HOW DO THEY DO IT? can you explain?

if at first you don't succeed...try, try again. how many times have you tried and been turned down?

Good point, but, what's the strategy? OK you want 1.7.....OK, I offer 35 cents???

Do you approch a seller that you want to low ball with 4 or 5 solid comps and a firm ask?
Do you just make a ton of low ball offers and wait for a desperado to bite?
I can think of a lot of possiblites but, what works? (I know these no one answer...I'll take 5)

i do believe i gave the same advice. look, look, offer, offer, thick skin.

determine what you will pay for a given product, and stick to that price. you've seen enough now to be able to put a psf (using recorded sales, not active listings) on a cookie-cutter white brick building, a smallish pre-war, etc, in a given location. and then you increase/decrease for view and light, condition, outdoor space, etc.

then you offer, either a firm offer and hold firm, or a lower one with room to negotiate. i prefer the former. enough reasonably fair offers and one will come through for you, although it may be a couple of months later even, when a deal doesn't go through.

keep good notes so you can prove your comps position. fire away.

Its probably less negotiating and more examples of sellers who were far off to begin with.

no magic...numbers game. do you play poker?

cant believe i'm addressing falco.
i did it, but then my girlfriend (soon to be ex) lost her job.
it was slightly over a $1mil original asking, negociated to about 20% off, with 2 parking spots, transfer taxes, and bigass storage space.
key is not to fall in love with a place (although still in love with it), make bids on others, and dont budge.
trust the facts, there's still not enough to justify the prices.
worst case, move in with me and back roll money, or move to a city where prices are more in line
cul8r

maybe try looking for sellers who really need to sell. sometimes you can read the desperation in the listing. get as much leverage as you can and then make them really want to work with you by being really nice about everything besides the price?

Make multiple offers on multiple properties.

You only need one to bite...

falco, I don't think they are doing it. It's just the exceptions that we post about, because they're interesting.

Here're the 141 latest co-op closings per SE, 23 days worth, broken into quintiles with range of listing discounts:

1st: -20.8% to -10.0%
2nd: -10.0% to -07.3%
3rd: -07.3% to -04.8% (median -6.3%)
4th: -04.8% to -03.2%
5th: -03.2% to +05.0%

It's the same old pattern we've been seeing for months: a few successful big lowballs, a few above asking, and the rest nothing interesting.

(Started out with 199 closings; these're the 141 with a match to a last-asking.)

I've done it in other times, other markets. #1 market timing, #2 you don't get emotionally attached, #3 use the shotgun approach and offer on multiple properties, being prepared to accept whichever one turns out to be the best deal. Then you live with it, even though it may not have been your first choice.

I only know the details of a few "lowball" successes on the UWS. In all instances, the broker indicated that the seller (usually an estate/relo) was very motivated to sell. All were on the market for a long time at unrealistic prices, some were mint condition (relo), some were in terrible condition (estate/other crazy situation). I can't be certain that the broker told everyone that the price was highly negotiable - I am known to quite a few UWS brokers and I come across as a serious potential buyer.

Falco, instead of moving towards a compromise keep lowering your bid by $50k everytime they look for a compromise :)

Like they want $1.5m u give them $1.4m. They go -- how about $1.45m? And you are like -- nah, $1.35m tops. They are like, OK, OK, I'll go w/ ur original $1.4m and you beat them again w/ $1.3m bid. They huff and puff, get mad, dont see other offers and come back at $1.35m. But urs already $1.25m. Then they get and they bid ahead for $1.2m.

Once u see how desp they are, you are like -- sonz, $900k for this POC or I walk away.

Heck, entire Asia does business that way.

NWT, yes, but the discount from initial ask has often been quite large. and recently i'm noticing final list to close being much closer, but final list being much more realistic.

i also think in falco's market it has been more prevalent than the market as a whole these days.

i don't think falco's question is necessarily about lowballing, it's about how to get the price to what he perceives the market level should be.

i agree, if one is out to lowball, with sisyphus 100%.

It's probably different with condos. I don't look at them because they're skewed by new construction and I'm not interested enough to bother.

Discount from initial ask is a whole other story. Those sellers have accepted the market, made their cuts, and feel OK with the old 6-7% off final ask. The numbers just don't show sellers being pushed through that process before they're ready. Plenty of exceptions, but still against the odds. Not that it hurts a buyer to give it a shot.

nwt, my market is condos. falco's isn't, necessarily. but i follow them all, some more hit than miss than others.

and in the 2+/2 not so extraordinarily special market things are finally starting to move. that's the one i was talking about, not the condo market.

Nothing wrong with falling in love, just know your limits. I personally can not have such a detachment from a property into which I intend to invest my life savings and the better part of my years. I don't search for things I can't afford. I know the market, I know what I like and when I find it, I have no problem falling in love. In fact, if I don't fall in love, forget it. Why bother? I never tried searching outside my limits with an intention to bring a seller down into my comfort zone. I'd rather test my lower limit and challenge myself to find something workable well within my budget. To me vibe is worth more than $$. I have discovered that deals are easier to find than the right place.

Are you more likely to get a lowball offer accepted if you are paying with cash, as opposed to needing mortgage approval?

Absolutely, austinkm. I sold an apt a few years ago. I had only one offer, all-cash, 5% below ask from a well-known family. Before the contract signing, I would not have entertained a higher offer unless that person signed a contract immediately, and presented a certified check for 20%.

I'm not under pressure to jump on any particular property. It's the old story of wanting to be a property owner and timing. These transactions are the work of amateurs for the most part. Are that many property sharks out there these days in this market? All small fish like myself. Understanding negotiating techniques under these specific conditions is really what I'm after. I'm passed 'the love factor' and the idea of multiple bids seems ok but I rarely find mult. properties that I would interested in. As far as threats, reduced bidding and, adverserial approchments are concerned I have never found them to be particularly fruitful. I do like the idea of presenting comprehensive comping with a firm price where there is just enough room for a reasonable token capitulation. I would be requesting any counter offer be justified via comping. I might be living a fantacy.