Squeaking by on $300,000 - The New World

I can't understand how people can be so irrational about a house. This woman would be financially fine in a less expensive house in the town, why be a slave to 4,000 sq. ft.? And how can people argue that high home prices are good for the nation? Inflated housing prices created this type of debt slavery across all income levels.

boo hoo.. cry me a river.
although the "mom jeans" deserve all the sympathy...

She certainly would be better without that huge property but could she sell it & at what price; that's the problem, it seems.

These people who bare all for a newspaper story amaze me. This story did get lots of the details right, per ACRIS and the Westchester County Clerk's site. The ex-husband is apparently renting here in town.

Why bother to sell it? Give the keys to the bank and walk away.

sympathy on all fronts from me, tho especially re the mom jeans--somebody tell her!!

"A Manhattan psychologist at two elite private schools discusses how sudden financial insecurity affects children who are accustomed to having the best of everything. Don't end childhood, he says, but shift it to the new reality. "

for some it'll prove useful, a crash course on reality. many will be exposed to the stress it causes on their parents though. my sympathy goes to those nannies, gardeners and the like that are losing their jobs cause of the crisis.

""A Manhattan psychologist at two elite private schools discusses how sudden financial insecurity affects children who are accustomed to having the best of everything."

Yes, its called growing up and not being little sh*ts!

This is probably the best thing that could happen to those kids.

It skips right over the part about her divorce, lest we start to lose any sympathy for this broad. Since women choose to end 90% of all heterosexual relationships (including marriages), this women brought a big part of this mess on herself. She's trying to have the life she's always dreamed of, without the responsibility of being a wife. A house that big is for a large, intact family. It can't be maintained on $150K a year salary, a discretionary bonus (she may not get anywhere near $75K this year), even when subsidized by an outrageous $75K in child support.

Who's saying that a 10 year old needs a cell phone of ANY kind? Who's the parent & who's the adult? Keeping up with the Joneses taken to it's most absurd extreme.

"women choose to end 90% of all heterosexual relationships (including marriages), this women brought a big part of this mess on herself"

that include women that want a divorce cause of cheating, beating or other abuses?

"even when subsidized by an outrageous $75K in child support. "

issue here is, she's planning for that child support to be paid even if the husband losses his job? these families are still depending on 2 incomes, even after the divorce.

imho her biggest mistake was to buy his 1/2 of the house at the peak of the mkt. that $ could be better used for retirement and college savings.

From all indications, she's skating right on the edge & saving $200 at the hardresser probably isn't going to keep her solvent; she's one "ooops" away from a catastrophe.

this is the reason why the rest of the country hates NY and its surroundings...

some people just like to hate

some people deserve to be hated

AnonMan: this is why the rest of the world hates America in general. Where even the poor people are fat.

No one deserves to be hated. Doesn't get anyone anywhere.

But this woman should have let the house go long ago. She is not going to ride out the recession. She can maybe pull off the balancing act another year or two, but what then? She's already raiding investment accounts for $50k in expenses. The biggest and most logical expense to cut is the house. Unless her income increases dramatically in the next year or two, she's going to drain all of her remaining assets trying to support the stupid house.

"that include women that want a divorce cause of cheating, beating or other abuses?"

Yes. The "Four A's", as they are called - adultery, alcoholism, abuse, and addiction - are shown to not responsible for as many divorces as you would think. The over-whelming reason for divorce, according to studies? "We grew apart", which is fem-speak for "I got bored".

"imho her biggest mistake was to buy his 1/2 of the house at the peak of the mkt. that $ could be better used for retirement and college savings."

You got that right. She's sounds like the narcissistic type who feels she "deserves" to "have it all". Well, you got it all now, sister!

"The over-whelming reason for divorce, according to studies? "We grew apart", which is fem-speak for "I got bored"."

how depressing!

My very favorite is "alienation of affection".

Which reminds me ... I have to start having my answering service lead with "alanhart is emotionally unavailable right now; would you like to leave a message?"

"mental cruelty" is a close second.

Oh, right. Men never get bored of their wives and go find younger women to screw.

Men commit disproportionate adultery. Show us some of your clearly biased studies, Dwayne. If you can, because I think you made them up.

""mental cruelty" is a close second."

i'm guilty of that. each time my hubby dreams about buying something that's lovely (but i'm afraid too expensive so it curtails our ability to save for retirement & college) he claims i depress him by saying "nice, but too expensive". hey, i'm not letting him dream.

I thought "we grew apart" is fem-speak for "He grew more adulterous, alcoholic, abusive, and addicted."

lol

A fabulous argument for staying married...
Mom is a kick ass producer$$$.
If dad did the same or better...
They living the dream...top notch cell phones and expert dye jobs as far as the eye can see.
Prehaps our society has lost it's focus.
Wouldn't the family's well being always be the first priority?
Don't get me wrong some folks need to be divorced but, 50%?
So now the dream has been transformed into a well appointed nightmare.
I feel for Ms. Steins, she looks like she lived a life of crossing every t and dotting every i.
She looks like she played by the rules and, a divorce has trapped her in a guilded cage.
The sale today would most likely result in a great loss. What can you do but, ride the storm.
If you love your spouse...take a moment and and tell them today.

"If you love your spouse...take a moment and and tell them today. "

i will

"Oh, right. Men never get bored of their wives and go find younger women to screw. "

They certainly do. But they rarely end their marriages over it. Statistically speaking, incidentally, female infidelity has nearly caught up w/ male infidelity. For every guy screwing his secretary, their is a wife going with the pool boy or her personal trainer!

You mean the tennis pro or the milkman (who cometh).

"Wouldn't the family's well being always be the first priority?"

In most cultures, throughout history, it has been. But not in the West, not for the past 40 yrs or so.

Dwayne, that IS ending their marriages. They can be passive aggressive about it, but that is a declaration of wanting out of a marriage. Where's your studies? Because you're a big liar.

"They can be passive aggressive about it, but that is a declaration of wanting out of a marriage. "

don't buy that. for me those men are saying "i want more wild sex more frequently"

No, they are detaching from their marriages and responsibilities in a way that will force someone else to take "responsibility" for ending the marriage.

so maybe in a marriage men get more responsibility than perks? which are the perks of marriage for a regular guy? (frequent and readily available sex has to be top 10 imho).

"Where's your studies? Because you're a big liar."

They're all over the internet. Start w these:

Margaret F. Brinig and Douglas A. Allen, "'These Boots Are Made For Walking": Why Most Divorce Filers Are Women" American Law and Economics Review 2‑1 (2000):

John Tierney, "A New Look at the Realities of Divorce," New York Times, July 11, 2000.

Sanford Braver, Marnie Whitley, and Christine Ng, "Who Divorced Whom? Methodological and Theoretical Issues," Journal of Divorce and Remarriage 20.

"If you love your spouse...take a moment and and tell them today. "

Even Dwayne finds this sentimental...

" I thought "we grew apart" is fem-speak for "He grew more adulterous, alcoholic, abusive, and addicted."

Nope. "We grew apart" is definately chick-speak for "I'm BORED!". Here are some other famous chick sayings, and their English translations:

"I need space" = "I want to sleep with other people"

"I love you but I'm not in love with you" - Drop the words 'I love you but' to understand this sentence.

adn what's wrong with that? never hurts to tell the man the whole family appreciates his efforts.

Not one of those papers addresses adultery, Dwayne. They're all about child custody as a bigger risk factor for men than for women.

Abstract for Birnig (despite your claim, two of your articles are not actually freely accessible).

"Because of the financial and social hardship faced after divorce, most people assume that generally husbands have instigated divorce since the introduction of no-fault divorce. Yet women file for divorce and are often the instigators of separation, despite a deep attachment to their children and the evidence that many divorces harm children. Furthermore, divorced women in large numbers reveal that they are happier than they were while married. They report relief and certainty that they were right in leaving their marriages. This fundamental puzzle suggests that the incentives to divorce require a reexamination, and that the forces affecting the net benefits from marriage may be quite complicated, and perhaps asymmetric between men and women. This paper considers women's filing as rational behavior, based on spouses' relative power in the marriage, their opportunities following divorce, and their anticipation of custody."

No discussion of why women are filing for divorce in the first place. So you have not proved your point.

The fact of the matter is, divorce is the quickest path to bankruptcy.

Steins may not be on the express train to the courthouse, but she's definitely on the downtown local. In order to avoid bankruptcy, one of four things has to happen:

1. She manages to find a job at roughly triple what she's making now.
2. She manages to find a Prince Charming who'll sweep in, marry her, and fix her finances.
3. She reconciles with her ex-husband.
4. She folds her cards, gets that monkey of a house off her back, moves herself and the kids back to a nice condo or co-op in Queens (near her parents, who presumably still live there, for cheap child care), and realizes that THIS is the lifestyle of a $150K-with-maybe-a-bonus single mother with kids.

Assuming she keeps her job (with all this publicity), she doesn't have to go Queens-drastic.
Presumably she has some equity left, so she doesn't have to pay the bank anything.

1) Sell the house
2) Rent something in Harrison - plenty on the market
3) She can get by with an aupair, no need for FT nanny if kids are in school

3. She reconciles with her ex-husband.

matt, he's re marrying, which means more kids for him to feed down the road. not pretty.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/08/style/weddings-laura-mackenzie-edward-steins.html

wow Dwayne, you sound like a guy who's been severely burned. divorced?

"Since women choose to end 90% of all heterosexual relationships (including marriages)"

well,it's true, man has more to lose by divorcing (though sometimes it's the woman) - 1/2 their assets, child support. so they would rather check out emotionally and fu*k around with their secretaries while married, rather than get divorced.

if the man treats her right, I see no reason why she would want to divorce, unless her initial goal was to marry for money (prenup anyone?) It takes two to tango.

nyc10023, good catch! I had George E. (from the Westchester deeds) but passed by some G. Edwards I saw somewhere else, and thought both parents were dead since Laura and brothers were splitting the Douglaston house. Back to ACRIS for him....

It's unclear what happened to the marriage but I think NYCMatt is right; she's on the road to ruin. I'd say that she's spoiled by having all the trappings of great financial success (without the money to sustain it) but we don't know where she'd be at money-wise if she sold/could sell the house. She definitely should have downsized in '06 after the divorce but hindsight is always 20-20. Now she's in deep denial about the financial peril she's in.

What site do you use for Westchester deeds?

There's no good time to divorce, but it's pretty sad that the youngest kid was only 5 when his parents split. I have a 5 year old who would be devastated. It gives some color as to why she may have sucked up the cost of keeping the house and making sure that at least one variable didn't change.

On the other hand, kids are resilient, and I'm not sure that keeping the house was necessary.

It's http://ccpv.westchesterclerk.com. Just the free index, not the records themselves.

I've ponied up the $20 daily access a few times, but the dates etc. are usually good enough.

nyc10023--do you think that wedding announcement concerns her ex-husband? It says the groom is 30. Laura is 47. Unless there's a mistake in the announcement, seems a wee bit unlikely.

princeton, math skills? the announcement is from 1992/11/08

She's not really squaking by on $300k. She makes $150k + a bonus ($25k now) and then she takes $50k out of her investment fund ($90k gross to get that $50k) and $75k in child support ($135k in husband's earningings). So, she is really sqeaking by on $400k....not a good situation for long-term success here.

I got the sense that she's not "earning" $50K on investments, but rather pulling $50K out of her investments.

admin, nyc10023--my bad; will promise to read more carefully next time . . .

She can downsize once the kids are out of school and the $75K goes away. Like the ex did: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/47734-coop-300-west-108th-street-manhattan-valley-new-york.

she can become a maid in 5-10 years...

NYCMatt, I think it's your #2: "She manages to find a Prince Charming who'll sweep in, marry her, and fix her finances." That's why she agreed to go public with her story, answering the question of NWT: "These people who bare all for a newspaper story amaze me. ..." She went public to find the Prince Charming. ha, ha.
I agree with all here who point out that divorce is the road to financial ruin. For such a smart gal, she hasn't thought this through very well. Divorce generally leads to a big change in lifestyle; little to do with the recession. Article is mixing the issues; her predicament likely has more to do with not facing the facts of divorce than with the recession.

If *he* hits the papers, whining about the lousy $75K, we can suggest he trade down to a studio.

I wish her luck on finding Prince Charmant. I'm sorry but I don't know what's so appealing about a woman with 3 children who's on Queer Street; sad but true, I fear.

OK, so now that I've read the old wedding announcement more CAREFULLY, there's some interesting things to glean from it: Laura and her husband were both in their early 30s, well-educated, from comparable backgrounds and already established in their careers when they married. Presumably, they had even been in a relationship for a few years before they tied the knot and gotten to know each other well. They did everything seemingly right, they had everything going for them, and even after having children they couldn't hold it together for more than 15 years (admin--am I doing the math better now?)

For many college-educated men and women now in their 40s/50s, this is how they thought they should cross their "t"s and dot their "i"s to achieve that enlightened and successful long-term marriage and create a family in which their children would have even greater opportunities for success. Sort of sad really . . . Since things seemed like they could only keep getting better, I guess the "for better OR worse" part just seemed like excess, anachronistic language.

evnyc said:

"Furthermore, divorced women in large numbers reveal that they are happier than they were while married."

I've seen many studies that show there is no difference, for men and women, in divorce vs. staying married. This is consistent with other studies on happiness that show that people tend to return to a "set point", and even large, one-off events such as winning the lottery do not provide a sustained increase in happiness.

"No discussion of why women are filing for divorce in the first place. So you have not proved your point".

LOL. I've given you a paper that says "Why women file for most divorces" and you claim i have not "proved" my point? I am under no obligation to prove ANYTHING to you - you will cling to whatever pre-conceived notions or fantasies you wish to. I gave you three citations within a few minutes of your request. But I am not your gopher - find your own. All the evidence points to the same conclusions (that is, all the third-party, scientific meta-studies...as with any other gender-related question, there are plenty of self-serving, conclusory "studies" at there as well...if you can't distinguish between the two, it's a reflection of your intelligence, its not my obligation to supplment it).

This is a no win situation w/ girls like you. If I don't hand you an analysis that says "SORRY, EVNYC, HERE IS SPECICALLY WHY YOU WRONG", I have somehow failed a phony non-standard that shifts at your whim. But if I DO spend my day providing compelling studies, the other path women like you go down - like clock-work - is shaming language. I already see some of it here! "Wow, you know some studies? You must be a real loser. You must have been DIVORCED! (Like this is somehow a stigma in a country where 50% of all marriages fail. LOL). You probably live in your mother's basement. I'll bet you can't get a date. I'll bet you are GAY! I'll bet you have small genitalia. Blah blah blah".

Sorry, its all been tried before and there is nothing clever or unique about the line of attack you gals are using. The evidence is there. Anyone who's ever went to high school and college knows that women are fickle, women end nearly all relationships, etc. Why should we pretend this changes upon marriage?

The biggest evidence that women are the leading cause of divorce is that men are avoiding marriage - and the attendant potential financial disaster from asset division, vaginamony, child support, etc. For the first time in recorded history, more than half of all women are living alone. The men with means who do marry, insist on a pre-nup. The game is up. Divorce at a whim, with free assets and $75K in child support, has become the norm for american/western women, and the men know it. Why do think there are so many guys going to the Ukraine, Poland and other places to find wives?? The gig is pretty much up for western women.

Any guys here who avoided marriage - or insisted on a pre-nup - to avoid the divorce scam?

"if the man treats her right, I see no reason why she would want to divorce"

LOL. Women don't get bored with men who treat them right, huh?

While I don't like to think of myself as a hater, and for her kids' sake I wish her all the luck in the world, I'm surprised that no one has picked up on her job as a VP with a major credit card company.

I hope she doesn't have to file for bankrupty and get hoisted on her own pitard. The revisions in bankruptcy law her industry forced through Congress makes it pretty awful to go into bankruptcy in this country. Of course the usurious rates and fees that the credit card companies were able to charge to credit-challenged customers until the recent changes under the Obama administration have driven an awful lot of people into bankruptcy. Should she be concerned about her bonus now that there are at least minimal limits on usury?

"I don't know what's so appealing about a woman with 3 children who's on Queer Street"

At her age and with that FUPA, NOTHING. But then, no one ever said women were logical!

Dwayne_Pipe: I really like your posts from time to time, so I kind of suspect you're pulling a
"wonderboy" here, right? Your're setting yourself up as a misogynist with a severe chip on your shoulder (rather than a fabulously wealthy, attractive, and hip gayster) just to bait us--to get the SE blood boiling and some great back and forth banter going, right?

why oh why do people subject themselves to something like this. wonder how her employer and co workers feel about reading about her salary and bonus? particularly the ones who got lowered even more than she did.

Judging by the divorce cases I see (those that end up in a fight; most don't) it's pretty even-handed these days. Marital property is split according to contribution to those assets. Each keeps their own non-marital property. The lower earner may get alimony for a limited time if the marriage kept them out of the job market. Child support is divvied up. Each side still moans and complains, but that's only natural.

Dwayne_Pipe, I'd say there's little danger of your having to deal with it all again.

"just to bait us--to get the SE blood boiling and some great back and forth banter going, right?"

Moi?? Try to get SE blood boiling?? Whatever gave you THAT idea?

OK, you got me. But I do also believe that marriage has become a raw deal for men and think men should not marry or have children in the U.S. See anything said by Tom Leykis on the topic.

"they couldn't hold it together for more than 15 years... admin--am I doing the math better now?"

babe, i LOVE to see people doing well in math. lets see, they divorced in 2006 and married at the end of 1992. probably they didn't make it to their 14th anniversary. so you are correct.

"if the man treats her right, I see no reason why she would want to divorce"

Other than the pool boy or the electrician has tighter abs and a bigger c*ck ...

"has tighter abs and a bigger c*ck .."

that's included in "treat her right"

I don't think the pool boy or electrician would have a bigger check. Those are relatively low-paying fields.

dwayne i'd guess you haven't read the price of motherhood?

wow AR, my own mom could have been the author

did this influence you in deciding to have only 1?

Another reason why not to get divorced is what you get from this story. My wife and I have already been through the mill at a very young stage of our marriage. I wonder what could have been so bad in their lives where they HAD to have the divorce and break up the three kids.

Lets try to get a RE view in also. I see she defintely got greedy with the house and thought she would get rich off it eventually. She did not think things through for sure. And she could defintely cut things back like the pool and gardner but then she would not be keeping up appearances I suppose.

"Married working moms are also punished--they pay the highest taxes on earned income in America."

yep, specially true in high cost of living areas given that the fed, state & local tax rates nor FICA taxes adjust for cost of living. also the out of pocket expenses of working (childcare the biggest, they are a tax on working) cost more.

Dwayne--"men should not marry or have children in the U.S." Yup, much better to find an obedient, grateful, gorgeous, sexy and thin girl . . . ummm . . . I mean woman, from the former Eastern bloc or Asia.

Here's a cautionary tale, though:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/29/nyregion/sex-lies-and-videotape-and-murder.html

Guess once those mail-order brides have seen the lights of "Sex and the City," it's hard to keep them down on the farm in the multi-milliondollar homestead with the boring, physically unappealing and sexually underwhelming old American man . . . . hmmmmm?

"If you love your spouse...take a moment and and tell them today. "

Best advice on here. Tell them everyday.

"Yup, much better to find an obedient, grateful, gorgeous, sexy and thin girl . . . ummm . . . I mean woman, from the former Eastern bloc or Asia."

latinas are also obedient and loyal. treat them like a human being (they are used to chauvinistic guys) and you will be rewarded.

i have to agree with CC - why do folks put themselves under this kind of a microscope? and if so, za za zou yourself up and put on a cute outfit for the historical record. Princeton, did you skim - how could you miss that was the wedding announcement from the early 90s?

OK! OK! YES! I confess! I SKIMMED. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

"I shall not respond to an SE post unless I have carefully read the link."
"I shall not respond to an SE post unless I have carefully read the link."
"I shall not respond to an SE post unless I have carefully read the link."
"I shall not respond to an SE post unless I have carefully read the link."
"I shall not respond to an SE post unless I have carefully read the link."
+ 95 times

Is it OK for me to go back to my desk now?

And I have to already MC that I did not go thru the entire file of photos - the moms was quite lovely in her work ensem....so unfair call out of PB by moi

All is good . . .

"Married working moms are also punished--they pay the highest taxes on earned income in America."

yep, specially true in high cost of living areas "

LOL! How is that possible that working moms pay higher taxes than divorced dads? The mom gets tax deductions for the kids; the father does not. But the dad, as noted above, gets to pay $75K AFTER-TAX money in child support. That's about $135K to him. Is that tax deductible? Of course not.

Your comment reminds me of Hitlary Clinton's comment that "women are the real victims of war" b/c they are left as widows. LOL! So the men who's DEATH made them widows aren't the real victims??

For the record I'd like to state that I think this woman is in a bad way financially but I thought that she had a FABULOUS figure in that one photo with the kids on the sidewalk; I didn't look at all the photos, either. I don't get the comment about 'Mom jeans' 'cause when you've got a figure like that, you can wear whatever you like.

admin, i couldn't even finish it, it disturbed me on so many levels. there it sits on our bookshelf, prominently, and i vow i'll get to it any day now.

i would have liked another child, on many levels, but financially it would have been very difficult. and difficulties of any sort, financial included, are tough on a marriage. and a failed marriage is tough on both parties, but would have been devastating to us economically.

"Married working moms are also punished--they pay the highest taxes on earned income in America."

dwayne, we are comparing a 2 income household versus a 1 income household. as a working spouse your 1st earned dollar gets taxed at the highest marginal rate (fed, state and local) that your husband's last earned dollar gets taxed at. then she also contributes to SS while if not contributing she will have 1/2 of the SS of the husband. on top of that there's no gov paid childcare (as in many european countries)... so after doing the math, in expensive areas it might not pay to work for a wage as a spouse (this is not the case if the wife works but earns $ through capital gains, for ex). that simple. she also works to earn the employers part of healthcare (if it's offered, average is 3/4 of annual premiums) but doesn't need it if the husband's employers offers health insurance.

btw, a 2 income household gets the same deduction for kids as a 1 income household.

There's no way you can maintain that lifestyle on 150k. Heck, you can't maintain a 2bd rental on 150k. 3 kids, big house, small job? It doesn't add up. Sell the house for a flat profit and move south where things are cheaper. Get out of the high tax/high expenses states.

AR, we decided on only 1 kid for exactly the same reasons. if we eventually move to a more family friendly country (for ex, netherlands) we would be happy having another. here, the conditions are not there (at least given our situation).

"Get out of the high tax/high expenses states."

yep, we are considering it. it might be a good protection given that federal deficits are going to keep on increasing (& since tax rates do not adjusting for cost of living). an issue is that those states also have unfunded pensions to be paid (but also do NY, NJ, CT, ...)

"LOL. Women don't get bored with men who treat them right, huh?"

Man Dwayne, you're really messed up if you really think women/men divorce, even when there are children involved, because they are BORED. Sheez.

"Is that tax deductible? Of course not."

Alimony is tax deductible and alimony income is taxable.

"For the record I'd like to state that I think this woman is in a bad way financially but I thought that she had a FABULOUS figure in that one photo with the kids on the sidewalk"

Good for her. That means nothing, however, when it comes to her getting off the train to Bankruptcyville.

She's in her late 40s. 50 is just around the corner. There aren't very many rich Prince Charmings in the market for an aging soccer mom with three kids, a big sloppy dog, standing in financial quicksand.

"Man Dwayne, you're really messed up if you really think women/men divorce, even when there are children involved, because they are BORED. Sheez."

Indeed.

A more accurate term is "lazy".

Any guys wanna respond to my point earlier: How many guys on here have either put of marriage for fear of the financial consequences of divorce, or insisted on a pre-nup longer than the Warren Commission report?

Not Mr. NYC10023, he turned down my offer of a pre-nup.

Back to the RE focus: their home in Harrison was bought for $1,590,000 in 2000 according to Trulia. She shouldn't be underwater, and may have a great deal of equity. I think she needs to sell, rent in Harrison. Done.