Holiday Tipping

Oh, an no, I'm not "fatist" I want to know how you managed to break the toilet seat? Who was it in your family (or guests) who broke the toilet seat?

For EVNYC about tip distribution. You already have a good answer from Kevin, but here's a bit more:

The staff of our building (The Ellington of "Where can you buy this apartment for $3600?" Streeteasy prominence) very kindly slips a Happy Holidays/Happy New Year card under the door. It has the name of every employee and their position. We like to give something to everyone and this lets us do it by name, with a card, and we can give the cards to a doorman who puts them in a location convenient for employees to get them.

"The staff of our building (The Ellington of "Where can you buy this apartment for $3600?" Streeteasy prominence) very kindly slips a Happy Holidays/Happy New Year card under the door. It has the name of every employee and their position. We like to give something to everyone and this lets us do it by name, with a card, and we can give the cards to a doorman who puts them in a location convenient for employees to get them."

Like I said: mob-style shakedown.

Slipping a card like this under your door implies that a gift is expected. It's crass, rude, puts tenants on the spot, and one could even make the case that it's illegal.

ok matt: tell us about what law has been broken by this action.

Panhandling.

NYCMatt- have a feeling that you may get special treatment from your staff because you're the board president,right? They had better not cross YOU by expecting a tip for giving you good service all year.

Do they all tip their hats and go "morning master" when you walk by?

why don't you call the police?

"NYCMatt- have a feeling that you may get special treatment from your staff because you're the board president,right? They had better not cross YOU by expecting a tip for giving you good service all year."

No, they don't give me special treatment. They are not given tips for giving good service all year -- they are paid a salary, and for that salary we the shareholders expect good service. If we're not happy with the level of service we're getting from them (and so far we've been quite happy with the entire staff), we'll find someone else to do the job.

how are you adding value to this discussion columbiacounty?

NYCMatt- and you are absolutely sure that every owner in your building feels this way? Or have you just basically exercised your droit du seigneur, and declared the law in your building?

hey matt's a vp--lets not give him a promotion.

"NYCMatt- and you are absolutely sure that every owner in your building feels this way? Or have you just basically exercised your droit du seigneur, and declared the law in your building?"

We, the board of directors of our building, made the decision years ago to give staff members a modest holiday bonus out of the building's general funds in lieu of each shareholder being put on the spot for having to cough up an acceptable "tip" out of fear of being ignored by the staff the next time their toilet overflows.

"No tips" is now the law of the building. Yes, we made that decision without consulting every shareholder, the same way we as the board make decisions for the good of the building every month without first consulting the rest of the shareholders. That's how boards of directors operate. We will listen to input and feedback from the shareholders, but ultimately it's OUR decision. If you as a shareholder don't like the decision, run for a board seat and make changes yourself. Elections are open to every shareholder.

I've heard of other buildings with a no-tipping policy. What happens, of course, is that those so inclined go ahead and give the staff the usual Xmas cards. What's in the envelopes is their own business.

NWT - but NYCMatt stands in the lobby to make sure nobody breaks his rule and GIVES A STAFF MEMBER A CHRISTMAS TIP!!!

Back to the card under the door at the Ellington: we like it and never felt panhandled or shaken down.
Ours is a rental building. I think condo/coop could reasonably do a Christmas/Holiday bonus for employees out of the general funds.
For a more transient, impersonal rental like ours, I like knowing who is working in the building and in what capacity. I suppose management could provide this along with, say, the fire evacuation instructions,
but the card at holiday time works for me.
In my Florida condo, I get individual cards and a little gift from each of the staff!

Exactly, cliff! The staff should be buying US gifts!

hehe ph41, sounds fun, huh? Imagine the furtiveness, the glance around the lobby to make sure nobody's spying before the ritual envelope and hand-shake. F that.

That's the kind of question I'd ask at a board interview. "Do you have any weird crack-pot over-controlling policies as to what I can do with my own money?"

The board isn't telling the shareholders what they can or cannot do with their money.

The board, however, IS telling the STAFF that they aren't allowed to accept tips.

Last year I paid too much in tips. This year, after experiencing lousy building services, and especially rude and incompetent concierges - I will be tipping in relation to services rendered. One thing I do like about our building's board is that they have been very good at firing people that needs to be fired. The downside has been that our building's external management team keeps hiring bad and worse employees.

hey proper I cant help but wonder if you are talking about the building I work at. We have some like that in our building. Are they hiring more people who dont even speak proper and coherent ENGLISH?

Hey Matt. Are workers allowed to accept gifts? I dont consider all of the envelopes I get at xmas as tips. In fact, I would say most are gifts because I have developed a good repoire over the years with most of the tenants. Most give me because they Want to give me and appreciate all I do for them. To actually ban tipping/gifts is kind of petty just because some dont want to be seen as cheap. If you dont want to give dont give. That is your choice. Its kind of sad that the board is taking money out of the mouths of individuals who are just getting by in this expensive city. That money makes a huge difference in their lives. I can tell you this most of the guys working there have little or no money in the bank. I use the money I get at xmas to fund my roth Ira.

NWT, thanks for the book reference. you might like waiter rant.

Yeah, Waiter Rant is pretty good. It got the spouse to start tipping better.

NYCMatt - this sounds like the Board has taken too much control in your building. What you're essentially saying is that the Board decides who has given good service and that the lowly owners cannot exercise their right to tip staff who have given them good service. This sounds like it would create an environment where the staff are only concerned with pleasing the Board.

"What you're essentially saying is that the Board decides who has given good service and that the lowly owners cannot exercise their right to tip staff who have given them good service."

This is like saying that Giuliani took away our rights to pay the mafia for "protection".

I think its a great idea.

"This sounds like it would create an environment where the staff are only concerned with pleasing the Board."

Not a particularly horrible idea.... especially since the board is elected by all the shareholders.

AR - so, what type of illiquid assets do you have that you can not access for a down-payment?

"To actually ban tipping/gifts is kind of petty just because some dont want to be seen as cheap. "

Wrong. We banned tipping and gifts because some shareholders simply can't afford the expense -- and frankly shouldn't HAVE to, since they pay their share of the building employees every month in their maintenance.

There's no denying that building employees know who DOESN'T tip them, and many do tend to give less prompt service when those tenants who didn't tip need their assistance.

Our "no tipping" policy levels the playing field for everyone.

"We banned tipping and gifts because some shareholders simply can't afford the expense"

Sounds like your building is in bad shape.

And yet you would vote to block an owner who needs to sublet, if the renter only had an income 39x the monthly rent. Weird.

Sounds like your building should have been stricter on who they let in, too many deadbeats is not good. Probably the Board needs to be replaced to turn it around.

I wish more buildings were "no tipping". I went to a few resort vacations where they also had a "NO Tipping" policy. Everything was included in the room charge and there was no need to carry a wad of cash to tip the doorman, car service, food, & whatever. It was great. When I went to Japan, it was like that at the restaurants as well, food was a little more expensive and the restaurants paid the waiters more in the hourly rate.

Matt im just curious as to what kind of building you live in that has staff but the tenants cant afford to tip. Are these the same tenants who buy 1000$ shoes and 10000$ furs? By the way, I totally agree that they shouldnt HAVE to tip. If they want to they should be allowed to. I know if I lived in one of those buildings I would want to take care of the employees that I like and that are there providing security for me 24/7 365 days a year.

Holiday tipping or holiday extortion? The self-entitled asstards feel they are owed additional money because others make more than they do? Get a better job if building personnel want more money! I have never gotten a holiday bonus and certainly not for something that requires the brain cells of a 5th grade education to open doors or sign for packages. The entitlement complex seems well ingrained in just about all industries in NYC now.

What is this? All the people working in co-ops and condos have banded together to post in StreetEasy how "everybody" tips $100 - $300 for everyone in the building? What a crock-of-sh*t.

So far, in 200+ posts, there's been no consensus or banding together. Everybody seems to do what's OK by them, which is just fine. Building staff all seem able to cope with a range of Xmas gifts, starting at none. If they can't, they probably have other job issues and won't last long.

I like the idea of taking a month's maintenance or CCs and divvying it up among however many people. But that's just me.

"I like the idea of taking a month's maintenance or CCs and divvying it up among however many people. But that's just me."

Bingo.

Oh wait, it was my idea. ;-)

Yeah, I think there should just be some guidelines. Its a percentage of rent (and, if you're stabilized and getting equal treatment) and add another 5-10% for doormen. I already gave my numbers guess for %, what do other folks think?

"I know if I lived in one of those buildings I would want to take care of the employees that I like and that are there providing security for me 24/7 365 days a year."

You are.

It's called your monthly maintenance.

Look, if you think your building employees are so underpaid that they rely on handouts just to make ends meet, no one is stopping you from going to the board and demanding they all get raises. The board will then raise everyone's monthly maintenance. Of course that shouldn't bother you, since you're so concerned with raising their standing of living ...

no, somewhere else - you want to give ONLY 10-15% OF YOUR MONTHLY RENT!!!NOT ONE MONTH'S RENT. VERY DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

NYCMatt - as we enter the "holiday season" as term which is probably anathema to you, somewhow I have feeling you identify with Scrooge in The Christmas Carol - at least until the end, when he reforms and tastes the joy.

"We banned tipping and gifts because some shareholders simply can't afford the expense" Im not sure what kind of building you live in but I highly doubt thats the reason. If you are barely scraping by and live in a staffed building then you probably shoudlnt be living in one. I dont make much but I would be able to give 1000$ for a staff of 20. I dont think all building employees are underpaid either. I never said that. In fact I believe some are overpaid but that goes on a person to person basis. I do think the ones who do a great job should be paid better than the ones who dont even speak proper english or provide good service. Hey East I think I was the only building worker to actually post in here and I said I make between 0 and 300 and thats for an upper class coop. You said "I have never gotten a holiday bonus and certainly not for something that requires the brain cells of a 5th grade education to open doors or sign for packages" Why do you have such disdain for us?

"Im not sure what kind of building you live in but I highly doubt thats the reason. If you are barely scraping by and live in a staffed building then you probably shoudlnt be living in one."

We have a number of retired people in the building (who paid off their mortgages years ago) and who are living on fixed incomes. We also have several people who are unemployed, and in this market, find it nearly impossible to sell even if they wanted to.

Did you know there's a recession going on?

So would you let the unemployed people rent ? And what hoops would you make them jump through? Many buildings that in the past restricted renting now will allow it, understanding that the current market is not the optimal time to sell.

But, from what you have posted here, you would prefer an unemployed owner to a well-qualified renter (sub-tenant, whatever you call it). So, just drive your unemplyed owner into default. Great outcome.

"We, the board of directors of our building, made the decision years ago to give staff members a modest holiday bonus out of the building's general funds in lieu of each shareholder being put on the spot for having to cough up an acceptable "tip" out of fear of being ignored by the staff the next time their toilet overflows." It says here that you made the decision to go away with tips "YEARS" ago so how does the recession have anything to do with the changes you made. In fact, I believe our Country was in great shape financially many years ago.

"So would you let the unemployed people rent ?"

No. They're owners. They were employed when they purchased.

In this market, it's unlikely they would be able to rent their apartments for anywhere near what their mortgage and maintenance are, anyway.

" It says here that you made the decision to go away with tips "YEARS" ago so how does the recession have anything to do with the changes you made. In fact, I believe our Country was in great shape financially many years ago."

"Years" meaning TWO years -- when the main concerns were retirees and people who simply didn't want to pay extra for service they're already paying for in their monthly maintenance.

Hey - they might need to rent even if it is not what their mortgage and maintenance is - if it lets them hold on to the property until they can sell - so it would be better if they go into default? Are you serious - or just stupid?

Actually, you are just really scary - someone who has let power go to his head. Sort of like the president of Zimbabwe - and we know what has happened to that country - ruined.

Oh I forgot - all his cronies are doing really, really well.

And do you approve all the contracts for the building? Dare we ask how many kickbacks you get?

Oh, that's right - the buildig painter just painted your apartment for $200. But, that's not a kickback, right?

"Hey - they might need to rent even if it is not what their mortgage and maintenance is - if it lets them hold on to the property until they can sell - so it would be better if they go into default? Are you serious - or just stupid?"

And where are they supposed to live in the meantime? They're going to have to pay rent somewhere else.

Are YOU stupid?

They will do what they have to do - relatives - lower cost rental, whatever it takes so they do not lose their investment. Maybe they can move in with relatives. Can't you understand that? No, I forgot, you are the little tin-horn dictator of your (unfortunate) co-op.

Please - can you at least let everybody here know which building you rule over ? So that anybody, otherwise well-qualified, will be warned in advance to avoid?

Um, even with a lower-cost rental, in most cases it would still be more expensive than just sitting tight in their own co-op, especially after they've paid MOVING costs.

I just had this discussion with a friend who's in the same situation.

Honestly, are you really not getting this?

Oh come on NYCMatt - give it up - let us know

Kevin: As I mentioned before, we like to give at least something to everyone employed in our rental building, but not the same amount to everyone. Do you and the workers in your building discuss how much you received and from whom or who didn't tip at all?

Our lawyer is a long time co-op owner in what looks like a medium size building. He says he gives $100 to everyone who works in the building. Do you think it's fair and reasonable to give every employee the same amount?

This all seems eerily similar to "paying a toll" on roads and bridges back in the day. I'm not going to give more money to strangers who have a full time job that I already pay with my monthlies more money than I would my friends and family. Especially, while I've had my pay reduced 12%.

Not going to be bullied to giving my money away this year.

what am i missing? who is bullying you and how? if you receive a list of people who work in your building and some choose to give them cash, how are you bullied? not seeing the "or else" component here. on the other hand, matt seems to be bullying the staff in his building by telling them that they cannot accept gifts. (which, by the way, i suspect matt has made up as he is prone to do.)

cc- the scary part is that I think Matt HAS told them they can't accept gifts

"what am i missing? who is bullying you and how? "

The staff is doing the bullying.

Much like the mob, when a small business refuses to pay it's monthly "association protection dues", and then finds its storefront mysteriously torched in the middle of the night.

Building staff is not quite as aggressive, but they DO know who doesn't tip them, and many tend not to go that extra mile for those who don't. Many others even give LESS service to non-tippers.

By enforcing a no-tipping policy, our building has eliminated ALL that bullshit. Everyone is equal. And if the building staff feels that their salaries aren't enough, they can either pick up a second job, or find a new job altogether - you know, the way it works for the rest of the world.

The calculation I use is 20% of rent or common charges/ # of staff members, which seems to work out.

Hey Cliff thats very gracious of you to give to each and everyone. I agree with giving different amounts. I would give more to the ones you have more of an interaction with and who provide you with the best service. Unfortunately, there is some discussing of who gives and who doesnt. Some employees do discuss what they get from a tenant. If i had to guess I would say about 11 of the 27 do discuss with each other if asked. It is fair and reasonable to give everyone the same amount although it rarely happens. The doormen and concierges definitely make more money than the back elevator operators,porters and overnight workers.

Hey Matt I do agree that some workers do treat tenants diferently based on tips. I personally think it is disgusting. Do you really think everyone is equal now? Im pretty sure that the board is treated much better than the regualr tenants. Im also sure that the workers know which people are responsible for the new rules that were made. You would be surprised at things we know. I would hate to live in a building where the people working for me despise me.

"no, somewhere else - you want to give ONLY 10-15% OF YOUR MONTHLY RENT!!!NOT ONE MONTH'S RENT. VERY DIFFERENT NUMBERS."

Might I suggest some ritalin?

" I would hate to live in a building where the people working for me despise me."

If we "despised" you, we wouldn't employ you.

If they don't like the pay, they don't have to take the job. Plain and simple.

One co-op has supposedly banned ALL tipping this year citing concerns of favoritism and economic hardship (on the residents, not the staff). Curious whether anyone has heard of this before....?

http://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2009/11/co_op_bans_holiday_tipping

make the situation worse as some will still tip. while the not best i agree a pool would be a good option. Those that can give more will and those that can't will give what they can. this way the staff is not screwed out of tips and there can be no favoritism due to tips.

Hey Matt Im pretty confidant there is not one person in my building who despises me. Im pretty sure you have a bunch of workers who look at you in disgust when you walk by them. I could be wrong but based on some of the peoples comments about you I think it might be true. Hey somewhereelse who is complaining about the pay??? I didnt see one comment about anyone not being happy with their pay. Hey RE2009. The problem with a pool is that some workers who are terrible would get the same as people who do a great job. But like you said it would be better than not getting anything.

Wow. That's a lot of money is see flying over the table here.
It actually demotivates me to tip all.
How will my USD 100/5 people = USD 20 pp stand out against all these high rollers.
It's for a doorman close to tipping nothing.
For the services I use, tipping more money feels excessive. We have an automatic door and I do most of my small fixes in the house. Actually now that I think of it I do the handyman work in the house myself because I feel like the tip would be a waste of money for most small things. And if they come they will expect a tip.
So concluding I like NYCmatt's policy. Rent is expensive as it is.

Also I pay taxes on all my income. Is all this tip, tax free income?
Everybody should pay tax over their income. So I assume doorman have to declare this income right?

aboutready
about 6 weeks ago
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hsf, are you fatist? we don't have any overweight people in our household but maybe that's what you're trying to imply? if so that's just nasty. and you're a true fucktard if you think that.

after 5 years the hinges on our toilet broke. i find this incredibly fascinating. that some people care SOOO much about my toilet seat, which was, of course, actually my ll's toilet seat.

get a life people. if you want a new toilet seat that you buy at HD, good on you. if you want your landlord to do so, who has the obligation to provide you with a new one, good on you.

"get a life people. if you want a new toilet seat that you buy at HD, good on you. if you want your landlord to do so, who has the obligation to provide you with a new one, good on you."

Um, get a life yourself.

If you can't afford a $10 toilet seat (yes, that's what the "good" ones cost at Bed, Bath, and Beyond, believe it or not), you shouldn't be renting an apartment at all.

I've come close to deciding to renew my lease but i already gave out the holiday tips which were much lower than if I would have renewed...should I go back and add additional money or just let it go.

julia, you're fine....it's the thought that counts not how much you give. Everyone should give what they can afford, but it is nice to be thoughtful and give something.
Happy Holidays!