per sq foot where the others appear to be much more. the prices in the neighborhood dont appear to be any lower than the rest of manhattan. regardless of who is funding it, i would think everyone would want to get as much as possible.

additionally, at these prices, i expected them to sell out by now. whats keeping people from buying them? i know its close to a midtown tunnel exit and all that but so is the corinthian. and the manhattan place is close to an entrance to the midtown tunnel and the resale of apts there appear to be asking more than 1000 per sq ft. any ideas?

anyone had any success (including poster #3) negotiating the price or any other expense with them. for example, anyone try to negotiate paying their attorneys for the closing costs? negotiate the transfer tax or get any type of closing credit?

thanks again.

While we were looking for a place the sales staff at charleston was most forthcoming with info (we could pick and choose from the entire unsold inventory), their website had all the details (CALPERS financing etc) and most of the information I gathered was from Internet only. Compared with Veneto and Avery I felt most comfortable with this building. Everyone's choices are individual, this fitted well with our financial constraints and satisfied our requirements regarding space, location and school

#4 - things were different when I bought-probably the first or second unit. Still the pricing is better today-mind you this is LCOR's first project in Manhattan. Use your judgement regarding the developer and sponsors etc. Once the building is 20% sold (to be called a condo legally) they generally do not negotiate.
NYC people like to pay for UES, UWS, proximity to park, river views, prestige etc. etc, so cheaper does not necessarily mean easy to sell-this building is still more expensive than old co-ops. Post 5 is mine too.

some typos earlier, but readers can figure out which posts are by the person who bought here

who bought in this building? how much were you able to get them to come down?

Keep tryin...... Remember:

bid low, bid low, bid low, bid low......

REPEAT

bid low, bid low, bid low, bid low......

#9 If you like a place and the nbhd make an offer. Everyone's timing is different if you try to make them come down now you might not go too far, once its 15% sold its called a condo and they do not negotiate much. The pricing is still reasonable-just compare with chelsea stratus (another new dev from LCOR)

#7 Just curious, does your post mean that if you had gone into contract today for a comparable unit that you went into awhile ago, that comparable unit would have cost you less?? If so, how much?

I thought that it was the case that it is less expensive to buy earlier in the process.

TO # 12 I meant pricing is still competitive compared to other offerings.
Buying earlier is generally better with new cons and now the cost is UP for sure.
The offering plan keeps getting revised (with price increases)once the building is eligible to be called condo.

They come down on price approx 2%. Basically their agents spin it anyway they want. If you come to them solo they dont have to split the commision with a co-broker so they push the builder to lower the price a tad just so they can make that sale.

They come down on price approx 2%. Basically their agents spin it anyway they want. If you come to them solo they dont have to split the commision with a co-broker so they push the builder to lower the price a tad just so they can make that sale.

does anyone know whether there are plans to build something on the north side of the building?

You can easily check that with the sales office. But most apartments face south, west or east
There was something in the offering about the sponsor buying certain Lot rights (did not apply to us-south facing apartment)

This building is puking its guts out!

Mel, what does that mean? I am considering bidding on a unit in there. I need all the insight I can get!!!

Gluck, sponsor is getting hungry to rid himself of remaining units. Buyers already looking to flip, competing against sponsor, both are price chopping.

Much leverage!

By the way, what size unit are you looking at? May be able to give you a few tips based on info passed on from friends who bought there.

Hey Mel,

Looking for an E-Line...

..and I want the builder to pay my closing costs...(all of it)

Thanks!!!

Have you made a respectable expiring offer that is contingent on their payment of all closing costs?

What are you waiting for?

i'm heading there at 1230 today

Let me know how it works out. Good luck!

Looked a bunch of e-lines today...still like the unit.

developers broker indicated there was "very little" wiggle room in the price because of the recent price cuts. He said he "may" be able to negotiate over mansion tax or transfer taxes, but thats it. I'd love ti big 7-8 percent below offer and fave developer assume all closing costs, but I think its likely a waste of time.

Why not make an expiring offer at asking, contingent upon payment of all closing costs?

Seems like you've been on a lot of site visits. You may have destroyed your leverage that way.

Best of luck!

Been there twice. And I'm not paying ask.

But your opinion is still much appreciated.

I'm in the envious position of have a good deal on my rental and not im a position where I "need" to buy.

gluck75,

don't even bother with charleston, the brokers are so dumb that they don't even know how to negotiate and won't budge. I feel sorry for the sponsor for hiring these brokers.

Wish I could bypass them and go straight to the Dev.

Are they obligated by low to show all offers to the dev?

They are obligated by their ethical code and by reason of their fiduciary duty to the developer as their client, gluck. But they are not obligated "by law" per se to show all offers to seller.

Well...that really sucks. Because I have a feeling if the broker doesn't like the offer, he won't show it.

Think of bidding with a "close in 30 days clause" to show im serious.

Gluck - I'm guessing you don't have a broker? If you did, your broker can demand to make your offer to the developer "in person" and demand proof that the offer was submitted in writing.

You may want to hire a broker solely for this purpose. You may be able to find a buyer's broker willing to take only 1-1.5% commission since he won't be doing any work at all. Would have to be from one of the smaller brokerage places because no one from Corcoran or Elliman has the brains or the hunger to think outside of the box and execute a deal like the one I'm describing. They're mostly lazy and incompetent.

Alternatively, you could casually mention to the seller's broker that you are going to hire a broker to make your bid for you. See if the thought of halving her commission scares her into being a bit more flexible.

Honestly, I gotta start charging for this advice. These are gems, people!

Gluck - thoughts on comment above?

I am confused as to why I would be unable to demand to present a bid to the developer myself? Why must a broker do so?

Gluck -
When you demand to present bid to the developer in person, developer's brokers (Sadoux and Sirignese and their ilk) will laugh until they pee.

However, if you have a broker, I believe broker is ENTITLED to present bid to seller in person. That's the difference.

Hope that clarifies

If you're not getting anywhere with your offer, it certainly can't hurt at some point to try with a broker. It doesn't sound as if they're going to give you much without one, and it doesn't sound like they are giving you more than they're giving others, many of whom probably have brokers. Ask around and find a good broker. It is at the negotiating level that I have always valued mine the most (although he's great all around, but I prefer to pick out my own properties to look at. I find my own views very fickle.)

aboutready, I haven't submitted yet...

Just gathering what the best approach is...

you need the developer's e-mail?

yes!!!

Gluck75 - Which Apt# are you interested in? I'm also interested in this bldng, and am thinking of going without a broker. Would be cool to learn from your experience. Also, I get the feeling that the brokers don't tell you about all the avlbl apts in the bldng, so, the buyers feel rushed. This is just based on the listings I see on streeteasy or prudential elliman which doesn't necessarily match up with what the brokers tell me.

This was the only building (from all I saw) where all the floor plans are online, the sales staff showed me pricing for all unsold units etc etc. Looks like you guys are bottom fishing, not genuinely interested. If you look serious then the broker behaves differently.

just bid already! according to spunky, market is up 2% in past few days

Bite me Digs!!!

If I feel the need to Rush in, then i'm likely not going to get the deal I want. Plus, thanks to you, my wife hates the location again!!!

Find me this apartment north of 59th and you'll make a nice commission!!!

Digs has already predicted that gluck will not pull the trigger

I've bidded on places through Digs before, so he knows I have it in me.

Digs, tell them about the place on the 81st and 1st...I mean, that was a pretty good deal!!!

2% seems a bit low

I was here last month, the sales staff didn't seem too knowledgeable.

Karennn-depends on who you see. Tim and Christopher are the ones to talk to.

Tim and Christopher do know there stuff, but i don't buy a word of what they say financially.

I say Tim and Chris are clueless as any other broker.

yea that place at 81st was a good one! Multiple bidz on that one wasnt there? I also liked the one on 90th with the terrace!

Im with your wife on Charleston though; she secretly paid me 200 bucks to say this on a public forum

We missed that one by 25k. Unreal.

I need to watch the wifes bank account closer!!!

Gluck, the suspense is killing me! Any news?

I know a woman trying to unload her condo here after buying just a few months ago. No takers and she's very upset. I've heard she's not the only one.

What line does she own and on what floor. Many of the lines face the back and do not have a great view or light. I will be closing soon on a unit and may be looking for more at the right price.

E line on a high floor with great view.

What is she asking? And why is she selling? Is it flip or a change in plans? E line is nice unit.

If you want, you can e-mail me at PeterSlip gmail.com and I'll put you in touch with a broker who will be happy to answer your questions about this apartment.

Didn't come out... that's PeterSlip -at- gmail.com

UNGH! Sorry again. I rarely e-mail! For the last time, my e-mail address is PeteSlipp -at- gmail.com. Sorry.

I think this building is a poor investment, and there are some really great deals to be had out there in other more attractive buildings if you look for them. The location is not that desirable, the noise level is above the average due to the buses and traffic on 34th (not to mention air quality), and once the taxes begin to kick in after a couple of years resale will be virually impossible when compared to the other condos in the vicinity... I would stay away from this one.

There is a large rental building across the street which rents out a $65 sq ft. The building is basically always fully rented and it faces the midtown tunnel exit.

looked at this building, the real estate taxes are terrible once the abatement is done. Totally agree that resale will be terrible !! As is, they can not sell out now. Noise happens to be not that bad, was in a few units, they are quiet. Views are also not that good.

I lived at 34th and 3rd after college for two years and was SICK of that location after 18 months. VERY busy and noisy due to the constant honking, fire engines, noobs outside the bars throwing stuff and screaming. Would agree with staying away from this building for any reason really...

Got your e-mail csn. Forwarded it onward. Let us know if it works out. Thanks.

The rental across the street is Anthem - lived there for 2 years. Location is great if you're 25 but that's about it. Agree with Noob above. brokersStink - you may have been there at a fortunate time; there's sirens at all hours of the day and night. Considered Charleston for a 2BR for my wife and I and potential family down the rode but couldn't imagine having a child in that location. Then with the pricing - forget it.

SlipperyPete...how come the resale of the e-line you are referring to isn't popping up on streeteasy? I am curious about it as well.

Thanks!!!

Apparently it wasn't an E line. It was a J line. I got my eggs mixed up with my juices.

No worries.

Is she having any luck?

Big difference between the E line and the J line. The J line faces the back of the building and has views of some ugly stuff. At least the layout is OK.

This J line was on a high floor and has great views. But ... it was just sold.

That must say something for the Charleston. That a resale could be done while the sponsor is still selling units is pretty good.

I live there and so far happy....

I still LOVE the E-Line

i think gluck, clucks..if this guy isn't going to buy when the price has already been chopped to hell (less than 1k per square foot) and he can get a 5 year IO for 5%, he is never going to pull the trigger.

csn - J line apartment was flipped and sold at a loss. It certainly "says something for the Chazz," but probably not what you think!

Billnew...I haven't bid on the property because my wife is not in love with the idea of moving back to Murray Hill. Also, I believe most of the E's have sold in recent weekend.

Also...a 5 year IO is NOT 5% for a Jumbo. Perhaps that deal is available in Fantasyland.

the building is tough, the fact that is has not sold out and is done, they have lowered prices, only tells of what is to come when someoen does try to resell !

gluck, there is an E available, 16E, was there today.

What did he quote you for it?

I just saw it on the list. Was looking at something else. I think is was over $1.5m. Great view from up there.

wait another week or two, the price will drop !!!

Thanks for that.

Gluck your playing with fire!

im not playing with anything...I'm not bidding on it.

I had considered bidding on a unit with south/east views. Currently the unit gets a good shot at the river. It just occured to me that the huge Solow project is being built within that general vicinity. Does anyone know if those nice views that the Charlestons southern side now enjoy will be hindered in the future due to the Solow project?

Hard to say about the views since the final approvals are not yet in. In fact it looks like it will be awhile before anything gets settled. It will probably end up in court. That being said, if you are planning living in this place less than 3 years you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise you could be taking a chance. Nice unit though.

has the flipping begun? seems like a bunch of resales listed today?

what new listings are you referrin to SUZ ?

if you look at the active listings on streeteasy, the last 4 look like resales (listed by sotheby's, given douglas elliman is the broker for the building)? are these not resales?

They sure are. Maybe all owned by the same investor. Two of them are studios and there has not been any studios available for a long time since they sold off at the beginning. There is flipping going on in all condos. Look at the one on CPW where they bought it for like $4.5 million and flipped it immediately for $7 million. It worked for a while but not working as well now since RE in Manhattan has somewhat slowed down.

Anyone just tuning in to this thread that hasn't followed it may want to see SlipperyPete's post from 4 weeks ago:

"csn - J line apartment was flipped and sold at a loss. It certainly "says something for the Chazz," but probably not what you think!"

yeah, saw that... the interesting thing is the prices look like they are below what developer is asking for unsold inventory (and seller pays transfer taxes since it's a resale). agree that this trend will continue as the other new construction starts to close and "flippers" (a lot of brokers!) start looking to flip. timing is everything, and it's not a particularly good strategy in this environment. i posted somewhere (can't remember where) that this too should contribute to a softer market, so if buyers are patient, market should continue to turn in our favor.

The prices on these units were just about the same as what the developer was asking for prior to this week, it looks like the seller droped their asking price; this is interesting as I took a tour of both units a week ago and was told by the broker that he was "expecting an offer at asking price later that day", hmmmm, something tells me that isnt the first time he has used that line....regardless, the one bedroom on 18 is a nice, new unit with great light and probably a good value given the obvious desire to sell quickly. Regardless, I have found the agents at the Charleston good to work with and if you are serious it would probably be best to explore both options...

Charleston brokers are full of crap
They are not getting any offers at these prices.

The prices are under 1200 p/foot...what are you hoping for on new construction?

The views on the southern side won't be affted by the Solow project since it starts at 36th street. Of course, on the northern and eastern side there will certainly be restricted river views. That being said, a bit of vitality over by the river along with a 2nd ave subway stop on the corner may well help if someone is looking 10-15 years down the line.

I recently viewed apartments at The Charleston. I like everything except the taxes after abatement. It seems high at $2k per month for 2 bedrooms. How have other buyers got comfortable with point?

By this time next yr glh222, 1200 p/foot may seem very overpriced

JimmyT: Probably because the people who bought in this building plan on selling before or as the abatement runs out. Remember the abatement helps the developer, not the purchaser. The perceived tax savings for the purchaser are offset by the higher sales price that the developer gets to charge for the unit. Then when it comes time for the original purchaser to sell, the increased monthly tax burden due to the abatement rolling off hurts the property's value. All these people are walking into traps and they don't even know it.