Holiday Tipping

"Our building manager prints out a list for all the tenants and we send it up with the mail. I dont know if that is the same way they do it in rentals."

I know at least a few rental places that do that. My garage guys do a card with all their names in it. And, come to think of it, so do the guys in the building at work.

just wanted to mention I dont think it is a good idea to leave a lump sum check for all the workers because sometimes the super takes a long time to cash them and then he has to wait for them to clear. Ive had to deal with the uncomortable nature of seeing some tenants wonder why we havent thanked them when they had already given to us a week earlier. I personally thank each and every tenant and look forward to telling them how much I appreciate their gift. Even if I dont see the tenant for like 4 or 5 months after I receive the gift ( a lot o people go away for winter) I will still thank them when they come back.

Kevin, thank you, this is really helpful. I will take the sealed envelope and list approach, and I trust our doormen to convey the tips to the recipients. Thanks for the advice!

and so, i may be the last to realize it on this thread, but i guess i'm just cheap. hubby thinks $300 for super and $200 for porter and then snobbily reminded me how much we pay in rent each month. it all makes me cringe. it's true, the guys work hard. i need to stop being stingy :(

Uwsmom: those are generous numbers given what you've said about your building and the length of your tenure. If you can afford it, it will buy a LOT of goodwill. If it doesn't, don't tip as much next year.

yeah, it seems like a lot to me...
we'll see.

uwsmom, it is generous. but if it cuts into too much, there is nothing wrong with $200-250 for the super and $100 for the porter. if you can afford more, do so. these are tough times. but if it really is a stretch, don't do it.

read Kevin's posts (and thank you VERY much btw for posting). a professional will never not provide you service because you don't tip, that's not why you tip. but it is undeniable that tipping can get you a higher level of service. plus, i really like our super. he is teaching our daughter spanish phrases for fun. he's the nicest guy.

simple math = 100 apartments * $500 / 10 people = $5000 / each worker. $50 each is more then enough.

You've been there, 3 months? If you are truly balking at $500, I would start at 150 for super and 100 for porter. Then if you are very pleased by the service, give 150 & 100 in 3-4 months time.

In the "fancy" buildings, the doormen often make significantly more in tips than they make the rest of the year in salary.

I always have a problem in my own building because we only have a part-time super, I take my own trash out, I never ask him for anything (hell, I don't think I've SEEN him in months), but OTOH I don't want to chisel the guy out of an important part of his income stream.

"This is one of those New York things that is part of life here. I know it seems crazy expensive if you're not from around here (and I'm not, and it does). But as kevin5 points out, gratuities are a big part of the compensation of these employees and if we stopped tipping, eventually our monthlies would go up, we would lose the best staff people, and for both reasons our apartments would be harder to sell someday."

I'm sorry, but that's bullshit.

I'm sick of this annual holiday mob-style shakedown being justified by the fact that "it's just how things are done here in New York."

My building, for one, changed that several years ago. We give building employees a modest holiday bonus, with the stipulation that they are not to accept tips from shareholders, period. It's worked fabulously, and there has yet to be a single staff defection to another building.

In this economy, they should just be damn thankful they have a job. That's more than we can say for many of the owner-shareholders who live in the building.

NYCMatt - You sound like an out of the box asshole. People who make $40k a year don't have the luxury of being able to save a significant emergency cushion in case they do get laid off. The owners/shareholders should have been saving all along.

New Yorkers may be neurotic, annoying, whining, self-obsessed and many other less-than-ideal things but being generous is one thing that we can and should be proud of. You should move to a red state.

NYC Matt is on target once again. Holiday tipping has gone too far. 2 years ago I tipped the NYC Sanitation guys who service my block. Last year they kept hounding me for $. Sorry fellas, but I was in job transition unlike your DC37 protected taxpayer funded positions. I'm sick of it too NYC Matt - if I have it and more importantly, if it's justified, I give.
Scoots - People who aren't happy making $40K per year should pull their butts off the couch and do something to better themselves. The world would be better for it instead of this incessant bleeding heart whining.

Time for a plug for the excellent http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Doormen/Peter-S-Bearman/e/9780226039695/

"People who make $40k a year don't have the luxury of being able to save a significant emergency cushion in case they do get laid off."

That's not my problem. If they want a cushion, they should get another job, work a second job, or do what the rest of us did -- work our asses off to make ourselves more marketable for higher-paying jobs.

I'll be perfectly honest. I don't really care how much any of these people make. My incentive to tip well is purely selfish. i want to be at the top of the list if i need something done. (Though, i do like our guys and our porter is super helpful and very deserving of a nice bonus.)

These stories are great. I don't think of it so much as quid pro quo, since we don't ask the guys to do anything outside of all the background stuff we never see, but rather as holding up my end of a social compact. That's just what it costs to live like this, whatever this is.

Re: the super, I'm in 30yrs' camp, though I'm sure he knows more about his building than the super does. E.g. our old off-label flushometers get out of whack every few years. I have ... uh ... control issues, and so will make a major project out of fixing my own. My husband, OTOH, not wanting to wait weeks for me to get around to it, will just put in a work ticket, the super gets it done same day, the nominal cost appears on the maintenance statement, and that's it.

LOL @ NYCMatt. "Annual holiday mob-style shakedown".

I no longer tip building staff during holidays. Only when I need something done, I'll tip, and even then not a lot. Works like a charm.

The overblown sense of entitlement of tippees, and the snobery of extravagant tippers is what finally turned me off tipping. I used to overtip everywhere I went. I was spreading around my money as if it grew on trees - to waiters, salons, cabs, bartenders, building staff...But one day I realized, it wasn't getting me anything.

No more. Only when I REALLY need you, RIGHT NOW, to truly get better service where it matters (getting a bikini wax, LOL, or fixing something in the apartment, or getting a nice drink) - THEN I'll tip well. Otherwise, call me a cheapskate, I don't care. It's my money, and it doesn't grow on trees. No more tipping just because "it's expected".

of course it works now. people are desperate, there are no alternative jobs. something that matt conveniently ignores.

but the job over the years implied a certain salary and a certain bonus, just like many other jobs in the city. unlike some others, the staff in buildings have continued to perform their duties, and usually but not always well. so matt, your theory doesn't hold. because it wasn't a $40k job or whatever that they signed up for, it was a job plus a bonus. it may be possible for you to rewrite the rules now, because you're a nasty tightfisted asshole, but it is the equivalent of wage deflation. plenty of businesses are doing it, across the country, so you're not alone. but you are affecting the QOL of the people who work for you, to the extent that cost deflation doesn't keep up with the wage deflation.

me, the welfare queen who expects the landlord to repair fixtures that are owned by the landlord(gasp!!), i'll tip generously to the people who provide services. they improve my life.

AR - you tip the super, what about the porters? (you never mentioned them in your holiday tipping- it was just to the super) And the guy who fixed your toilet seat? Did you tip him? Probably not, as that was the LL's responsibility (of course if you owned the apartment you'd have tipped, right?) Oh, I forgot, you're hoping to buy the apartment way under market, after TS tanks.

Would be fun to see how you'd get a mortgage on that.

murray you're an asshole but you raise some decent points. we don't have doormen or porters. i know that under metlife the employees were paid very well here, above average for the city. but i don't know about now. yes, i did tip the guy who replaced the toilet seat. only $10, but it took him 10 minutes, once he came with a toilet seat.

i will ask management if there is a collection that occurs for the other staff. and if there is i will give $750 to it. it there is not, i can't think of how it would be possible to tip the staff.

and in terms of the mortgage? if it's tenant owned, my guess is that financing will be available. my building was, for example, largely market. and many of those stinkin' wealthy RS drains on society would buy as well, also primarily for children. i'd be buying for my daughter, long term, so i wouldn't care if it were illiquid. and depending on the price, all cash is always an option.

hate away. but it raises your blood pressure so try to moderate it.

What's the big f'ing deal about this toilet seat? Some people call the super if they need their nose picked, and some never ask for anything. The lousy toilet seat seems to fall somewhere in the middle, if we're keeping track. (I'd get my own, myself, for fear of ending up with those plastic hinges.)

aboutready, you really are talking about other people's blood pressure? I've never seen so many curses flying, except when you are adding a new toilet story to the mix. Two days ago we learned about your broken toilet seat, yesterday we learned about your toilet plunger story on Christmas eve in the late 80s.

Can we get some kitchen stories?

AR - of course you have "other staff". Who do you think takes out your garbage, cleans your hallways, etc. Maybe the use of the term porter is confusing - in my building the porters are the ones who do that.

So, you haven't tipped them in the past - though they perform these services, they are invisible to you? You're around a lot - look for them as I do.

And right - can't get mortgages now when not more than 50% (?) owned - so how will all those "poor" longtime RS tenants be able to buy now? And "your" building is, despite what you'd like to think, part of the larger PCV complex - can't segregate it out, at least not in lenders' eyss.

Oh right, the "poor" tenants will sell their country houses

Nice to know you're determining where your daughter will live when she reaches adulthood. Watch out, children don't always appreciate the decisions their parents make for them. Gasp- she might want to be on the UES? Or Tribeca? The Village? Murray Hill? You keep on saying NY real estate is a bad idea . Why not just invest your money and give it to her? She might like that better.

and Ar - may be an upleasant fact for you, but disagreeing with you does not make me a "hater", just someone who disagrees with you, which is something you do not like.

please, murray, we have people who take care of the lawns, this is a MASSIVE complex. how naive.

of course you can segregate a building. it has a separate address. you must be joking.

and no, i'm not determining where my daughter will live when she grows up. although we have discussed this thoroughly with her, and she understands our goals, and over time we will gift it to her, she is very much in favor of our buying here as an estate planning move. i will not buy any property that doesn't allow my duaghter to inherit, nor that doesn't allow renting. i can't guarantee the future, but if the tenants buy here the goal will be flexibility.

surprise, surprise. as a family we discuss these things. it affects us all, we all have a say.

BORING

Tell us about the toilet plunger again.

AR -the porters in your building? Only the ones in your building? Invisible to you?

Love the idea of a 12 year old determing family's financial policies. Of course she agrees with you - who would look a gift horse in the mouth? She'd probably sell it as fast as she can.

murray, are you calling aboutready a horse?

Even I haven't stooped that low.

give it up....you're the same two stupid posters.

bfs - that is a ridiculous comment - I am not trying to insult (as you are), just ask questions.

oh, columbiacounty, I was wondering when aboutready would log off and relogin as you. She's been taking a beating lately.

do you have anything to contribute? we get it...you don't approve. who cares? your endless drivel about toilet seats is making you look like an idiot.

bfs - believe me, I AM NOT cc

columbiacounty, give us one contribution you've made. Just go cut and paste anything you've said that is worthwhile in the past month.

you don't have a teenager, do you? and it will be in trust, and she knows that. she will NEVER be able to sell it, unless our hand-picked trustees allow it. and they know our wishes. she'll never starve before selling, but no husband will get her property in a divorce.

there are NOOOO porters in our building. none. we have one super who i see every single day. he is teaching us spanish. but i've been here for close to six years. all other employees who show up here are from the complex, not the building. that doesn't mean they don't deserve a tip, i just don't know the mechanism for this type of a complex. we have security guards, a management office, huge numbers of grounds keepers. i am a bit embarrassed to admit that i only thought about the people who serve me directly, so thank you for bringing it up, but i doubt i'll be able to remedy it.

but keep up the efforts to discredit. have fun.

here's one columbiacounty, this seems to be the extent of it:

aboutready
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/closethome/view/?utm_campaign=homepage&utm_medium=proglist&utm_source=proglist

if this has already been posted, my apologies, but i couldn't find it.

columbiacounty
watched about 1/2 so far....speechless.

"you don't have a teenager, do you? and it will be in trust, and she knows that. she will NEVER be able to sell it, unless our hand-picked trustees allow it. and they know our wishes. she'll never starve before selling, but no husband will get her property in a divorce."

aboutready, Our Lady of the Toilet Seat Welfare Queen, are you assuming your daughter is destined for divorce? What a horrible thing to assume.

hsf, you're an absolute idiot. he's obviously male, i'm obviously female. nobody here, and i mean nobody, other than you, thinks we might be the same person.

feeling foolish yet? you really should be.

oh come on now, how many threads are started by you where the first commenter is columbiacounty?

another lie

Actually, in my will, which does include teenagers - the money I leave them,until they turn 31, can be used ONLY for education or for THEIR residential real estate, which I think is a really good way to leave money to younger people, don't you?

Hope your trustees know what you would do. Knew someone several years ago, husband died, daughter in college, handpicked trustee was not going to release the funds to pay tuition. took some major lobbying by the wife (widow) to convince the trustee that her husband, the child's father, really would have wanted her to remain in college

by the way, what makes you "obviously female"?

murray, are you trying to say that aboutready is too controlling of her daughter?

bfs - can you please stay out of this?

come to the next SE gathering!! you'll see, as others have, that i'm female. i don't hide, unlike you.

hsf, do you have children (somehow i doubt it)? do you pay market rate or own (i think you're so bitter you're about to acidify yourself)? what are you adding (nothing. your total assholic nature is free for all to see and all you do is insult me, hardly a net positive for a board)?

but you amuse me, so keep it up. i hope your private parts get smashed in a RS toilet seat.

I amuse you?

Earlier today you said I was boring.

Which one is it?

Liar

murray, my will is actually more restrictive. age is higher.

but the college money is safe. separate fund. not part of trust, and will be the domain of my husband's sister who i trust implicitly, and who has nothing to gain by hindering the process.

but it's great that we bring this up. because it's very, very important. and so few people think about it.

sometimes you're very repetitive, then i'm bored. other times i'm amused. depends on my mood. i'm a fickle wench.

aboutready, if she truly is YOUR daughter, shouldn't she be ENTITLED to the money whenever she wants it?

you aren't really that fickle.

you have a consistent theme of doing or saying whatever benefits you exclusively

nice use of caps, stupid.

oh good one thanks columbiacounty. Let me guess, when aboutready logs off and logs in as columbiacounty, she pretends she's stupid so as to throw us off.

nope. we are definitely different people. you on the other hand are clearly a nut job.

tell us columbiacounty, how have you contributed to streeteasy other than making half-witted comments? Remember not to confuse yourself with the insightful postings of aboutready.

AR - also think of post-grad. And maybe make the age a little younger. And possibly let her make the property decisions at an appropriate age. (not in her 40's for god's sake)

columbiacounty, tell us that story again about you and the toilet plunger on Christmas eve in the 1980s.

what does hfs stand for, stupid?

AR - I meant younger than 40's, not older

come on columbiacounty, first I've challenged you to show us one single contribution in the past month.

hey asshole, you don't make the rules.

oh, you do? right, you are the entitled one. I mean, your "other" personality is the entitled one.

columbiacounty, either show us one single contribution in the past month or entertain us by telling that story again about you and the toilet plunger on Christmas eve in the 1980s.

The cursing by both AR and CC does sound very simi"liar" AR is the NYC poster and CC is her upstate property owner alter-ego.

murray, there are different trigger points for different things. and of course they can be revised as we and she get older. now we're being very conservative, being the parents of an only child where we have ZERO good options for a guardian. my sister-in-law is wonderful, but travels almost two-thirds of the year. the other hubby siblings all live in HORRIBLE school districts. they are quite nice, but only one of the three had children, and for that one the kids are both out of the house and neither went to more than one semester of college. neither of my brother's kids went to college either.

but i respect your opinion. and sorry if i lumped you together with others. it's kind of difficult when so many new people show up at once to tell who is who.

yeah, must get confusing, all of these other posters, your own couple of posting names, your various inconsistent positions, all the people who "owe" you money today.

"she is very much in favor of our buying here as an estate planning move"

Can you explain why buying an apt is an estate planning move? I don't see an advantage.

Also, why the prohibition on your daughter selling the apartment? If it is held in a trust, the proceeds go to the trust, either way it remains away from creditors and her husband. What if she is living in California or something? And if co-op restricts subletting, she would end up with an empty apt, no income, but carrying costs.

Plus, in general, I don't think it is a good idea to discuss the idea of both parents dying in the near future with your kids. First, it is unlikely to happen, and second, I doubt the kids will feel any better afterwards having talked about it.

Wow modern. Any more issues with my decision making?

I personally think that death is greatly overmystified in our society. Raise your kids as you wish. Mine is aware that I could get hit by a car tomorrow. Or given that between the two parents there are 14 children and 12 have had cancer she is aware of both my risk and hers.

I'm providing all the love imaginable but immortality is beyond my ability to provide. My kid is dealing very well with those issues although of course they're not easy. But her grandmother died just before she turned five and my father died three years ago so the conversation has been a natural extension of circumstance. Although I'd really like to think I would have found the opportunity to bring it up anyway. It's an important discussion and death doesn't always wait until people are ready for it.

Let me clarify, I am not saying you shouldn't discuss it with your kid, I am simply stating my opinion and how I would deal with it. I think it is a personal decision and no right or wrong answer. I wouldn't do it.

Still curious as to why buying a co-op is an estate planning measure. I don't see how it would matter.

Modern. The restrictions? Because I don't want anyone using it to manipulate her decisions.

We really have discussed it. And I'd put my daughters reasoning level and maturity up against the average person any day. She very cogently presented many of my reasons without my prompting.

The aboutready family has learned very well how to take from others what they feelthey are entitled to, and naturally the next step is to keep their wealth in the family.

what about the the hfs family?

hey stupid, you don't get to ask the questions.

brilliant.

got to try to come up with your own material.

hey columbiacounty, when do you go away and aboutready comes back?

tell us about the hfs family.

do you have any stories about your toilet seat?

still waiting to hear about your family.

first tell us how you broke the toilet seat

hey...shove the fucking toilet seat up your ass.

the broken one or the one you had your landlord replace?

what the fuck is your point here?

don't fall apart on me now columbiacounty, w67th hasn't even gotten here to really break you

oh stupid...i am not falling apart. what the fuck are you trying to prove?

go back and reread your postings if you think you aren't falling apart

whats your point? who cares? nobody.

when does aboutready come back at "your" defense?

actually ar just got back from a lovely meal she had with her husband in midtown.

hsf, if you consider lying to be unsubstantiated assertions, you really are at the top of the heap.

i don't care, at all, you amuse me, but your logic is so awful as to be pitiful.

carry on. you do amuse us. and we would like to know exactly how you purport to add value to this society. feel free to make something up, we'll be able to tell.

hsf, are you fatist? we don't have any overweight people in our household but maybe that's what you're trying to imply? if so that's just nasty. and you're a true fucktard if you think that.

after 5 years the hinges on our toilet broke. i find this incredibly fascinating. that some people care SOOO much about my toilet seat, which was, of course, actually my ll's toilet seat.

get a life people. if you want a new toilet seat that you buy at HD, good on you. if you want your landlord to do so, who has the obligation to provide you with a new one, good on you.

how did this go from a helpful conversation about holiday tipping to THIS ??????????????

re2009, sorry. really.

AR,

I am in the process of revising my estate planing (I do it every 5 years), and was curious if there was some reason to include restrictions on selling a property. You haven't given any reasons, and I can't think of any.

Here is a tip for you. Make your daughter a co-trustee at a young age, say 25, but without the power to remove the other co-trustee. That will give her experience in managing the trust but she can't get into too much trouble. At a higher age, say 40, you can give here the power to remove the co-trustee, which in effect gives her control, but with many years of cooperation and experience she hopefully uses it wisely.

modern, thanks. i have that. she is one of three trustees. at 40 she has the right to replace the other two with her choices.

i'm leaving her millions. nobody is going to marry her thinking they have unfettered access to them. paranoid? maybe. this property will be for her and her only.

AR - you mean that she will still have co-trustees after she's 40? You certainly don't seem to have as much trust in her as you have said. And you speak as if she will be some major heiress, who will have people sniffing around just because of her money - come on. I know someone who actually IS a major heiress (from overseas), and believe me,at 28 she has a head on her shoulders and has been raised to be capable of making informed decisions about her life. You do seem to be a little be over-controlling here (though you probably consider it being protective).

And, you really shouldn't post things on this board like "I'm leaving her millions" - people do remember your saying that you couldn't qualify for a mortgage or pass a coop board now, so couldn't purchase an apartment you'd really like.

heard of life insurance? idiot.

Certainly hope you have a very long life and that she'll be in her 60's or 70's when she gets the money - at which point don't really think anyone will be marrying her for her money (then again, at that age, they just might)

Sorry - I thought for some reason you were talking about money that you and your husband MADE, as in EARNED, an actual INHERITANCE

murray, i never said we don't have money that we've EARNED. i said we don't have enough liquid to buy the type of property in a coop we'd like. i wouldn't touch a condo right now for anything. so i'm kind of limited. of course if we live as long as you are kind enough to hope for, she'll hopefully have a lot more. we're planning on saving at least 50% of our take-home pay for at least 25 years.

but i'm also awfully cheap, so i doubt i'd be tempted by the coop i'd like even if i had scads of money. it's just not in my nature, but for some reason i include it in my calculations. the grand coop wouldn't make me happy.

do whatever makes sense for you in your estate planning. i've read the price of motherhood, every parent of a daughter should, and i have one daughter. she knows that she is lucky, and doesn't care about the strings i'm attaching for her.

Back from Halloween night.

So aboutready I notice that the lovely meal you had in midtown last evening took less than 1 hour between posts. (and your alter-ego columbiacounty managed to fill in that time).
So you got from StuyTown, to catch your husband between $800/hour billings (I'm estimating) to one of his corporate clients (damn evil corporations!!) and back.
I won't call you a liar on that count, I suppose that it is possible.
So today, back to your discussion with Murray. I notice that you also posted how you geniunely care about people on streeteasy with some exceptions (I have no delusions about where I fit in), and you've already called Murray an idiot this morning.
Nice.