broker fight

Why is the freaking world would you bring in a broker on an apartment that you found on your own. What type of business are you in?. You must work in some capacity for the government. In my opinion since you brought a broker in he should be entitled to commision and have to split it with the sellers broker. That would be the right and ethical thing to do. I think you got yourself in a no win situation. Good luck but you may just want to walk away from this deal.
It is my opinion though that the broker you brought in legally is not entilted to commission since it was you who found out about the apartment. I'm not a lawyer but he can argue that he is entitled to commission buy stating that "but if it wasn't for him" you wouldn't moved ahead with the purchase for he rendered a proffesional opinion about the apartment. I guess it may be the "but for rule".

Any wonder why brokers are despised?

well, broker C argued that he could make sure that I don't get ripped off and that he could try to negotiate that the seller carry some of the taxes that normally the buyer carries. So far I didn't even know this was negotiable.

A good lawyer should be helping you negotiate too. . .

You do have the right to bring in a broker to negotiate the deal on your behalf. Broker B is mistaken telling you otherwise. I understand broker B's irritation though, but he is wrong.
Whether Broker C will ultimately be able to get you a better deal is a function of too many variables and unknowables. sometimes yes, sometimes no. If you feel good with broker C follow your gut and use him.If you are indifferent gowith B. In the future try not to create a situation in which at least one party will end up exasperated with you by being clearer from the get-go.

Why don't you bing in another broker. Let's call him broker D and another one and let's call him boker E. This way you have 4 brokers so when you close on the apartment they can all place a lien on it against their commissions.

provided that I don't have any experience with real estate negotiations, is there any disadvantage for me in bringing in broker C to negotiate on my behalf? Apart from pissing off broker B, that is? Angry broker B could then decide to sell to someone else, of course. But am I right in assuming that most buyers have brokers, so he expects to have to split his commission anyway?

He might expect that he would probably split the commission anyway, but you need to smooth itover with him, and more importantly ensurethatbroker c makes nice with him to try to ensure a smooth deal

First of all, to hell with who's licenses are at risk. It doesn't matter, it's none of your affair. Ignore all of that talk. Don't let it scare or bother you. These people are NOT your friends, OK? They are business people doing a job, that's all.

I also believe that broker was out of line to call you like that. I suspect you are young (under 35) and just so very nice, and she figures she can intimidate you into doing what she wants. If you made a bid (which you should never do at a showing, especially a first showing! Go visit urbandigs.com!!) then her behavior was slightly more justified, because she maybe nodded at something you offered under false pretenses, in her view. Still, I don't like her behavior.

Your lawyer will advise you but if you go ahead on this property I'm pretty sure you'll owe commissions to more than one broker. Yes I know of course the seller "pays" but, um, who is writing the biggest check? It's either you or your bank.

At this point I would certainly find some other apartments you like, because you may also just lose this apartment anyway because broker B has every incentive to sell to a buyer w/o a broker in tow. That's a lot of us, by the way (I'm in contract on an apartment right now.) This is the BIG disadvantage to using a buyer's broker, but if you scared I guess you have no choice.

I don't think you're at too much risk of a rocky deal, but you need a good attorney with experience. If this deal continues the brokers will not act like babies, they will be pros by then, because there is money to be made. Best of luck to you!!!

My advice is to walk away from this and chalk it up to a learning experience. Although you may love this apartment trust me there are plenty of other apartments in NYC that you will like even more. There is absolutely no reason why you should get involved with two brokers. You should either deal directly with an owner (FSBO--For sale by owner) or just the listing broker.
Since you are using Street easy you should know what's for sale in the buildings and location you are interested in. As far as dealing with brokers are involved just remember like any profession there are good ones and bad ones. My opinion only about 4 out of 100 brokers are good. Next time a broker calls you or emails you tell them you only deal with brokers that list property. Don't let them befriend you for they are out for one thing and one thing only and it's called commission.

I think the seller's broker was WAAAAY out of line. I think that bitch needs a reprimand. If you feel you need a buyer's broker, by all means use one. The truth is, you have one now; if the assistant spent the day with you then you do have a broker. I personally would have trouble with this deal because I'd keep wanting to tell that seller's broker to get effed but if you can just ignore & forgive that childish, unprofessional, disrespectful outburst and work with him/her then proceed. Congratulations to you. You know what you want & you're taking care of yourself by having professional representation; hopefully your broker CAN save you some money when you sit down with that nasty seller's broker. You do have an excellent real estate attorney, of course. Let us know what happens with this & GOOD LUCK !

I think you should walk away from the place.

"I have to assume that broker B is angry because he would have to split the commission if I got a broker. I also have to assume that broker C wants to be in the deal because he would earn nice money."

Spot on, that's what it's all abt. Brokers get vicious abt this stuff. You have no obligation to Broker C unless you signed a contract and you did discover the place on your own. That said you prob shouldn't have brought broker C to the place because it tilted the balance with Broker B, who can screw you in the sale.

That said Broker B was totally unprofessional. In this market listing agents forget that there's something to be said abt 'customer service'.

I agree, walk away from the deal and explain why to Broker B. I'll bet in a month they'll come crawling back after not having received an offer as good as the one you made.

Why don't you need a buyer's broker? Because a good lawyer will do everything you need to close once you've found a place. So bringing in Mr. C = bad move. Get a lawyer!

#14--so easy to say, but the OP likes and wants the apartment.Why should he/she walk away? Just decide whether or not to go with broker c, and try to get the unit.I just don't understand everyone acting as though a lawyer does everything a buyer broker would do. I have bought several units, 1 with buyers broker, 2 by myself, and the offer from a price perspective is always negotiated before the lawyer gets involved. My lawyer gets involved once there is an accepted offer, so while there are a number ofpoints left to be negotiated the offered and accepted price is not something my lawyer has ever had any part of.

I don't think broker B will sell this place to you. I guarantee he will do everything in his power not to sell to you (plus he will say the commission cannot be split since you did not originally look at the place with a broker). Also, broker C will say you owe him a 3% commission. If you buy this place I believe you will end up having to pay a 3% commission to your broker out of pocket.

I agree broker C is going to want his commission and unless you can work something out with him
if pressed he may have a legal right to commission and if he wants to can use his firms attorney to collect. Whether he is entitled to commission is another discussion but personally I think he would win in a court of law if he decides to pursue his commission which can come to haunt you months after the closing.

What everyone is losing sight of is that Broker B legally cannot withhold the offer from the seller and that legally he must permit broker c to act as your broker. Just talk tohim, apologize for being new to the process and not having divulged that you planned to use a broker, and move on with it. Do realize for the future that you went about this idiotically, sorry but it's true.Make nice and try to get the apartment.

I have to agree with the above but I have to question the integrity of a buyer who would bring in another broker after he meets with and discusses and spends a good amount of time with the first broker. That too me is wrong and I have to question the character of the OP here. Sorry but to me it's not about being a nice innocent guy here it's about ones inner character and if I was broker B I would be very suspect of what else you are going to do next.
I am not a broker just an observer but I wouldn't want to do business with someone who makes these so called idiotic business maneuvers.

#21, I don't think the OP was being malicious, just naiive. Sounds like he really didn't think he had anything to lose by bringing Broker C along and didn't realize it would kick up a s**tstorm.

I think there's a LOT of murkiness abt using a buyer's broker in NYC. I also had a bad experience with a buyers broker that resulted in one calling me up at work and chewing me out for using another agent to look at places....as if I was SUPPOSED to know the drill as a young first-time buyer.

#21, what about the integrity of RE agents who would sabotage a sale???? Remember, Broker B has a fiduciary duty to the seller and must present ALL offers...but doubt he would this one.

Remember he met with the first broker not once but twice and then brings in another broker to represent him. What's that all about. What are you saying to the first broker who I am sure you gave the impression that he was representing you. I'll tell you what you are saying I am not sure if I trust you let me bring in another broker and get his opinion which BTW you had no idea what brokers C background was. Not sure about the naive part here.

sounds like idiocy not malice on OP's part. I do agree with #21's point and that is why I am saying do your best to smooth it over.The fact that broker b is understandably highly irritated after spending time with OP, meeting OP AGAIN with girlfriend etc...giving op ample time to mention another broker that was never mentioned--does not mean broker b will sabotage the deal.

Just another point which is that Op said he got this broker the other day and that the broker's assistant took him to a few places subsequently. What has this broker done to give op the impression that he would be better off with him? Honestly in this situation as broker c I would bow out of the deal. I mean you win some you lose some but with all this stickiness it is highly unlikely that OP will benefit in anyway from having broker c involved.This broker should bow out gracefully and OP should send him a nice present as a thank you for being a gentleman.

#24, what the heck would the buyer have to gain by pissing off the first broker? Sure I'd be ticked off too if I were Broker B but let's face it, broker B is representing the seller and OP doesn't owe him OR Broker C anything.

#26, nice thought but unfortunately Broker C isn't the one asking for advice here....and it doesn't sounds as if he'd exactly 'bow out' gracefully. Doubt any broker in NYC would do so.

# 27 --It's called reputable and ethical business practice. Of course it's a free world and anyone can do what ever they want to as long it's legal. I was brought up Treat those the same way you would like to be treated.
Sorry my skin is not that thick so maybe this type of business practice is quite common and natural for most others in the real estate world.

hi, it's the original poster again. judging from the intensity of discussion and range of opinions in this forum, I really got myself into a tricky situation. about the idiocy allegation: place A was the first one I saw of all places in NYC. I couldn't believe I was so lucky to find the best place at first strike, I was simply suspicious, having no experience whatsoever with real estate. That's why I looked for another broker to see other places. Turns out, place A is actually the best, by far! But I still wanted someone else's judgement, and I got along really well with the assistant of broker C. That's why I brought him to place A, and he agreed it was the best place we had seen. But I am still suspicious about the fact that the apartment I am looking at is more expensive than comparable ones in the same building. that's why I would need some expert knowledge. on my part it's definetely not malice, probably not idiocy, maybe naivety and certainly a learning process.

#28--I am a broker in NY and given these set of circumstances I may well just bow out gracefully.Through no fault of broker C, he has found himself in an ugly situation in which his inclusion will do more harm than good. I do very well, and I also believe in karma and trying my best to avoid ugly situations and so yes, given the stupid and thoughtless way in which the Op has behaved, I would bow out, wish him the best, and fiure that my decent behavior may well earn me a referral in the future. This business is cut throat enough and ugly enough and there is enough business out there that I choose not to go out of my way to get into an ugly deal.

OP, if you really like the place I suggest you figure out a way to drop the buyer's broker out of the deal. Although you did elicit his advice in hidsight it wasn't the best idea to bring him on board.

Either be straight up with him - which you've already done - or lie and tell him you've decided to take a break from the market for now. I realize the second part isn't ethical but then again you don't owe them anything.

#21 you are clearly a broker. And by working in real estate every day you have no idea what it is like to be a first time buyer. As a first time buyer myself I almost had the same situatiom. I had seen a place I loved but decided to get a buyer's broker because I had no idea what I was doing. The selling broker remembered me and was upset that I came back with a broker to see the place (there is nothing wrong with my character. Maybe you should look in a mirror at yourself and decide how your character is. You (and the rest of you broker who think it is wrong to get a second opinion with a professional) may be the most unethical business people I have ever run into.

I ended up walking away from the place because of the same mess the op here got himself into. I didn't end up finding anything else I liked as much so now I am renting again. Too bad, if the selling realtor would have grown up she could have some the place right away as opposed to having open house after open house until it finally sold. She ended up having to split the commission anyway.

To the above post you state #21 is a real estate broker with such conviction. In fact you go on to accuse post 21 as being a real estate broker without knowing that this itself a fact.Do you usually make accusations based on assumptions. No wonder you are a renter

I feel for the OP on this...I had a friend who is a real estate professional and yet still found himself in the same situation when his wife, without his knowledge, brought a seller's broker to see a place they had already seen on their own and the split commission became a huge issue between the brokers. Don't worry about people giving you grief about this, it happens.

I think the right thing for the OP to do is to make an offer through their Buyer's broker ("C") and understand that his or her offer is simply at a disadvantage. Appologize to the Seller's broker ("B") for any confusion but state he/she is now represented by a broker ("C")and needs to honor that relationship.

At the end of the day the Seller's broker is obligated by law to present the OP's offer to the owner. Failure by the Seller's broker to present the offer to the owner could result not only in them losing their license but would open them to a lawsuit as well.

Now that is not to say the Seller's Broker could deliver the offer to the owner and suggest they reject it. However the owner may accept the offer.

While many on this board criticize broker's (justifiably in some instances) ethics, brokers close deals. If the seller's broker does not have anyone else making an offer and faces the prospect of splitting the commission anyway, they are going to take the bird in hand, as opposed to two in the bush.

Good luck OP, you have sparked a lot of interest. Let us know how it goes.

OP--If you want the apartment and you want to be represented by broker C, I suggest Broker C starts to earn his commission--he can help you put together a professonal looking offer with all terms, and he can smooth things out with broker b. There are ways to make nice and he needs to start if he wants to do a good job for you. He should be deferential and apologetic with broker b, while stressing that as a newcomer to the game you very much want a brokers buyer. He should apologize on your behalf and on his for not having handled it optimally, and then hopefully move on to the deal.

STUPID & THOUGHTLESS BEHAVIOUR ! ? ! ? ! ? ? ? Who has ever taken a class in RE 101 & the niceties of dealing with realtors? The seller's broker is representing the seller not the buyer. The buyer feels he wants/needs someone to advise him on price & that's his right; he has a buyer's broker now to do so. End of story as far as I'm concerned. Good luck with the purchase & please let us know what happens.

Agree with #37 - It's fairly telling all the brokers chiming in on this post and yelling at the OP for doing something that any newcomer might do. Goes to show how slimy the profession is and how protective brokers can be for staking a claim for the fee. Give the guy a break and get a honest job. Pathetic.

Now now now now. While all Real Estate brokers are slime buckets then why in the world would you bring in a slime bucket buyers broker C into the picture. After all all broker C gives only a dam about is his commmison not what's in the best interest of the buyer. It's amazing how some people are slamming the brokers as the scum of the earth and the OP as this innocent Angel who has the moral right to bring in another devil to protect him. The hipocricy of the board is quite is quite interesting. Yes it is a slimy profession and I guess the OP has the right to keep bringing in the slime to educate him with one hand while that have the other hand in his pocket.

Just because he is bringing another broker in doesn't mean that the business isn't slimy. Have you heard the addage "if you can't beat em join em"!. At any rate, after you do it once - you realize you don't need a broker - if you are pretty savvy (have a business orientation). The savvyiness is common in NY because those who can afford to buy here, tend to have some.

But since it is his biggest purchase and broker C will have more knowledge than him - then he benefits. So that doesn't change the industry's slimy reputation unfortunately.

To poster #39 - "After all all broker C gives only a damn about is his commission not what's best intrest of the buyer."

Wow, what do you do for a living? I can count on my hand of the professions that don't think about the monitary benefits of their work. Maybe a priest or true artist. Doctors, lawyers, you name it....they care about what they are making not how they are helping. Why do you have such hatred for brokers earning an honest living? Are you just damn jealous?

I am tired of seeing people around here bash brokers as if they serve no purpose or don't deserve to make a living. If you feel that strongly against them why don't you focus your on-line efforts on say, youtube.com or myspace.com. This is a semi-professional site designed to help brokers as well as lay-people trying to learn more about real estate in New York. This is not a site to vent anger against the brokers who work damn hard dragging people around all day showing them spaces only for them to change their minds or to go with another broker the last minute. And then all their time was a waste.

And I state this not as an active real estate broker but just as a fair human being with utmost repect and courtesy for the people of this forum.

And I dare to post my "name" not like the yokes that are so afraid to post theirs because they only spew out nasty hatred.

I think one of the biggest reasons that there is such hostility to brokers in this particular thread is because the brokers are attacking the OP for bringing in a "professional" to get a second opinion. It is absolutely his right to do so and if each of you were contemplating such a huge purchase in a business/industry you are not familiar with I would hope you would consult a "professional" as well.

It is a shame that he may end up losing out of this place because he decided to get some additional help. While I don't fault the selling broker from trying to get the largest commission possible I do think it was absolutely wrong for them to call the OP to yell at them. The OP is a potential client whom he could make a lot of money from. What happens if he decides not to buy the place and it takes a few more months to get the place sold, and the person who ends up having a broker so the commission is split anyway? I think this was really handled unprofessionally.

the problem is that any schmuck can become a broker, and every schmuck does. Are there good brokers? Of course. Do brokers care primarily about the bottom line. Of course. Does that adversely affect your interests? Not necessarily. However, be very careful when dealing with these slug-like creatures. Use them accordingly, and they CAN benefit you, particularly on the sale side. ALWAYS negotiate the broker fee, like anything, and do not care about just walking away if they give you shit.

call the developer and tell them what happened. no one owns a customer and you are entitled to representation from any broker of your choice. no seller will be happy to know that his representative is making it difficult for a deal to close. you can still get the apartment if you want.

and yes I am a broker.

I am a broker and I learned that in a situation like this, when a buyer comes to an open house without a broker, twice even, the buyer will have to pay the buyers brokers commission when he/she wants to be represented in the deal.Buying is emotional and stressfull, we should be more considerate to people looking for a new home. It happened to me as well that a buyer came to my open house without being represented by a broker. He came back with one, we discussed it and I had him change the first sign-in sheet with the addition of his brokers name. Yes, it meant less commission, but I'd rather get a referral later and since I was the seller's broker, I did not want to represent both parties. Live and let live I think.

I want to sell my condo myself to save the 3.5% to 6% commission. Need recommedations for a good lawyer. How much is the fair attorney fee for the fsbo seller?

YOU are the buyer...DON'T KISS ASS!!! Those jerks should be the one's brown nosing, not you! And retaining a buyer side broker is a waste...they don't really don't have to do anything...your lawyer will actually do the real work that will be required. I think you should stand up for yourself and give broker B a piece of your mind and try to contact the owners of the unit and let them know what occurred...that worse that could happen is that you don't get to purchase the unit but the broker's character is exposed.

The first broker doesn't want to split the commission with the third broker. The fact that they are putting you in the middle of their swordfight is totally unprofessional. Remember, you are the buyer, they should cater to you. Let them serve you. Don't get caught up in their hissyfits.

This was originally posted 5 weeks ago. I'd love to know what happened here. I am completely behind the buyer & think he acted as he should for his best interests & comfort & that the seller's broker should at least be slapped & kicked for being a nasty human being. Hope that all worked out for him. So...............wha' happened?

who the hell ask there lawyer to negociate for them weird people.

Broker C is correct. You can choose to have a broker represent you at any point in the deal. Broker B is definitely giving you wrong information but I can understand his disappointment since he thought he had a direct deal with you. ****IT IS YOUR DECISION AND YOU SHOULD DO WHAT YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH--PERIOD.

Real Estate Agents/Brokers are for the retarded only.