Board approval or rejection

Co-op vice president here.

At best, it takes three full business days from the time you submit your application until board members actually get it in their hands. Generally, I open these packages the very day I receive them. I give the other board members two full business days before emailing about when/where we should discuss this applicant.

If we're less than two weeks away from our monthly board meeting, that's when we'll discuss the application. Otherwise, it's very difficult to coordinate the schedules of seven busy professionals. Sometimes we'll get lucky and be able to have a majority meet informally later that same week. More often than not, however, it's at least another two weeks before we meet in person to discuss your application.

That's providing, of course, your application is complete, and we have no questions. Again, more often than not, the application is poorly-assembled, the numbers don't add up, and we have to go through the channels for clarification: our managing agent, to the broker, back to you. Or the questions might not get back to you -- we may be busy calling your references. Or your employer. Or your bank. Sometimes it takes days or even weeks (especially during summer vacation season) for these people to get back to us.

Trust me, no news is good news. These things take time.

Many coops have no August meeting of the Board. Therefore, if the July meeting is held early-mid month, and you submit your application after the July meeting, you will likely hear something in early September. Still, this ought to have been explained to you. No reason for radio-silence.

PS: We've been sitting on one application for over a month in our own building because a majority of the board members have been out of town on vacation since July.

Summer is a bad time to expect co-op boards to move quickly.

Thank you for your respond... How long I have to wait?

1668, that's impossible to answer. Individual co-op boards are as different and diverse as the people who comprise them. My building has an unusually quick and responsive board -- mostly because I personally tend to take the reins and crack the whip since I hate having unfinished business on my desk and as a former buyer myself, I understand that people's lives are on hold every hour we let those applications sit on our desks.

Other boards, however, work on their own timetables. As Kylewest just explained, many boards don't even meet in August (ours does), and many boards aren't as flexible as ours in being willing to meet outside of the monthly meeting to discuss application packages.

September is the universal back-to-business month. I'd start worrying if you haven't heard anything by the 28th.

9/28 is going to be 10 weeks...i guess i wasn't prepare for that.

Frankly, I wouldn't expect to hear anything until after Labor Day at the very very earliest. Most likely mid-September.

You were poorly served by (1) the seller's broker and/or (2) your broker or not having a broker, and/or your attorney, since what I posted above is pretty 101-level info. Submitting a packet in mid July and expecting to hear in less than 6 weeks was somewhat naive given that this is run-of-the-mill timing for summer applications. Why hasn't your attorney told you this? Have you asked? I hope your financing is able to be continued through mid October because that may well be when you end up closing.

After 2 mouth waiting for answer from the board , i was rejected without interview. No explanation .Was really waist of my and every body else time and money....

sorry to hear that, i am sure you are frustrated but try to think of all the other great apt out there.

That is really shameful: if they were going to reject you without an interview, it should have happened much more quickly. most likely an awful lot of it was sheer laziness by Board Members to handle the building's business when they felt they were "on vacation".

I'm sorry to hear about your "loss", but think of what it must be like living with these people running the building? Could be a blessing in disguise.

"That is really shameful: if they were going to reject you without an interview, it should have happened much more quickly. most likely an awful lot of it was sheer laziness by Board Members to handle the building's business when they felt they were "on vacation"."

Who are you to say "it should have happened much more quickly"? How do you know they didn't argue and deliberate over the application for three weeks?

It is foolish to submit an offer in late July expecting a quick decision from any co-op board. Board members are as entitled to summer vacations as anyone else.

"How do you know they didn't argue and deliberate over the application for three weeks?"

They may have. But that still leaves over 5 weeks. If it was a month or a little over, I wouldn't have thought it so bad, but I think the relationship of how offensive it is isn't linear. think about this: if at the end of 2 months they didn't decide to reject without an interview, and did want an interview, how long would the process have taken? 3 months?

And when you query "who are you to say", I say as someone who's livelihood has for years depended on getting deals done in a reasonable amount of time. And as a Board Member who was particularly tough and probably rejected a significantly higher than average percentage of applicants: but I also had a responsibility as a Board Member to the Shareholder to not drag out a transaction which cost them a considerable amount of money ESPECIALLY in a declining market. I think every Board needs to realize that with a declining market, they need to turn things around more quickly than before, because if they reject, the longer they take the more the seller loses, and in the current market conditions there's way too much chance of the purchaser losing their financing and losing the deal even if they don't reject.

Board members are entitled to vacations: but if any Board Member wants to take a vacation of a month or longer, they should recuse themselves and allow those who are around make decisions without holding up the business of the corporation. In today's technological climate, there's no one who can't get a board package anywhere in the world with the push of a button. So as a Board member you can choose what is more important to you: not being disturbed on your protracted vacation (and how long do Board Members ACTUALLY spend reviewing applications? In my experience, most barely look at them much at all) or not being part of the decision process. What if the boiler blew up? Would it be reasonable not to decide what to do about it because people were on vacation for 2 months? As Board President of a small Coop who was VERY hands on (the biggest complaint from the managing agents was that I wanted to micro manage everything) I never had a problem looking at a COMPLETE Board Package within a week, no matter where I was or what else I was doing.

Part of the problem is that the vast majority of Board Members are "one issue" people, who are there for their personal agenda and won't participate in much else. They also tend to spend little or no time in learning what the responsibilities of being a Corporate Director are or what conflicts of interest are and are not.

>>Board members are as entitled to summer vacations as anyone else.
As are Firemen, Nurses and Teachers, but we dont close down the city for august. People how take board positions need to be more aware that they have a responsibility to their shareholders (even thoses trying to sell), especially in these days of telephones and other communcations methods.

maybe they didnt like the price?

maybe the sellers have been a huge pain in the ass to the board in the past and the board rejected their buyers in an effort to "punish" the sellers. just a thought

"As are Firemen, Nurses and Teachers, but we dont close down the city for august. People how take board positions need to be more aware that they have a responsibility to their shareholders (even thoses trying to sell), especially in these days of telephones and other communcations methods."

Get a grip. A co-op isn't a hospital, firehouse, or police station.

The package can wait. If you can't wait for an answer, look in another building.

I'm actually one of the more responsive board members who likes to move things along quickly, but believe it or not, board members are professionals with lives outside of running the building.

And by the way, as far as "other communications methods", unless someone has special office equipment, it's impossible to coordinate a conference call with nine people from a residential telephone. And most people still don't have the capability on their computers for video conferencing.

so you put a board member or two on a speaker phone a deal

nearly 3 months is ridiculous, period

betcha the board is shocked by the low price on this deal and is trying to make the sale go away

"so you put a board member or two on a speaker phone a deal"

Two board members is not a quorum. Do you not understand how co-op boards work?

Clearly talks out of his bottom.

Do the co-op bylaws indicate a minimum number of times per year the board must meet?

Most co-ops don't have a minimum number of meetings requirement.

actually i do matt...and i assume that most board members can make most board meetings, and thus a quorum could be attained via those present and one or two who need to be brought in via speakerphone...if most board members cant make most meetings get a new effen board...the last board i was on had little patience for this type of garbage..two members were useless and got dressed down by the rest of us accordingly...one resigned, ther other cleaned up her act

and nearly 3 months is still completely ridiculous...to review the package?? what are you defending? you seem to run your board well...this board is clearly run shittily

betcha the board is shocked by the low price on this deal and is trying to make the sale go away--happens all the time--i once agreed on a price with a seller and had to "go away" cuz the board thought the price was too low

Here's another reason to hate Coops.
They are run buy collective conventional wisdom. One dip shit and the whole thing is reduced to Jr. High mentality. Not only are they abusive to you but, abusive to the seller who is a fellow share holder. The sad reality is Communism has it's failings.

"and nearly 3 months is still completely ridiculous...to review the package?? "

Not necessarily. Many co-op boards don't meet in August. If the package was submitted in late July ... after the July meeting ... then the board conceivably wouldn't have met again until mid- or even late September ... which is where we are now.

stil a coop is a corporation and s..b. subject to ny state corp law. Would think they have to defend reviewing board package time frame as "reasonable". For example they can't decide on an every seven year schedule.

Again, it's quite common for co-op boards not to meet in August. What's your point here?

yet another fine example of a wtf are you talking about post from redbaiter

either its some ayn randy cohn teaparty acorn rush beck hannity crap
or it's completely random useless garbage as in this last post

About the sale price was exact as the appraisal and from the day of the contract to the rejection day was 3 1/2 mouths. I sign the complete board package 1st july and was rejected 14 september...

So the board took the summer off. Deal with it.

what's being dealt with is a particularly shitty board for both the buyer and the seller--

matt, bet the tenants in your bldg are glad you dont run things this way

none of the boards i have been on or been subject to have been remotely as irresponsible as to take 3 1/2 months to review the document package

not much you can do 1668---unfortunately some are as scummy as they can get away with, and in this case you have no recourse--

Matt, please calm down. Was this your building?

No, it wasn't my building.

I'm simply trying to explain WHY it might take a board so long to get back to an apparently impatient buyer.

matt, your own timeline from the start of this thread indicates 3 days for all board members to receive..then if next meeting is more than two weeks away, an attempt is made to have an interim meeting..if that effort (what good boards do) fails, it would be, then, max of one month and three days from the time the packeage was delivered to board members until discussion of the package takes place..what is impatient about a buyer who must wait 3 1/2 months for this board to accomplish what takes you one month and three days max?

the seller must be quite irate...apt off the market in contract for 3 1/2 months while the board plays games before finally rejecting...and a rejection based on document package only..bet you typically get these done in three weeks, no?

You missed my other post:

"PS: We've been sitting on one application for over a month in our own building because a majority of the board members have been out of town on vacation since July.

Summer is a bad time to expect co-op boards to move quickly."

matt you seem generally intelligent and reasonable from what i have read, and it sounds like you bring that to your board vp position--you just got a little hissy over this poor guy who got held up for 3 1/2 months- it wasn't a "deal with it" situation

you must live in a ritzyassed building if the majority of your board take 7 weeks off in the summer

I am really disappointed. Take less then mouth for my loan to be clear and 2 1/2 mouth to be rejected. This is not right . With all my respect no body should do business this way. Look like sick game..

what is the address of the building?

That really sucks. There's no excuse for 3.5 months for them to go through the package without any warning or notification.

exc point 30 - the one issue person. lots o' them among us.

In 20 years in this business I have never heard of a board rejecting without an interview after 3 months of sitting on a package!
Seems like someone screwed up, maybe they did not get the BP when it supposedly was sent out.

There are a 100 reason why it could take 3 1/2 months, very few are valid. Why not take six months, people will just have to deal with it.

>>If you can't wait for an answer, look in another building.
The seller can't do that.

>>cost them a considerable amount of money ESPECIALLY in a declining market
I can cost them a lot of money in a flat and rising market too, thats why the responsibility is to execute as fast as possible. Lost opportunities while a board sits [sic] on the beach.

Since june the S&P 500 rose 20%, a $1MM apartment could have cost the seller $200,000 in lost capital gains had he reinvested there. Other indices returned more.

If board members are too busy to do their job, kick them off.
If the board is too big to do it's job, shrink it.

Just curious what you think about ...if any body from the board of this building like this apartment and delay the rejection, so after 4 mouth the seller is even more desperate and can except the lower offer. ...

"And by the way, as far as "other communications methods", unless someone has special office equipment, it's impossible to coordinate a conference call with nine people from a residential telephone. And most people still don't have the capability on their computers for video conferencing."

freeconference.com/
freeconferencecall.com/
accuconference.com/
conferencecalls.com/
I could add about another couple of hundred.

I have not looked into any of those in particular, just pointing out that there are ALL SORTS of places which host conference calls. I forget the service we routinely used on the Board I was on that used one, but we had people from all around the world on a few.

Also, why does it take a board meeting to have people review a package? What building does everyone wait for the board meeting, not looking at the package, and then sit around looking at it for the first time when they get together? That's nonsense. You get the package, you look at it and make your own notes. If you see some real red flags, you call another Board member and ask "What do yo think of this?". If over 50% of the Board Members think a package is so bad that they shouldn't even interview, you don't even need a meeting, just circulate a fucking email and vote. Boards actually can do business outside of Board Meetings.

That is truly ridiculous. I can't believe someone would defend such a delay as normal practice. OP, give us the address so no-one else wastes their time with such a bunch of nincompoops.

"Also, why does it take a board meeting to have people review a package? What building does everyone wait for the board meeting, not looking at the package, and then sit around looking at it for the first time when they get together? That's nonsense. You get the package, you look at it and make your own notes. If you see some real red flags, you call another Board member and ask "What do yo think of this?". If over 50% of the Board Members think a package is so bad that they shouldn't even interview, you don't even need a meeting, just circulate a fucking email and vote. Boards actually can do business outside of Board Meetings."

Spoken like someone who's never served on a board.

At some point, you have to have ALL of the board members assembled to discuss the package, and take a vote.

you must live in a ritzyassed building if the majority of your board take 7 weeks off in the summer

first board members don't get paid
second they typically meet several times a year
third they are scheduling the availability of the entire board

big difference between a board and a managing agent

I doubt the board of IBM meets every four weeks

Thank you, Riversider.

My fellow board members and I were taken aback by the attitude of one applicant who, after we voted to move forward with an interview, gave us a date and time that she was available to meet with us.

!!!

Hello! The board will give YOU -- if you're lucky and they're accommodating -- a list of days that THEY can meet with YOU, not the other way around.

Seriously. Where do these people come from?

matt, have a good time when the people who can't pay their maintenance need to sell. you may not yet know that they won't be able to in the near future, because people don't like to announce such things. but, shit can hit the fan. and i'd say that for many buildings that time is just around now.

maybe then you will speed it up if people have a decent offer.

"matt, have a good time when the people who can't pay their maintenance need to sell."

We have a healthy reserve. And eventually, we'll be paid back.

"Spoken like someone who's never served on a board."

Now you're just being an ass.

"At some point, you have to have ALL of the board members assembled to discuss the package, and take a vote. "

No you don't. If everyone thinks it doesn't deserve consideration, most By Laws allow for a vote on such matters to be taken outside of a formal board meeting. Face it, plenty of buildings have sub-committees to do everything up to and including the interview.

And if you want to pull this kind of BS, you obviously are a totally clueless moron because you NEVER have to get ALL the Board Members for ANYTHING, just a quorum (unless you've got some pretty fucking unusual By Laws).

matt, any buyer should absolutely abhor buying in your building, although they might not know it when they do.

how stupid, how shortsighted, and how unfriendly. it is in your best interest to move units so that they perform optimally at the best prices. business model. delaying sales in a down market does the opposite.

glad i don't own.

NYCmatt, your attitude is very shortsighted. You seem to believe you hold all the power, and the potential buyer exist at your pleasure. This sort of highhanded behavior can bite you in the butt in a retreating market.

of course, cc, but it's always so nice when the evidence appears so clearly. when he's actually trying to give advice to others.

NYCMatt is such an epitome of the arrogant asshole coo-op board member that makes people abhor the co-op structure. It's almost like he is trying to prove what jerks co-op boards are, and I have to say, he is doing a good job.

Thankfully I'll never be poor enough to have to live in his building where they can't afford to make a conference call when needed.

what makes you think any of what he says is for real? he is a big time fake and liar. he doesn't give advice--he scolds. "co-op vp here."

who would really say that?

Probably a co-op board vice president.

NYCMatt - you do really come across as a pompouse A**s- scary man to have on a coop board.

Of the disagreements I have with Matt, one of them ISN'T that he would put "co-op vp here."

Assuming it to be the truth, it gives the reader a much better idea of the perspective he is coming from. in fact, it would be better if MORE people listed some sort of cv/credentials when making statements.

I've never seen the a$$hole side of our friend Matt before but OY, it's on full display here. Hope he's not in my building.

he's not only an asshole; he also makes it up as he goes. filled with misinformation and outright lies.

To add my two cents in a very similar and frustrating situation.
I submitted the full package 8-30.
Management gave an okay and pass it to board on 9-8.
Board met on 9-22.

3 weeks passed... no word, no word, still no word... on whether they are gonna interview or not.
Heard that a board member wants to sell and didn't like my price.

Any suggestion on when I should snap?
Say if I still don't get any response in two weeks (two months from submission), is there any way I can withdraw the contract legally?

what is the seller saying?

Seller's broker said that seller is communicating with board president and urged me not to push too much...
You think it's possible that the seller is part of this stalling game?

re: withdrawing legally. generally, the contract has an outside date with a 30 day grace period---so, if that's the case and you're still within the grace period, nothing you can do legally. what i never was clear about was whether that 30 represented calendar or business days. your lawyer can easily clarify.

I'm in the middle of a co-op purchase experience right now:

Entered into contract: 09/15/2009
Completed Board package submitted: 09/22/2009 (total weight of all the paper sent: 3.4lbs!)
Management company makes reference check calls: 10/01/2009 (my references notified me)
Management company orders credit report: 10/07/2009 (I subscribe to a credit bureau anti-identity theft service which sends me an alert every time my credit report is accessed)
Management company distributes copies of Board Package: 10/09/2009 (according to seller's broker)

Seems to me that this has been done quite efficiently.

I'll be waiting now to see:
a) whether I have been rejected;
b) when my Board interview will be

The process is most definitely cumbersome but given the number of co-ops in Manhattan, I guess this is the accepted practice.

I started preparing the board package as soon as our offer was accepted by the seller and before we entered into contract. The biggest pain was gathering the latest statements for each asset and getting the social and professional reference letters together.

Given all the effort to date, I'd be quite devastated if we were rejected outright without an interview but I guess I should be prepared for any outcome!

The board turned down my application without interview. 3 months of work since signing the contract.
My application is solid on the paper. It has to be either the price or some bio discrimination, but of course they wouldn't say. The magic power of coop.

So almost two weeks since the board received the board package and still no news. I guess I'm just getting impatient because with Thanksgiving next month and Christmas shortly thereafter, it would be nice to close and get some of the minor work done on the place before too long.

Both the seller's and my broker were targeting an end of October closing and I understand that 30 days beyond that is normal.

Is there any standard timetable for Board meetings to take place (ie. once per month? once per quarter?).

Thanks.

Boards typically meet once per month.

Two weeks is nothing. Give it at least a month -- provided, of course, your package isn't missing any information.

Thanks Matt. Appreciate the insight. I have no idea whether my package is missing anything -- as far as I can tell, it was complete and included everything requested. It was reviewed by the management company and distributed to the Board so, presumably, the management company would have indicated if it was missing something?

Thanks again.

Anonyme, that's not really true.

In my experience, management companies are good only at making sure the i's are dotted, the t's are crossed, and all blanks are filled. And even then, they overlook quite a bit.

And just because the management company accepts the application, doesn't mean there aren't glaring reasons for the board to reject it. It's not the management company's place to reject applicants, or even give them feedback -- they are responsible only for compiling the information, and like I said, making sure all the requisite information is included.

So my answer to your question -- in most cases, no -- short of blank spaces, the management company wouldn't indicate to you that anything is missing, because most management companies can't anticipate the depth of scrutiny or questions the board may have.

Thanks for the info NYCMatt. I guess we will just have to continue to wait to see what happens next.

We now have a Board interview scheduled! I guess that's a good thing because we've gotten this far! Any tips other than what's already been written (ie. dress conservatively -- business suit; a short interview is a good interview; no small talk; answer questions succinctly; only answer questions that are asked; don't ask any questions) would be most appreciated!

Wish me luck.

Will report on the results.

anonyme, best of luck. be polite but don't be afraid. it they really would reject you for something extremely small do you want to be amongst them? maybe, because this is a drawn out and emotional process. but try to relax. and congrats at getting to the interview stage. thinks are looking good!

my typing is just going downhill daily.

Just be yourself. Good luck!

And pray that NYCMatt is not on the other side of the table from you.

Thanks -- I find this so much harder than a job interview because I really don't know what they're looking for. Normally, in a job interview, the candidate has a basic idea of what the interviewer is seeking and what they need to do to try to satisfy those requirements. In this case, who knows? I guess we've passed the "paper application" test (don't know what the criteria for that is either other than sound financials and acceptable recommendation letters). I guess the point of an interview is to make sure that we aren't other people that who we say we are and to show that we will be good neighbors. All very hard to decipher but I'm actually looking forward to seeing how this goes.

columbiacounty
about 5 weeks ago
ignore this person
report abuse he's not only an asshole; he also makes it up as he goes. filled with misinformation and outright lies.

interesing, one more thread with columbiacounty cursing someone.

We passed the board interview!

It was actually quite straight forward. The board panelist were extremely professional and very nice individuals who cared about their building and protecting the interests of the shareholders.

It was quite informal and the questions focused more on our plans for the apartment. In the end, the board panelists actually did most of the talking extolling the virtues of the neighborhood and the building staff.

All in all, I was quite pleased that the board members took their fiduciary role seriously and feel comfortable to be moving into such a building.

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I'm happy to answer specific questions anyone may have.

I am very impress that exist coop board members that are actually humans ... nice .. lets wish for this year for the rest of board members to become humans too!!!...

can someone tell me if a coop board tells you to reach out to their attorney and that attorney tells you that the coop board will take no position with regard to my coop application, does this mean a rejection of my application?

Being turned down is a good thing, one day you will realize it is a fortune not to live under the influence of those SOBs

I think it's time for your attorney to call the seller's attorney and ask WTF is going on. Are you a member of a protected class? Is there something going on between the seller and the coop?