Tribeca Space

Be very careful with your ability to rescind the contract and get back your deposit - sometimes there's only a window of opportunity (it's not open-ended), and when the window closes, you're SOL and back to square one.

Can anyone confirm Comment #95? Are Kest and Brawders really giving us their commissions? Is Thurcon really giving us washers/dryers and vouchers for California Closets?

RE Post 95--

As much as we all want this to be true, I'm sure we all know that this is a pipe dream...
Do we really think that Corcoran worked for the past year for free, despite all the troubles??

I would really like the washer/dryer though...

Post #106 - It may not be a pipe dream - Kest and Brawders are part of Corcoran - and I'm sure Corcoran doesn't want its reputation trashed over the fiasco that Kest and Brawders created. It won't surprise me if Corcoran forces those guys to forfeit their commissions and hand them over to the purchasers. The purchasers are out of pocket a ton of money thanks to misrepresentations by Kest and Brawders.

#101 -- I bought in 200 Chambers. Yes, a bit high rise cheesy, but it has really turned out well. As a previous "classic loft" owner (also in Tribeca) it was a bit of a stretch, but is beautiful great views, and nice finishes.

Good luck!

Generally misrepresentations come from the top down. I don't know anything about this Kest guy, but I have heard good things about Brawder in the past. It seems like better PR for Corcoran or the developoer to recompense the owners rather than scapegoat the brokers. That would be a PR disaster for them, they have already lost a number of good brokers and if they did such a thing they would lose far more. Unless the brokers unilaterally decided to misrepresent aainst what the company and developer was telling them (unlikely) they appear to simply be the liaison, or the "face" that gets all the blame.

At least some of the blame has to rest on the shoulders of Kest and Brawders since they willingly got into bed with Thurcon the developer. They should not have done so without carefully screening Thurcon - unless all they were inerested in was making a quick buck.

Sure, but from my perspective that blame should be directed at Corcoran as a whole.They are ultimately the ones who got into bed with Thurcon, because it is their decision and their judgement to make.And by the same token it is their name and ultimately on their shoulders as a company that culpability lies.

I guess it depends on who brought in Thurcon as a client - Brawders/Kest or Corcoran as a whole. If Brawders/Kest, I'd hate to see them get commissions AND credit for bringing in a client such as Thurcon. In any event, I agree with you that the purchasers should get compensated for all of the fraud, lies, misrepresentations, etc.

Well again, even if Brawders/Kest brought them in, ultimately it is the company's call and responsibility. If they are admitting culpapibility by penalizing their brokers then they are admitting culpability as a company. And as a company THEY are the ones who ought to offer to take the hit. This is assuming that (legally) there actually is any culpability at all. Corcoran is pretty good at dotting their eyes and crossing their t's so as to protect themselves...

I meant dotting their "I's"...God I need more coffee...

Has anyone who has bought into Tribeca Space talked to Corcoran about compensation?

Or the developer?

The developer and brokers have broken no laws here with regard to pushing back the move in date time after time. Yea, they're a#*ho*es but welcome to the wondderful world of new conversion developments.

Once you have finally moved in and just when you think you've finally settled down you and everyone who bought in Tribeca Space will find a bunch of new problems with the Condo. Rental people vs owners. Washer/dryer hookups, Management companies, etc. Right, more headache.

BUT in the end, everyone who bought in Tribeca Space will love their new home. If you were to take your deposit back now the Sponsor will just sell your unit to someone else for more money. It's safe to say those of you who bought early on have already made money.

Keep hanging in there and good luck. Speaking from experience.

Everyone should stop their whining and just keep waiting - there's NOTHING you can do short of backing out. This is the risk of new construction/conversions. If you didn't know that going in, then sorry, but welcome to the world of NY real estate. If you want to play it safe next time, it's very simple - don't buy new construction.

#118 - The difference between Tribeca Space and most new construction is that Tribeca Space was finished being constructed LAST YEAR. When most of us signed our purchase contracts, we did so after seeing FINISHED APARTMENTS - and after being told by Corcoran that we'd be able to close as early as LAST OCTOBER!

wfef

#91: When these developers accept offers and downpayments it's really an interest free loan...they stall until people pull out and then return the deposits....subsequently jacking up the price due to appreciation.....simple....it's a scam!!! Contracts need to stipulate compensation for the buyers......at least give the buyers the difference between the initial agreed upon price and the new appreciated value.....or something else that makes sense. In the end it's essentially an interest free loan for developers and on top of that they stall and reap the benefits of the appreciated value once you cave and pull out of the deal.....this should be made illegal!

I would certainly categorize what Corcoran and Thurcon are doing with regards to Tribeca Space as a scam. Jim Brawders and David Kest should be hauled into court over this.

Couldn't agree with you more about Kest and Brawders - can't even count how many times they've lied to me about when I'd be able to move into TS... Can't they be sued for fraud and deceptive advertising?

#119, the point is you bought from a sponsor, not a previous owner. It's the same thing as new construction - buyer beware.

#124 - The real point is that the condos were advertised by Jim Brawders and David Kest of Corcoran as having occupancy in early 2007. Unfair and deceptive advertising on the part of Brawders/Kest/Corcoran? I think so...

I agree. Do something please.

#127 - What do you agree with? What do you want done?

The developer and Corcoran shouldn't be allowed to get away with this deception. People buy a new development almost complete and expect to be able to move in within one year. Our year has come and gone. We want action to be taken.

Action is being taken...

Does anyone have an update on the status of the Temp. Cert. of Occupancy?

We were told that closings would begin end of August. What date is being given lately??

Latest word from Corcoran is that closings will begin "sometime in the Fall." Don't hold your breath...

Corcoran originally promised closings in "Fall 2006." What Fall are they taking about???? 2007? 2008? I've had it with Corcoran's shenanigans. How would David Kest and Jim Brawders feel if they were being jerked around like they're jerking us around? I don't even know where to enroll my kid in school! Does anyone know if I can get out of my contract to buy into Tribeca Space?

#133 - Yes - you can get out out of your contract. By the way, latest word is that Tribeca Space has 18 ongoing violations with the DOB and 12 ongoing violations with the ECB - so despite what David Kest and Jim Brawders are telling you, no temporary certificate of occupancy will be issued anytime soon. I'm hoping for a January closing right now...

To #134, you really need to learn how to click and read thoroughly before getting everyone hysterical with misleading information. The 18 and 12 violations are mostly from the 1980 and early 1990s for things that don't exist anymore in the 4 buildings, like restaurants, basement kitchen, store equipment, elevators that were recently replaced, etc. Check it out for yourselves: http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?bin=1001453&requestid=2

To #135 - It doesn't matter when the violations are from - they're still outstanding and haven't been dismissed! They'll still hold up the Temporary C of O!

Once the dust have settled and people start moving in to Tribeca Space,... do people think this place is worth it??? Especially if condo owners are sharing with renters? I looked into one of the available units and felt I liked it. Any thoughts if this place will be good in the long run - 5 years from now? That's if people have moved in and C of O comes in? I'm just hesitant about the renters. I don't mind the cheap finishes.

Yeah, I think it will be. You can’t beat the price per sq ft and maintenance, especially compared to financial and tribeca areas, and you’ll have enough money to make it your own and fix anything you did not like. Regarding renters, well in a condo you can’t control how many of your neighbors will put their apartments up for rent and for how long or whether they only want to flip them, which seem to be chronic problems at 200 chamb. At least here you’ll know that around 9 units will be rentals using a separate elevator but that they will help lower your maintenance fee. If you are truly concerned about renters I suggest you look into co-ops. Most have very strict rules about renting.

NOTE #1: The sponsor is currently in the process of filing an amendment to the Offering Plan that will SUBSTANTIALLY increase the monthly maintenance charges (word has it by at least 25%).

NOTE #2: There are 18 renatl units - not 9.

Hi Lonny,

- There are properties in Tribeca with a better Price per sq ft, 11 Worth st and 158 Chambers St and in Financial District.
- Doesnt that defeat the purpose of buying in a new development? One buying new shouldn't feel the need to change it, although many will likely gut them.
- Condo owners in Tribeca dont tend to rent their units out (you hit the nail on the head with 200... but don't forget when they first hit the market they were dirt cheap and increased its prices, what 30 times since the original offering plan? I lost count. 200 Chambers St is an exception.)
Generally renters aren't bad unless Management is accepting shares and unqualified applicants. But how will they lower your maintainance fees?
- Yes, Co-ops generally have stricter sublet rules. :)
- Any word on a potential closing date?

Re: 200 Chambers -- the % of rentals is actually pretty small when you look at the whole building -- less than 15%. The situation is similar to 15 Broad -- both are exceptionally large developments for downtown (200+ apartments) so you are bound to get some renters / flippers. It is a new phenom for downtown, but so are big-box condos. My guess is that smaller buildings are less apt to incur this - even as a % of buyers.

Overall though, the "renters" in 25 Murray (I assume), 15 Broad, etc. are going to be paying top $$ to cover the underlying mortgage so I wouldnt expect alot of frat parties. Just alot of tired Goldman bankers getting home from work a midnight so they can cover their $6K a month rent!

Much much more than 15%!!

Projected closings at Tribeca Space now pushed back to late October - more than a full year after the building was completed - can't even believe that date though since building still can't get a temporary cert of occupancy and Corcoran can't be believed.

what a piece of shit!!! i feel terrible for the people have purchased here

To make matters worse, the two Corcoran agents that sold us the condo in Tribeca Space (Jim Brawders and David Kest) have abandoned the project and gone onto market another building named 45 John - leaving everybody in a lurch. Oh, and projected closings are now in November... (not that I blieve that)

Supposedly the owner / developer does not have a mortgage on the building (owns it outright) so there is no pressure to finish or make any closings to meet loan obligations. Anyone who stays in may be waiting for a long time . . .

Ongoing problems with Tribeca Space (i.e., inability to obtain a temporary certificte of occupancy) has forced the developer to offer everyone who has signed a purchase contract for a unit in the building THE RIGHT TO RESCIND YOUR CONTRACT.

This only occured after the 25 Murray Street Purchasers' Rights Coalition (a group of disgruntled Tribeca Space purchasers) engaged an attorney to represent them before the New York State Attorney General - who then forced the developer to offer the right of rescission.

THE RECISSION RIGHT IS ONLY GOOD THROUGH SEPTEMBER 21.

Word has it that quite a few people are rescinding since more than a year has passed since closings were scheduled to begin and there's no end in sight for when closings will actually occur.

does anyone know why the developer can't get the TCO?

m

BUYERS--ARE YOU EXERCISING YOUR RIGHT TO RESCIND??????? this is all so crazy.

I've heard that about a third of the purchasers have rescinded so far. My latest big worry is that, if I ever move in, I will basically be moving into a rental building since the developer will no doubt rent out all of the units that have rescinded - let's face facts - because of all the bad press about the building and the developer's problems related to the temporary certificate of occupancy, at this point no one would be foolish enough to buy a unit in the building until a FINAL Certifiocate of Occupancy is obtained - and, based upon how the developer's done in obtaining a temporary certificiate of occupancy, that will most likely be a few years down the road.

25Murray - why dont you rescind?

I probably will - I feel like I'm on a sinking ship...

Sorry to give all of you something else to worry about, but if the developer doesn't sell a certain number of units in the building, the condo board will never be formed and you will all continue to be at the mercy of the developer even after your closings - purcasers will have no say in how building is run and developer will be making all building rules, deciding on monthly charges, etc. Something to think about...

If all this is true how come the below blog doesn't mention any of this?

http://tribecaspace25murray.blogspot.com/

Because it hasn't been updated since July...

...or because it's not true,...

What do you think isn't true?

I have purchased a condo in 25Murray. These are the facts as I understand them to date.
1) TCO has been approved
2) 13th Amendment has been approved by Attorney General. Budget increased and our costs increased 20%. Taxes have also increased (doubled).
3) Per my conversation with Corcoran yesterday 5-6 people have rescinded.
4) Closing dates are expected to be mid-late October.
5) Outstanding items: Separate Tax Lot = 2 week effort, Post Office verification = 1 day effort
6) We have the right to rescind until 9/21.

I've also purchased a condo in 25 Murray. With respect to what par37 has said:

(1) The TCO has not yet been issued per Department of Buildings. I'm told that there are lots of outstanding building violations that have to be cleared up first. Not sure how serious they are or how long will take.
(2) I agree with what was said about 13th Amendment, costs and taxes.
(3) Personally, I don't belive anything that Corcoran says anymore - including the number of people that have rescinded - I'm sure they're in crisis control to limit the number of rescissions and will say anything to get us not to rescind. I suspect the number is much higher than 5 - 6.
(4) My broker told me today to expect November - December closing.
(5) I agree that the tax lots have to be separated but was told that it takes at least one month. Don't know anything about post office verification.
(6) I agree that there's a right to rescind - good until 9/21

Hope this helps.

I'm a buyer as well. Although I can't verify the specific time frames for things getting done since I have not gotten a recent update and wouldn't trust it if I had, but the other info in the last ttwo points is what I have been told.

Anyone know why the taxes doubled from the original numbers?

I assumed the increase in taxes was due to the est. being about 2 years old. Same as the budget. Have not verified this though.

Still a mess,... at this point one should think about re-sell values if they're not going to rescind now.

I think re-sale opportunities will be limited until a final certificate of occupancy is obtained (and I agree with 25 Murray that it will probably be some years before that happens). Also, if a large number of the condos end up being rentals because they can't be sold, the values of the condos will sink.

The sponsor has agreed to cover the transfer taxes and its attorney fee if I don't rescind! Very happy!

How many purchasers have rescinded at this point?

I rescinded on Mon. I suspect between 10-15 parties have?

I chose not to rescind because, like REGuy, the sponsor agreed to pay my transfer taxes and attorney fees. But I heard that about 30 apartments rescinded total.

Hmmm, I did rescind, but there was no mention of the sponsor paying my transfer taxes or attorney fees. Perhaps, he is only offering to pay fees on apts he is worried about re-selling.

who ever didnt rescind will be in for a big big headache this Christmas.

I've been following this deadbeat development for over a year and walk by it almost every day. I can't believe that anyone DIDN'T rescind - the building is butt ugly, it's a mixed use project (condos, rentals and cheap retail on ground floor), the bathrooms and kitchens are 80's rental quality, no washing/drying machines, and there's obviously something seriously wrong with it since it can't get a cert of occupancy.

Hey NotAnonymous - what is going to cause the purchasers a "big big headache this Christmas"? Don't they already have one?

Just an FYI - looks like the apt I rescinded on is back on the market for about $65K more than what I was going to pay - optimisim on the part of the developer, for sure.

Wow. It takes some balls to increase prices as there is such a bad vibe about that building . . . the first time I walked in I knew it was shady. I feel bad for anyone who is suckered into a purchase there . . . we looked back in December, when closings were "going to be in March" and if we would have took the bait, we would have been homeless, with a baby for 8 months!

Totally deceptive and to be avoided like the plague. If these issues exist now, I can only imagine how management will treat residence after they have closed and have moved in.

I am soooo upset that I didn't rescind. Word now is that in addition to the inability to get a cert of occupancy, there are serious tax problems with the building (due to it being a jumbled mess of rentals, retail and condos with no clear diliniation among them). it's likely closings won't begin until next year. Then, i'll be stuck with the developer as my managing agent for three years. I really screwed up.

Just heard that the tax problems are really serious and not to expect closing until "sometime in 2008." Can't confirm what 25Murray said about bedrooms being reclassified as non-bedrooms due to the wierd "windows" in some units that can't be seen or opened - luckily my bedrooms have real windows. If true, the as-built plans will have to be revised and re=approved by city - could take a while. Could also mean that purchasers of the affected units will be given another right to rescind since what they were sold by David Kest and Jim Brawders (the guys at Corcoran Marketing that are handling the sales at Tribeca Space) were "bedrooms."

I'm not surprised about the "window" issue blowing up - did people really think that a room could be called a "bedroom" when the window isn't visible or operational? What a joke! If I had bought such an apartment, I'd DEMAND my money back.

25 Murray or RE Guy- where are you getting your latest "update" (we all use that term loosely now...) on impending closing dates? The Corcoran broker/sales center or the sponsor's attorney? I don't know where to get the real story any more.

Robert Durst should check out Tribeca Space - I'm sure that Harold Thurman (the developer), Jim Brawders and David Kest (the Corcoran agents who are selling Tribeca Space) would welcome his money with open arms.

I was in 25 Murray Street today and the super told me the gas is getting turned on next week. I guess that is encouraging

Gas or no gas, I understand that there's no certificate of occupancy coming anytime soon and that closings are now projected for Spring 2008. Not that I would believe that projection... I suspect that this development will sit empty for years.

what did the sponsors of Tribeca Space offer to keep people from pulling out of the deal?

To blueeyes - the sponsor offered to pay the transfer taxes and attorney fees if we didn't pull out. Even with all of that, I'm now sorry that I dodn't pull out. No end in sight.

For a story on the wait for 25 Murray Street, the Tribeca Trib would like to interview buyers and prospective buyers. If preferred, your name will not be used. Please contact editor Carl Glassman at carlg@tribecatrib.com.

Thank God the press has finally caught on to the Tribeca Space nightmare. Be sure to mention all the lies told by Jim Brawders and David Kest - the Corcoran agents that are marketing the building. Be sure to mention that the developer was previosuly convicted of fraud by the new York Attorney General. I can't wait til he's convicted again over Tribeca Space.

To "25 Murray" and others interested in commenting on this situation. The Tribeca Trib has yet to hear from buyers. Again, please e-mail carlg@tribecatrib.com. Thank you.

TO TRIBECA TRIBUNE REPORTER: I suspect that no one has contacted you because we're afraid of the developer - I hear he's a very sketchy character. Also, the developer will be the managing agent of our building if we ever get to move in - so we fear reprisals if we bad-mouth the building or cause problems. What an awful bind we're in...

TO 25MURRAY: Thank you very much for your response. I wonder if people understand that they can speak about Tribeca Space without being identified. In any case, the Tribeca Trib remains interested in speaking to buyers. Carl Glassman, editor. carlg@tribecatrib.com

if anyone is interested in selling their spot for a confirmed studio or 1br...shoot me an email...

I think it's fascinating that some of the purchasers at Tribeca Space are actually afraid of the developer and fearful of reprisals if they say anything negative about the building that could be traced back to them. Is the developer Mafia-related? Is the building being used as a front for money laundering or some sort of other illegal activity? Maybe that would explain why the developer seems to be in no rush to get a certificate of occupancy.

Didn't it occur to anyone that they may not have contacted carl because there is not story? these are postings done by only a loud few telling a bunch of lies about something they know nothing of. everyone that did not rescind their apartment that i have spoken to is very happy and can't wait to move in. it has been entertaining to read all the lies posted by people that have no buy or financial interest in the building. we are thrilled that the trouble makers rescinded and only wish they found something better to do that to keep giving their unwanted opinion.

If you are upset about the posts above, why don't you provide some new information that counters the above claims? What is incorrect about the information posted? Seems to me the best way to set the record straight is to get updated and accurate information from someone that is happy to be moving in.

Holy cow . . . what a load!

How can you defend this building against the real issues at hand -- namely that the building has been in limbo for over a year, and that purchasers were sold a bill of goods.

What kind of lies are actually being told. Everything here is verifyable -- namely:
1) Developer is not local an has had infractions upstate
2) The building does not have a TCO and closing dates have been postponed for almost a year
3) There are serious code violations that remain to be cleared up
4) The brokers misrepresented the building and have subsequently left
5) Fearing legal trouble, the building offer the ability to rescind -- which is almost UNHEARD of in NYC. Many people took them up on it.
6) The building is just weird. Cheap build-outs, strange floorplans and illegal "bedrooms"
7) No one has been able to move in.

Putting money down on the building and being screwed for 14 months doesnt make someone a trouble maker . . . I can only thank this board for supporting some of my thoughts about the place a year ago. Otherwise, myself, my wife and our newborn would literally have been on the street right now!

Another year coming to an end - another year that Tribeca Space sits empty with its "new" appliances becoming several models outdated... Happy New Year Jim Brawders (of Corcoran Marketing)! Happy New Year David Kest (of Corcoran Marketing)! Happy New Year Chuck Weiss (the Sponsors lawyer)! Happy New Year Harold Thurman (the Sponsor)! Happy New Year Brad Thurman (the other Sponsor)! You all screwed over a lot of people in 2007 and I wish you nothing but the worst in 2008.

Anybody know what is happening? Any update? I did not go forward, but I pass the building alomst daily (my dog goes to the PawStop).

I am hearing that clsoings are to happen in February.

with outstanding violations and no TCO?

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I've been told that closings are going to happen "next month" since Fall 2006. That's right - 2006 (not 2007).

I was told by the sales Office that closings look like they are going tohappen next month. There are hearings scheduled next month if you check the Dept of Bldgs web site. It looks as though they are to clear up the remailing violations. Also, I am aware that a very high profile person has purchased 4 apartments in the building and has brought her family to bear on the developer. This person's family happens to be 1 of the largest high profile developers in the city. I am cautiously optimistic. Having said all of that who knows?

I've heard substantially the same thing. MDG01, where on the DOB website do you see the scheduled hearing? Poking around I don't see it.

Here is the link
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/certificates/status.shtml
Enter the bldg address and then look into the violations. There are hearing dates listed on some of the violations.
I am not an architect so most of the stuff on this site I don't fully understand.

Again, I've heard it all before... Also, if the same "high profile developer" hasn't been able to push along the developer for the past 16 months, why will she suddenly be able to do so now? MDGO1 sounds like Corcoran Marketing to me!! They must be trying to sell some more units in Tribeca Space to folks that just fell off the turnip truck!!

YOU are wrong on one account. I don't work for Corcoran. I actually work for a real estate firm that represented a buyer in the building. The person happens to be a close personal friend of mine of 15 years as well. So on a completely personal level I want to see him move in. I have personally gone by the building every week on his account, spoken to building employees and contionued to hound all parties at Corcoran to figure out why this buildiong can't be occupied.

I find it very troubling that Corcoran has divulged the names of Tribeca Space purchasers to MDG01 (and who knows to who else) - isn't that illegal and/or unethical?

Once again. You are wrong. My information comes from sources other then Corcoran. I am on the site seeking information just as everyone else is. I have not had conversations or any other form of contact stating who is buying or selling apartments in the building from Corcoran or the developer. It would be nice if you stuck to facts instead of assuming evryone on this site has an alterior motive. Going back to my original post. I only care that my friend and client gets into the aprtment he purchased. The guy was in my wedding party.
My only motivation for being on this site is to see him move in. I hope you can apprecite and take that at face value.