William Beaver House

yea... i looked there too but just didn't understand how anyone down there in financial district is charging so much. i feel like all the new developers down there are trying to ride the high priced new condo frenzy in the other manhattan neighborhoods. i wasn't sold though. even a few months ago, there was potential appeal to the financial district because bldgs there were priced relatively lower per sq ft, but not anymore and i don't get it.

I don't get it either. And the neighborhood is a mess. There is sooooo much construction giong on & they are saying the worst is yet to come. I mean, these idiots are buying preconstruction at 1375/sq foot, it's hilarious.

F'in genious's. $40 Billion getting poured into the Financial District over the next 3 years.

$40 BILLION.

Do you understand what kind of investment that is. Even if the waste 30% of that it will still be a fabulous place.

Those who do not understand what investing is should not apply. Those who are savvy and understand how to put up with a measley year of construction and reap the rewards after, will do well.

When I bought 2 years ago in the Financial District for $500 a sq ft everyone was laughing at me, saying no one would ever come down there.

Guess what, now my neighbors are Tiffany's, BMW, Hermes, Thomas Pink, and rumors of Chanel and Prada.

Now I can sell my place for $900 a sq ft, guess who is laughing.

And I still believe the best is yet to come down there, wall street is the new 5th avenue. And if you dont believe me come back downtown in 2 years and then we will talk.

ONCE AGAIN $40 BILLION BEING INVESTED - $40 BILLION!!!!!!!

Do you know how stupid you sound when you have to repeat yourself with 40 billion, I mean 40 billion just think 40 billion. 40 billion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True about the 40 billion dollars. The DOT has already admitted they have wasted a lot of money on construction. Actually of the 40 billion a very large chunk is going to the world trade center, MTA, Goldman Sachs getting huge incentives & several other financial firms getting huge incentives to build. Sounds like a commercial ad up there from a broker..............It will always be a crowded area with tourists, people living here & working down here. And go ahead and sell your place for 900/sq ft. Look at all the other listings down here that aren't moving at all. It's not 1 year of contruction, it's years of construction idiot!

That 40 billion isn't dedicated to just the wall street area, it's for all of downtown. It includes the area from Houston street & south. Have you seen the great water main project on Houston street that will continue through 2010????? Very pricey. That project which has included replacing all the water mains from Houston street & south will cost quite a lot! There are also several other projects in Chinatown, South Street seapport, Tribeca & Soho.
Get your facts straight.

Ya you are right about 39.9 Billion will be going into just pipes.

Genious.

Every month the sidewalks are getting more and more packed on the weekends. If you are not aware of the changes that are going on Downtown and the progress it is your own fault and missed opportunity.

Oh sorry it is actually $1000 a sq ft. Not $900 - my mistake.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sales/wall-street-manhattan/

And yes places are definitely selling. I went yesterday to a new development first offering project and out of 30 listings there were only 3 left. The office and selling opened on Thursday, I had an appointment on Friday.

"It will always be a crowded area with tourists, people living here & working down here. And go ahead and sell your place for 900/sq ft. Look at all the other listings down here that aren't moving at all. It's not 1 year of contruction, it's years of construction idiot!"

Ok crowded area with tourists, people living here & working here. hmmm ya that sucks, after all i live in New York City, I wouldnt want that stuff around me. That doesnt happen in any desireable place.

Listings are moving it is mostly new construction so it takes a little time to work off 100-200 units. But they are definitely moving.

Ya construction sucks, improvements to neighborhoods suck, i wouldnt want that either, i wouldnt want anyone to invest in new facilities or projects in my neighborhood, I just want it to continue to deteriorate because i dont want to be inconvienced by a random block having a crane. After all this is New York City that doesnt happen anywhere else but downtown.

Anybody know what is going on with this place? Prices are no longer available on Streeteasy or the website. Also, the pictures on the website have been cleaned up a bit (all the sexy 20-somethings are gone). Curbed says corcoran is out - where these places not selling?

Anybody know what is going on with this place? Prices are no longer available on Streeteasy or the website. Also, the pictures on the website have been cleaned up a bit (all the sexy 20-somethings are gone). Curbed says corcoran is out - where these places not selling?

It's a dirty-sounding name.

You can scream 40 Billion all you want. It doesn't change the fact that all of the downtown "luxury buildings" are dumps that are jazzed up with fancy names. The luxury finishes are smoke and mirrors, as they all should be called "World Trade Center View" apartments, and the biggest "amenity" is 20 years of construction noise and dust.

they raised the prices which is probably why they came off the site. in my opinion, the prices are rediculous. i personally, can't understand the need for 24 hour room service in an apartment building unless it's being used for out of town visitors. you have a kitchen and tons of places with delivery. seems like the prices of the units are paying for hyped up amenities

##4/8. Its spelled "genius", genius.

yes and #8/9/4 whats up with the "ya"stuff-you are totally annoying!! Those high end stores are simply for the convenience of the bankers who will take their purchases home to Fifth/Park Avenue or Soho/Tribecca. Smart marketing by the retailers who want to cash in when these guys go out for a lunchtime stroll. Wives/girlfriends aren't going to live down there. But "ya", you will. Good Luck!

I love the nostalgia here -- the thread was started 7 months ago when $1375 per square foot in FiDi was staggering. But now, both William Beaver and the new W hotel have both broken the $2000 per square foot number. Wow. In only 7 months!

Yeah but you haven't been reading the part where most have been stating that prices will be going down.It's not when they will be going down but how much. Most are forecasting anywhere from 20 to 50%. Now these people are in the know of course. They have been predicting the decrease for the past tow years and more have jumped on the band wagon since August.

Prices are even higher now even with new competition from 75 Wall and the W. Pretty strong positive Financial District market signs despite the stock market drop on Wall Street.

Has anybody seen this building? It's about the ugliest thing that's been built in some time. I walk by everyday and keep thinking that they are going to do something to fix those awful looking painted yellow patches. But they don't.

William Beaver prices are in the sky. And people are buying, even though the target demographic is young Wall Streeters who are theoretically suffering. All the smart money types seem to be comfortable with their housing investments, what does that say?

William Beaver still doing well, still hard to credibly claim doomsday at all.

FiDi is the new Tribeca.

Another development for jerks.

So how is Wall Street condo development doing?

All you who post about declines in the prime condo market, give us some specific recent anecdotes.

Well, so much for bullishness in the stock market.

Anyone know about this development? Are they turning it to rentals and cutting down on ammenities?

They're screwed--euros are going to pull out, no jobs/bonuses on wall street...they should be nimble (like a beaver) and unload some of the remaining supply for 50% off this black friday!

I see they have started closings, but many units still in inventory and very, very high prices. This development was meant for a Wall Street that went away with the demise of Bear and Lehman. Have they started discounting prices to reflect today's reality?

Anyone know if people are walking from their contracts given the ridiculously high prices?

I see that the recent December closings show prices paid ranging from 13-16% off asking.

You should walk away. This is time to save your money. If you close, it's going to be an ongoing drain on your resources. Renting is the way to go.

Again, to play the devil's adovocate, why would you walk away from an apartment you love, IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT--although you might be able to get it for 50% or 80% off a couple of years from now? William Beaver is VERY, very, very nice & unique, and, despite the high pricing per sf, it doesn't give me as much "over-priced feeling" as other developments usually do.

Not everyone is into outlet pricing, although looking for bargains may be the smartest financial move. Once again, why would you assume that everyone should be saving/renting/waiting?

80% off means that a $2MM apartment sells for 400K. You think so?

if you really think apartments are going to be selling for 80% off, that means that a $10 million apartment would be selling for $2 million. You really think that it's possible to buy a $2 million apartment now that you would like as much as apartments on the market for $10 million that you could buy in a couple years? And who exactly are these people not into "outlet pricing?" These people prefer to pay more rather than less? those must be some strange people.

I can tell you not everyone is into "outlet pricing". Frankly, I don't care if save a few bucks by going to the outlets - there is a reason things are at outlets - they didn't sell at the store. I would much rather pay full price at the store and have a full selection and have a nice, professenial help me with my shopping than go to an outlet and have to hunt through clothes stuffed onto racks in a store with not so nice surroundings - call me foolish or wasteful, but frankly (and I really am not trying to sound arrogant here) I make enough that I don't need to shop at outlets and don;'t care if I can get the same pants/shirt/sweater/etc in an outlet for 30% less. If I see something I like at a store and it is on sale, that's great - but I don't spend my time shopping around looking for the same item for 30% off.

As for real estate - it's possible housing prices in NYC will go down in the next years (I'm not convinced there will be a dramatic decline in housing prices in NYC - it's possible but not assured). Having said that, long term, real estate is ALWAYS a good buy. If you buy an apartment and think you want out in 3-4 years, you are taking a gamble by buying now that prices will go down. However, even if the price does go down, you will get a good tax deduction and a nice place to live for that time. I have bought an apartment that I plan to live in for 10 years or so. There is virtually no set of circumstances that I can think of in which buying will not make sense (at least financially). There is no way real estate prices in NY will be lower 10 years from now. And even i they were, I will be getting a nice income tax deduction and have had a place to live. If I rented, I would have no asset (the apartment itself) in 10 years and no tax deduction.

I grew up about 30 minutes from Woodbury Common and when that opened up you could get good deals. Not you can get crap and it isin't worth it you can do better at Barneys when they are on sale and have a better in store experience than going to the warehouse on 20th when surly security guards and no service. They make stuff specially for outlets these days. Basically people think that the environment is supposed to be cheap so the prices are cheap, when in reality they aren't and you are just being taken advantage of because of your gullability.

by the way nyc1234 it can't always be good to buy real estate, yes over 10 years but not necessarily over 3 or 4 years. Also sure you get a tax deduction but you only get a tax deduction because you are making payments, big payments, and those deductions go away when you are paying more principal

I guess I didn't get point across... "Outlet pricing" was merely a metaphor, and so was "80% off." I definitely do NOT personally believe that we'll see the catastrophic collapse which many here appear to be hoping. At the same time, I do not believe that most of us purchase our primary residences, in an attempt to save money over renting--AT ALL. Not everything in life is about saving money. In addition, not everyone is looking to pay the rock bottom on everything, if/when they are able to afford it.

Someone asked me who can afford to pay more than the rock bottom (perhaps it was a rhetorical question?)... Well, there are people with significant savings. Also, there are people who are salaried at reasonably high rates ($150k & up) and their jobs are secure for life without the possibility of being adversely affected by the economy (e.g., judges and other legal professionals in the court systems, tenured full professors, CFOs, etc.). When there are two such individuals in a household, I am sure they can easily afford good properties w/o being concerned at all.

> Having said that, long term, real estate is ALWAYS a good buy.

Sounds like someone hasn't actually looked at the stats... This is categorically false.

> There is no way real estate prices in NY will be lower 10 years from now.

Wow, so you're one of those....

;-)

Did my post not register that apartments have already closed anywhere from 13-16% off asking at William Beaver according to the Streeteasy closing data. These were apartments that closed in December. Do you really think that is the end of it? Why should you pay full price when they are obviously accepting lower offers?

They may have closed 13% of asking price, but when was the contact signed - it may be 13% of asking price from 18 months ago when they first went on sale. I doubt anybody has been able to flip an apartment in this market in just a matter of days or weeks. While I don't think the market is as bad as some others, I doubt anybody is closing and re-selling in just days or weeks.

Also, nyc10022 - I challenge you to find any evidence that RE is not a good long term buy. Sure, you can lose money if your time frame is a few years - but if you have a long term investment horizon, real estate is a good buy. I suppose you might find isolated examples to the contrary, but in 95%+ of cases, RE is a good long term investment.

NYC_1234, I'm not sure I'm following your point. If these went into contract 18 months ago, and the price paid is 13-16% off asking for closings in Dec., couldn't negotiated prices be even lower now? I bid on three FIDI new constructions this year and no developer was willing to give me a price concession; only closing cost concessions. So I would say this "discount" at William Beaver is pretty significant.

Soon ... rentals in William Beaver to compete with rentals in 20 Pine.

"I challenge you to find any evidence that RE is not a good long term buy."

Ever been to Detroit or Buffalo? Or the entire state of Texas?

As to Manhattan, I couldn't find lomg term apartment data but did find a 100 year study of commercial real estate (which has some discussion of residential), and the results ain't pretty:

"This paper is able to put together a data base of 86 repeat sales transactions for office
properties in lower and mid town Manhattan spanning the years from 1899 through 1999.
Using this limited data base, decade-interval changes in real property prices are estimated
- with varying degrees of precision. Our conclusions are two. First, adjusting for
inflation, commercial office property values are 30% lower in 1999 than they were in
1899. Secondly, within any decade values often rise and fall by 20-50% in real terms.
With these results, the long term appreciation in commercial property is seen to be no
greater than inflation and to experience considerable decadal risk."

http://web.mit.edu/cre/research/papers/WP90wheatonbaranski.pdf

Anyone know how this development is doing downtown?

"Ever been to Detroit or Buffalo? "

Been to Detroit on business. Pretty scary. I will NEVER go back to Detroit. Not even if they GAVE me a house...

What the heck does Detroit or Buffalo have to do with William Beaver House?

"What the heck does Detroit or Buffalo have to do with William Beaver House?"

Agree. It distracts from people making gratuitous "Beaver" jokes...

should i even attempt the open house today

RE2009 - I say go for it :) The salespeople were very nice to us and we did not get any sort of "attitude" at all from them - although we were repeatedly told that this is a "party building" (is that a selling point?) and that the sponsor would not rent out sponsor units (whatevs).

Let us know how it goes if you do end up going today! What are you interested in btw? 1BRs?

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/cilf-of-week-15-william-st-william.html

-DT

There is an article in the NY Times Real Estate section today (or yesterday) that discusses people from the outer-boroughs moving into Manhattan. That is one benefit of Manhattan real estate. If prices drop x%, people move in, from substitute locations. So the drops are not as dramatic as in those substitute locations. Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, fringe Manhattan areas have more to worry about medium term.

Hi everyone,
Sorry for not commenting before, but the real facts are that Sapir owes a lot of money both to Blackstone (mezz loan) and iStar (Senior loan). Due to those debts they can't close any sales in the last 7 months! They can't even get contracts out. Basically, the brokerage there which is Prodigy lies about the situation and percentage sold and they keep on putting the open house signs, which is BS to bait clients to come and then maybe catch them and sell them in other buildings in the neighborhood. Everything about the building and brokers working there is shady!! be ware of them and their bait ads for sale or rental in the building... I responded to an ad and this chic tried to convince me to see other buildings with her after I realized they don't really have anything available there!!! But I guess there will always be suckers, so they'll keep on putting those baits until the state department will go after them and their licenses! Too bad for the building because it is a gorgeous building and amenities. At this point Sapir has to sell buildings to pay his debts or the WBH will go to foreclosure.