West 138th
Started by csn
over 16 years ago
Posts: 450
Member since: Dec 2007
Discussion about
Interested in some information for the area of West 138th Street between Riverside Drive and Broadway. How safe is the area, shopping, eating, food stores, transportation? Any useful information would be most appreciated.
if your unsure about an area, one of the best things you can do is go there at night, preferrably when the weather is good. See if there are any drug dealers, shady characters, etc.
I bought nearby about 4 years ago. The neighborhood is the Hamilton Heights section of Harlem and the section you are talking about is a few blocks north of the Columbia University expansion zone. To answer each of your questions:
Safety- The_President is right, and I would recommend a Friday or Saturday night where the weather is good. My own observations mirror the police statistics- that overall the neighborhood is improving significantly. When I first moved here- my block was one of the worst in the neighborhood. It was pretty rough the first 2 years- I witnessed gang fights with guys carrying Machete's, Hookers, A coke den based out of a bar at the end of my block, Dog fights occurring in the building across the street, and lots of petty drug dealers. Today it's a pretty different story- Hookers are gone, the coke den/bar is now a very nice clean deli, the vast majority of the gang activity is gone and most (but not all) of the petty drug dealers are gone. The official police stats are on the NYC.gov site.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs030pct.pdf
Shopping/Eating//Food stores- you have the largest supermarket in Manhattan (Fairway) about 6 blocks south- and a local supermarket around Broadway and 138th. Retail is improving, but overall still lacking. The combination of both colleges in the area expanding is also helping- (City College and Columbia).
Transportation- you have the 1 line at 137th & Broadway, Express trains @145th and St. Nicholas are a bit of a walk from this location but is about 12-15 minute ride from 145th down to 59th St.
The lots of $ came into this neighborhood over the last several years- and they seem to be willing to stick things out. Interestingly enough, overall I haven't seen a slow down in the pace of renovations in the neighborhood over the past year.
I think pricing of most of the properties in the area are still too expensive- not reflecting the fact that the easy money is gone, and the economy is horrible.
There are other regular Harlem posters that might give you a different perspective- but this is my take.
The nice thing about that section is it's so easy to get to CoVo, Fairway, Dinosaur etc. Plus Riverbank State Park is so close. It's also very close to the 1 train so no long walks to get home. That neighborhood will be like 106th and Broadway in 10/15 years. It's early, but college educated NYC newcomers have been moving into the neighborhood in decent numbers for about 5 years and their numbers grow each summer rental season. The economic downturn will force the changes/improvements to take longer, but dollar for dollar it's a pretty solid place. My biggest worry to moving in would be your neighbor's stereo. Most buildings are ok, but a few still have those idiots who think everyone in the neighborhood wants to listen to their music.
I live a block up from there. There's no street crime of the sort that would be prohibitive to ;living happily there. That block is delightful in that it traditionally got very little traffic, then got a big spike when the strip of three businesses opened around the corner on 12th Ave (the responsible Body Lounge, the delightful Trattoria Covo, and the heinous, despicable, neighborhood-hating Talay restaurant-thinks-it's-a-club. However, they just rebuilt the stretch of 12th Ave. so that it's a 2-way street, so most traffic will probably come and go from 12th Ave. (formerly impossible, so they used the 138th block). Body seems to have closed, so you run the risk of a bad player replacing it; or a great new restaurant (I hope). Also recently closed (allegedly temporarily) are Cafe Largo, a pretty good "new crowd" restaurant, and the little gourmet shop next door. There are great Mexican restaurants nearby, a good teeny cafe/bakery called Tanto Dulce, and of course Fairway.
The monstrous 3333 Broadway apartments went market rate last year or so after being a lower-lower-middle income ML rental since the 1970s, so that should (slowly) get more upscale residents over the coming years. Extell bought and piecemeal-renovated most or all of 137th between Bway/RSD, so that also should gentrify. That said, most of the neighborhood is locked in as low-income buildings, or the sort of rent-regulated ones that are not likely to gentrify anytime soon.
The considerable downside to the neighborhood, if these things bother you, is that it's filthy and nobody gives a shit about anything ... fire hydrants on full blast w/o sprinkler caps, and not even any kids playing in them, because some adult mental defective on each block thinks it's just the greatest thing about summer. So don't have a fire. Lots of ugly people hang out constantly, especially on Broadway (I don't even think they're necessarily involved in pharmaceutical sales, but maybe). For side streets, it varies highly by block ... I think the one you're asking about is okeh. Mine is repulsive.
Riverbank State Park, at RSD & 138th, has a dazzling array of sports facilities: indoor & outdoor pools, ice/roller skating, huge track around football/soccer field, tennis, basketball, indoor gyms, I think handball.
What are you thinking of buying / renting?
There are pretty cheap temporary rentals in the area. You might want to spend a couple of days (and nights) in one of these places, get to talk with the mailman, gypsy cab drivers, etc. I rented in Harlem for several weeks and I got tons of info block by block. I don't know that area that well, but it is quite beautiful and Covo is one of the best places to eat in the city, considering charm, ambiance, quality of food and price (AH, thanks again!). It is built under an old railroad or something. I took several friends there and they loved the experience!
By the way, I went to Chez Lucienne in Central Harlem (not particularly near this thread's street) and it was magnifique (except for the lack of air conditioning inside, where we sat; and the unfortunately horrible street view and activity near the outdoor tables). Highly recommended.
The big complaint I hear from the few people who live in the area is that alot of the inhabitants are dirty. In that throwing stuff, wrappers, cans, trash where ever they stand. The second complaint is noise. There seems to a be a 'go screw yourself' noise code in that neighborhood.
Alanhart - I'm on 139th as well.
There's also a new Italian place on 149th and Broadway - it opened up maybe two weeks ago and I've eaten there 3 times. $9 for Penne Vodka that tastes just as good as anything you get south of 96th. It's not Babbo but a great, solid go-to neighborhood joint. The Dominos on 148th is moving next door to it - do you have any idea what Columbia is doing with that blockfront where Dominos is?
And agree about the disgusting neighbors - they are harmless I think but they are just dirty, uneducated, government mooching slobs. Can't wait for the turnover at 3333 and other units as landlords buy these losers out. Good riddance I say.
While I can't disagree with falcogold on both points- I can say that both issues have been improving significantly along with the crime issues.
I live about a half block from the Domino's on Broadway between 147th and 148th. I have been trying to figure out what Columbia has been doing with the block since it seems they have gutted the retail on the 147th Street end- and it looks like they have put up some sort of facade that looks consistent with some of the other Columbia community oriented buildings of late. When I initially saw the construction work being done, I figured that they were already getting started with demolition of the entire block for the new building, since only Domino's and the 99 cent store remained. Now, I am not sure what is going on.
Ultimately, I know this is what is going into the space:
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/columbia-buys-20m-lot
Retail and a church on the ground floor, residential above
As for 3333 Broadway- it's pretty massive- so it will take a lot of time.
Long term I am extremely bullish on the whole neighborhood. Short term- I think there is a lot of overpriced properties on the market right now.
Not far from Chez Lucienne -agreed AH, a place to recommend- is Settepani, a great coffee place. Now they have liquor license and serve lunch and dinner. I love the place and the food is excellent. The coffee is good but beware, the capuccino is so big and loaded that once I had a serious caffeine overdose....
Grew up nearby. Was and still is a dangerous, drug infested and crime ridden area. The brokers may forget to mention that. If you are an aspiring actor and "must" live in NYC, live elsewhere.
knowsalot - it's clearly been a while since you've been to the neighborhood - sure they sell weed there, but this just in, they sell weed in the West Village too.
The cutesy descriptions and euphimisims that brokers use to describe "emerging" "historical" neighborhoods really refer to crime ridden, dirty, neglected areas of the city, including parts of Harlem and Bed Stuy..where I grew up in the 1990's.
and Southampton Village too.
Appreciate all the information.
Jazzman-
Still pass thru there every week to see a relative; you are right, they do sell weed in the West Village, but not the crack and other hard drugs that are peddled openly in plain view near 138th St.
If you never lived or had family there, you have no clue about what goes on. Listen to your Real Estate Broker who probably knows more than I do.
Triplex, unless I misunderstood your post, you're telling Jazzman, who lives in Harlem (as you can see from this thread) that he doesn't know what goes on there because he's never lived there . . . ?
I've lived in Harlem for nearly ten years, and I've never seen hard drugs being sold, but I don't doubt that they are here, and in the Village, and in Kansas. They're very much in demand, so there's a market for them.
But tamales are peddled openly in the streets, by a fat loud-mouthed woman who hawks her wares near the subway, and forms the nucleus of a growing third-world marketplace that makes my blood pressure skyrocket every time I exit the subway ... and the authoritays do nothing.
I used to live on 139th and Riverside (2004-2005), and still end up in the hood every once in a while.
I have to say - everyone keeps saying it's changing, but I am not seeing it. It's not the slums, but to me, it is and always has been (at least as long as I've lived in the city), a somewhat gritty, heavy-minority working class neighborhood. That's not a bad thing, necessarily, just my honest impression.
I've ran and rode past the Talay-Body-Covo triumvirate, and was shocked to see how packed and "happening" they were. Seemed like caricatures to me - very nice establishments with filth and stench all around. Maybe I am getting old, but seemed weird.
I agree that Riverbank Park is great, although I am pretty sure it's RSD and 145th.
Final thought - of the many streets in that area, I actually think 138th west of Broadway is unique in ways both good and bad because it goes down under the bridge, instead of into Riverside. The good is the easier access to Fairway, riverfront, that trimvirate if you're interested, WSH, etc, as well as pretty consistent street parking at the bottom of the block. The huge downside, to me, is that the lack of access to Riverside has made the block the dirtiest, sketchiest, and most depressing of the surrounding ones. Riverside is a huge redeeming feature of many/most blocks in the neighborhood... just not that one. Again, just my opinion.
newbuyer99 - you say the neighborhood hasn't changed but then you are surprised at how packed the new restaurants are - clearly the new restaurants are a change and clearly they are packed with college educated people who are mostly new to the neighborhood. BTW, Riverbank has two entrances one at 145th and one at 138th.
alanhart - agreed about the annoying lady selling her tamales. She should be shut down, but the cops do ZERO.
Triplex - I know exactly what goes on in my neighborhood - just as I knew what was going on in my neighborhood in the WV. For some reason people think that white people smoking up is acceptable for a neighborhood, but if guys are standing on a street corner selling an oregano and weed mixture that somehow that makes a neighborhood unsafe? Violent crimes in Harlem are down significantly. Still not 100% safe, but acceptable. If you want to rip on Harlem, then rip on the dirty streets, the parents who allow 2 year-olds to play outside at 11 pm, and the schools. Those are the areas where we should focus.