Anytime someone makes a comment about real estate getting a little pricey, quite a few people here get defensive. If you have to keep listing and throwing out all the reasons buying in Manhattan is so great (clubs, close to work, restaurants, museums, shows) you may be trying to hard. Your constant justifications are a reflection of your own doubts. If you really were so sure prices were right,... [more]
Anytime someone makes a comment about real estate getting a little pricey, quite a few people here get defensive. If you have to keep listing and throwing out all the reasons buying in Manhattan is so great (clubs, close to work, restaurants, museums, shows) you may be trying to hard. Your constant justifications are a reflection of your own doubts. If you really were so sure prices were right, you'd just buy and not have to reflexively overreact to someone who posts a differing opinion on a message board. Buying would be easy and come very naturally and you wouldnt have to cover up your inner anxieties here. In reality you are not so sure, and inside you are very nervous so any post contradicting your shaky belief prices will keep going higher puts you in a state of inner turmoil. You come to this board in order to quell your fear, hoping to find some encouragement and get away from that nagging feeling inside that slowly intrudes into your thoughts telling you maybe prices are too high and may in the near future start trending down.
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 1183
Member since: Feb 2007
Hmmmm - I would have to say as a sanguine and comfortable property owner that you simply sound like a bitter renter. Otherwise you wouldn't take all the time and energy to compose the post you did.
I guess it's tough watching the world and life pass you by as the sad, sorry realization slowly sets in that you'll always be on the outside looking in at the banquet, but never be able to actually participate. Poor, poor baby......
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 631
Member since: Sep 2006
OP, so much negative energy....ewww. Pls reserve your verbage for when you have something constructive to say.
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 104
Member since: Jan 2007
well, i am a comfortable property owner too looking to upgrade, but i do feel property is too high. Specifically on the UES, I would like to rent my apartment, but the prices i can get are so good (way above rent). Moreover, there are direct examples of 2BR apartments in the building which rent for under $4000 but sell for monthly payments over $6500. Even with tax breaks and equity allowances, it is cheaper to rent. When I bought 7 years ago, all apartments worked out from 20% to 30% cheaper than rent. The numbers may differ in other neighborhoods, but it is the reality on the UES. Long term owners (over 8 years) I know agree. With price weakness in Westchester, long island and CT, I am worried if i do not sell into this strong market now; I may lose my chance this get this premium.
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 631
Member since: Sep 2006
#4, why do you think this is only on the UES? Is it because that's where you've been looking? I ask because rents & prices are up all over Manhattan, so if you do the rent vs. buy calc you'd probably find the same thing.
I recently bought for the first time and found that overall it was definitely worth it for me to buy. I may have found a cheaper place to rent but with the risk that my rent could increase substantially. But with the tax break it's a no-brainer decision for me.
It all depends on your expectations.
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 1183
Member since: Feb 2007
#4:
Yes, it may be cheaper slightly to rent - right now - in your situation. But you say you bought 7 years ago. In another 15 years, do you still think it will be as cheap to rent in 2022 (assuming 3% per annum compounded rent increases) as your current mortage and maintenance payments? This is a l-o-n-g term game.
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 1627
Member since: Jan 2007
I own an apt on the UES and rent it out.Let me tell you something if if think rents vs owning is only better on the UES you are sadly mistaken. Try your calculations in GV, Tribeca and Soho.
The number still come out the same for being cheaper to rent than to own there as well. Granted the UES is cheaper to live than SOHO but the bottom line is the rent to own costs difference are about the same throughout the city.
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 104
Member since: Jan 2007
Yes, only speak for my situation, but it is cheaper to rent for me. I only speak for the UES 1 BR and 2/3 BR market b/c that is what I know very well. Rents do tend to be a lower, but prices are just as high. I am a financial analyst and my 6 year model does account for modest rent increases,all transaction costs (buy and sell), as well after tax return on my principal investment lost to a 5.1% MM account. The reason why the equation has clearly shifted to renting has shifted is because of higher MM rates available on my money and higher mortgage rates. If the Fed cuts 150 basis on rates owning would be better as it was before 2004, but not the case now. Hence, may sell now and wait and see as some much condo supply enters this neighborhood in next two years.. I will buy again, just not now. Think it is a sucker's market.
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 456
Member since: Mar 2007
#7, I live in tribeca where a 2000sqft 3BR recently rented for $15K.
At those rents the rent vs buy decision is not as easy as you make out.
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 631
Member since: Sep 2006
#9 are you agreeing with #7 or are you saying that $15k rent per month is cheap?
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Response by anonymous
about 19 years ago
Posts: 456
Member since: Mar 2007
Not agreeing with #7, though it is hard to follow their reasoning when they own and rent out (why take the loss?) and not saying 15k pm os cheap.
20k is the going rate in that building now and that is the equivalent paying piti on a 3.2MM purchase.
Rents in tribeca are so high that it tips the balance in favor of buying.
Hmmmm - I would have to say as a sanguine and comfortable property owner that you simply sound like a bitter renter. Otherwise you wouldn't take all the time and energy to compose the post you did.
I guess it's tough watching the world and life pass you by as the sad, sorry realization slowly sets in that you'll always be on the outside looking in at the banquet, but never be able to actually participate. Poor, poor baby......
OP, so much negative energy....ewww. Pls reserve your verbage for when you have something constructive to say.
well, i am a comfortable property owner too looking to upgrade, but i do feel property is too high. Specifically on the UES, I would like to rent my apartment, but the prices i can get are so good (way above rent). Moreover, there are direct examples of 2BR apartments in the building which rent for under $4000 but sell for monthly payments over $6500. Even with tax breaks and equity allowances, it is cheaper to rent. When I bought 7 years ago, all apartments worked out from 20% to 30% cheaper than rent. The numbers may differ in other neighborhoods, but it is the reality on the UES. Long term owners (over 8 years) I know agree. With price weakness in Westchester, long island and CT, I am worried if i do not sell into this strong market now; I may lose my chance this get this premium.
#4, why do you think this is only on the UES? Is it because that's where you've been looking? I ask because rents & prices are up all over Manhattan, so if you do the rent vs. buy calc you'd probably find the same thing.
I recently bought for the first time and found that overall it was definitely worth it for me to buy. I may have found a cheaper place to rent but with the risk that my rent could increase substantially. But with the tax break it's a no-brainer decision for me.
It all depends on your expectations.
#4:
Yes, it may be cheaper slightly to rent - right now - in your situation. But you say you bought 7 years ago. In another 15 years, do you still think it will be as cheap to rent in 2022 (assuming 3% per annum compounded rent increases) as your current mortage and maintenance payments? This is a l-o-n-g term game.
I own an apt on the UES and rent it out.Let me tell you something if if think rents vs owning is only better on the UES you are sadly mistaken. Try your calculations in GV, Tribeca and Soho.
The number still come out the same for being cheaper to rent than to own there as well. Granted the UES is cheaper to live than SOHO but the bottom line is the rent to own costs difference are about the same throughout the city.
Yes, only speak for my situation, but it is cheaper to rent for me. I only speak for the UES 1 BR and 2/3 BR market b/c that is what I know very well. Rents do tend to be a lower, but prices are just as high. I am a financial analyst and my 6 year model does account for modest rent increases,all transaction costs (buy and sell), as well after tax return on my principal investment lost to a 5.1% MM account. The reason why the equation has clearly shifted to renting has shifted is because of higher MM rates available on my money and higher mortgage rates. If the Fed cuts 150 basis on rates owning would be better as it was before 2004, but not the case now. Hence, may sell now and wait and see as some much condo supply enters this neighborhood in next two years.. I will buy again, just not now. Think it is a sucker's market.
#7, I live in tribeca where a 2000sqft 3BR recently rented for $15K.
At those rents the rent vs buy decision is not as easy as you make out.
#9 are you agreeing with #7 or are you saying that $15k rent per month is cheap?
Not agreeing with #7, though it is hard to follow their reasoning when they own and rent out (why take the loss?) and not saying 15k pm os cheap.
20k is the going rate in that building now and that is the equivalent paying piti on a 3.2MM purchase.
Rents in tribeca are so high that it tips the balance in favor of buying.