No Washer Dryer in a Co-op Unit???

Many co-ops are concerned about the stress of the washing machines on the building's water infrastructure, or the risk of leaks. I think this is unreasonable, given the quality of modern machines.

My condo doesn't allow washing machines: If I can get on the board, I am going to try to change this.

You must have heard the same words that I did: "stress of the washing machines on the building's water infrastructure"...

So I can better understand the issue, what is more stressful about washing machine water flowing through a pipe than regular water? Am I missing something? What would the arguments be to reverse a ban?

I don't have an answer to your question, but I have a somewhat related question: is it possible to install a W/D in an apartment that was not built to accomodate one? In other words, assuming I have the closet space, can I hire someone to create the hook-ups to my building's (condo) water lines so that I can put a W/D in my apartment? Other units in my building have W/D, so I know they are allowed...but those units were built with hook-ups...mine wasn't for some reason (it's a smaller unit). Thanks in advance for any help!

The infrastructure was built to support the bathrooms and kitchens in the building, not a washing machine in every unit.

The argument in favor of reversing a ban is that modern washing machines are pretty efficient and use much less water than older models, and moderm machines (when properly installed) do not pose the same leak risks as older models or improperly installed units.

#4, I live in a condo where some of the units have washer/dryers. That was years ago, under a different management company and a different board. Now, the board will not approve any renovations that include installing a washing machine.

I would ask before doing too much research.

#4 here.

#6, thanks for the feedback. So...you're saying it's possible? haha. I'll have to ask the mgmt company. But I just wanted to see if it was even possible/feasible (not ridiculously expensive) before starting to inquire too deeply. Anyone else with experience on this issue?

None of this adressess the primary issue why W/D are not allowed in most units.

Officially, dryers must be vented DIRECTLY to the outside. Interior W/D are used, but not technically legal. And obviously, if people hooked them up wherever in their units and ran ductwork out their windows, you'd have an ugly mess.

My parents live below someone who has a w/d. Over the last 10 years, there have been at least 3 instances where the upstairs neighbor forgot to put the pipe in the toilet or whatever. Anyway, the damn thing flooded my parents' place each time (along with the apt below them as well). Unfortunately, its a rental, and its rent controlled, so they dont want to move out.

Are washers different now? My parents have a washer as well, and the dirty water goes out a a tube that you hook onto the toilet before using the machine. If you forget... flood. If the tube breaks... flood.

The dryer exhaust is also a problem, as someone mentioned above. In my coop, we have to get specific ACs, so that the front of the building looks uniform. Imagine if there were dryer exhaust tubes at random windows. That would be pretty ugly too.

Dryers do not have to be vented directly to the outside. Today, there are ventless dryers. I personally don't like them, but they are an option. You can also have an interior W/D that is properly vented. I installed one on my parent's condo. It isn't a big project.

If you have a proper washing machine hook up, you do not have to put the washing machine output in the sink/shower/or toilet.

Two things that come to my mind is that lint is highly flammable (saw a piece on TV recently about this) and if you don't shut the water supply off after using the machines & the hoses fail, FLOOD. #9, your parents may not want to move from their rent controlled apartment but they could probably proceed legally against the people upstairs, no?

#10, if the apartment doesn't have a proper washing machine hookup, is it possible to install one? Is there a way to link to the building's pipe system?

The number one reason that many whole buildings don't allow in-unit w/d is that laundry-room operators' contracts require buildings to disallow them -- non-competition. Some boards won't insist on removing those clauses because they value the revenue stream from the laundry companies; they don't want to raise maintenance to compensate for it. I know all of that doesn't apply to buildings that allow them in some units.

Dryer venting is not, unfortunately and stupidly, required in NYC even in new construction with w/d hookups. For traditional dryers, there are nearly useless "indoor venting" kits that blow the moist linty air down into a bucket of bacteria-breeding water. But the newer, bigger unvented dryers are great, unlike their older, smaller brethren. Try LG's superjumbo all-in-one unvented combo -- it takes your laundry straight through from wash to dry if you want it to.

As for load on plumbing, I think the big issue is waste-line suds, which can back into other apartments, but newer detergents with the (h*e) logo are low-sudsing and reduce that problem.

Another issue in some buildings is the vibration caused by the spin cycle, which can drive neighbors crazy. I bet there's an underlayment that can absorb that though.

Lastly, the cost of hot water has traditionally been a concern for landlords, and that carried over to coops.

Assuming your building doesn't have a restrictive laundry-room contract, I'd approach your board with a written proposal addressing each issue (venting, suds, vibration, permanent hookup with burst-proof hoses) and ask for permission to install an all-in-one.

#13, thank you for that post. I'm an engineer and know well why W/D can't all be used in every co op. I was just about to comment on the suds and vibrations as well.

#13 here. #14, do you know of any vibration-absorbing padding that's used under washers? And am I right that (h*e) detergent eliminates waste-line backup?

#13, I've seen hard rubber matting used but if the washer/dryer is out of alignment (ie. the floor is slanted) and without proper adjustment of the footing, it will vibrate loudly regardless.

I've seen the low sud detergents but you can't possibly police that so it's not even worth enforcing.

this is the reason that I will NEVER buy a co-op again; every new condo seems to be able to put them in . . . I think it is some kind of weird co-op commie angle . . . "everyone does their laundry together"

except all of the rich people have their maids do it

stupid

LEAKS IS THE ONLY REASON! None of the others is as much as of a concern then the leaks from washers. Washers are for 90% of the time the reason why there are water damages in buildings especially in pre-war it's a big issue.

I got 2 into two different pre-war co-ops without anyone noticing or complaining. Once is it installed right it doesn't bother anybody.
Co-ops should not have a problem with a licenced plumber installed w/d. I guess they are more concerned about water usage.

New washers use less than a bucket of water. Meaning, you can litarally use a bucket for the discharge. With my old w/d I used thick carpet as an absorber and it worked like a charm, and for the last one(bosch) it really didn't need anything. As far as the suds go; detergents with he(high effeciency) is available in most supermarkets.

So it is easy to regulate usage of W/D's but nobody is interested.
And I'm not interested washing my newborn's cloths in a machine that is used for whatever else.

Maybe there's an easy answer to this: why do many co-ops that were constructed many decades ago now allow for the "modern" convenience of a dishwasher, but not for a washer/dryer? OK, some of the reasons mentioned above may be valid (vibration, suds, laundry room operators' conspiracy, commie attitudes etc...), but it seems that the primary reasons of hot water usage and leaks would remain potential problems with either applicance.

tah18 -- you're basically right, but dishwashers use much less water than washing dishes by hand, so they were probably an easier sell when they first became acceptable to landlords (and later the coops that adopted their norms). Cost-savings on hot water, and minimal damage risk. But tah18's absolutely right. If only the appliance industry would switch entirely to low water-usage machines, and the detergent industry to (hE) products.

Meanwhile, there's a certain logical gaffe, because the 6 people in my family can take ten baths a day each, often letting the water overflow the tub, while you who live alone only take a 3-minute cold shower once a week so you're nice and clean for church the next day.

#21 here -- I meant #19 in my second sentence.