Prewar Condos- Neighborhoods, Disadvantages

Disadvantages: Sometimes windows are old; heating is by radiator and you can't control it..many times it is not enough to heat the entire apartment; need to put window AC units in which cuts down on your windows and aren't as efficient; many times the electrical is not updated and can't put new appliances in without an adaptor or there aren't enough electrical outlets; hard to hang pictures because walls are plaster; rooms can be smaller (not always true though)

Advantages: walls are plaster so you don't hear your neighbors as much (this is a HUGE advantage); more charm; you don't have a cookie cutter apartment...yours probably wont' be exactly like your neighbors; usually has some sort of molding already up

22 listings UES vs. 116 on the UWS but I'm sure you knew that already. I would imagine primary disadvantage would be cost followed by less controls over occupancy. When I was looking at condos I was concerned about the possibility of living next door to, or below, someone who was using it for occasional short term rental.

sorry I went down the tired old condo coop path. What babsie02 said...

how about the century on CPW

Do lofts count as prewar buildings? If so, then the greatest concentration of "prewar" condos would be downtown. As far as other advantages go, older condo conversions can have lower taxes than unabated newer condos.

I remember when looking for an apartment for a friend who wanted a pre-war condo on UWS that a broker told me that there are very few between 65th and 79th (though this was a year ago) - so choice is limited, as it is in this category on the UES.

Looked at an apartment at the Century - A/C up in window, they would take it out in the winter.
Also, if it is important to you to have WD in apartment, more limitations.

"Advantages: walls are plaster so you don't hear your neighbors as much (this is a HUGE advantage); more charm; "

Absolutely, over lousy newer construction. Thats the good thing, even the lousy construction back then was solid.

That being said, quality new stuff also has same properties. I have thick concrete floors and who knows what in the walls, I don't hear a peep. What good is all the quiet in a prewar if your radiator hisses all the time?

where do you live that's new and quiet? i've yet to find that combo.

one of the new (last few years) higher end rental buildings.

"As far as other advantages go, older condo conversions can have lower taxes than unabated newer condos."
And you know, the funny thing is, I am starting to see tax abated new condos as a disadvantage for my purchase. As I dig into the units I look at, I am realizing by year 5 the combined amount of maint and taxes is putting these properties at well above what will be average psf for maint and taxes. Attempting to get some premium out of me for a very temporary lower than average that will actually hurt me when I will prob look to sell five to ten years down the line.
Give me the unabated amount today and let me pay less for the unit is my new view.
I can afford "normal" monthlies and would much prefer being able to sell my apt with normal inflationary hikes in the monthlies down the road.

Spinnaker, which buildings did you find 22 listings on the UES and 116 listings on the UWS? The only two buildings that I know of which are prewar condos on the UES are 65 East 96th Street and 55 East 86th Street. How did you search the listings? Thanks again to everyone for their helpful responses.

Lobster

In advanced search check of the box that says "prewar" and in the drop down box "type" click off "condos"

Thank you. I really feel stupid now.

No don't streeteasy is not very new user friendly but once you kno where and what to click it is a great asset.

BTW, came up 41 listings between 400K and 2.5 mil. Don't know your $ parameters

We found 41 listings for between $400,000 and $2,500,000 in pre-war buildings
Median price: $1,375,000 Median size: 1,000 ft² Median price per ft²: $1,270

I don't know about the UES, but a UWS prewar condo search will return some that aren't prewar. E.g., 15 CPW. Apparently it's as-reported by whomever's feeding SE.

They could be pregulfwar. :)

NWT, excellent point. My new and improved SE search (thanks to truthskr 10's help) indicated that 201 East 80th Street (Richmond Condomium) as a prewar and technically having been built in 1937 and converted to a condomium in 1996, it is a prewar condo. However, having seen several apartments in that building, it doesn't have the feel of a prewar building.

"And you know, the funny thing is, I am starting to see tax abated new condos as a disadvantage for my purchase"

Agreed. Some pretty insanely high numbers for some buildings when you take away the abatements. Its a double whammy for buyers who try to resell... not only do the payments go up, you may not have really thought about the real number, and how hard its going to make it to sell.

btw, in a more general sense.... we use "prewar" to generally mean the well built larger buildings.

There are plenty of prewar buildings that don't fit the normal attributes. Think of all those 100 year old essentially tenement buildings, many on the ues. the walkups. Many look cute, painted nice, all that. But the floors are not super solid. Generally no worries of noise from next building, but if you share a floor... or you aren't on top. I don't think the floors are anything more than wood slats. I've been in a lot of these over the years, and lots of sound can come through the floors (which imho is the worst kind)

Prewars are generally not bright and sunny because you're often stuck with small window sizes. That to me is a far greater disadvantage than having to have a window air conditioner.

As far as prewar condos specifically, I think you have to go building-by-building. In the Vendome, where we own, I'd say the disadvantage is that the complex is so big -- 600 units -- that at its worst you get that impersonal feel of a condo building (i.e., your neighbors are renters who turn over every year) with the constant paperwork hassles of a long-estabilshed co-op (why, you'd like to get a rug delivered? did you clear that with the office?)

It's an unequaled building though, especially when you look at what new condo owners have to go through. I hear the Sheffield next door still doesn't have their gym.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

"I really feel stupid now."

Don't feel that way; you're a lobster. I'm just impressed you can type with claws. And you're delicious!!!!

I think that I'm going to finish looking at prewar condos on the UES before I inevitably move onto other neighborhoods only because I'm most familiar with the UES having lived there for many years. Has anyone ever seen/heard about these buildings: 205 East 85th Street and 237 East 88th Street. Thanks again.

Hey Ali,

I heard the Vendome is haunted. Do you think it's true? It's such a beautiful bld.

Yes, that is my biggest concern about buying a condo- that it won't be so different from living in a rental building since it's apparently much easier to rent in a condo than a coop. I'm curious if you don't mind talking about it, Ali, why someone who knows as much about real estate and finance as you do (I've read some of your columns) chose to buy a condo as opposed to a coop.

a) It depends on what size apartment you are looking for: there is an excellent collection of Bing and Bing prewar condos converted simultaneously in the Village (59,299 and 302 West 12th Street along with 45 Christopher) but they ware mostly 12 br's, a few 2 br's and no "natural" units larger than that (except maybe some penthouses. Devonshire House appears to be selling very well also in the Village. On the Upper west Side, it seems like a lot of the prewar condos were "lesser" buildings (like 780 West End) or buildings turned into "lesser buildings" by lots of cut ups (like 530 West End).

If you could be a little more specific about what you are looking for it might be easier to give you more in depth info,

____________________

David Goldsmith
DG Neary Realty

I thought that I've complained so much on SE that everyone already knows that I'm looking for a two bedroom/ two bathroom apartment. Has to be very pet friendly since I have one dog and several other dogs who "vacation" in my apartment when their parent(s) are away for work or pleasure. Definitely want an in-unit W/D or the ability to put one in the apartment. Prefer at least 1200 square feet- larger is great, but not a deal breaker. Other than that, I'm pretty open in terms of building size, window exposures, etc. I've seen many postwar and new development condos, but I really like the prewar look and feel. I'll definitely research your above listings and any other condos that you feel are good choices. Thanks once again and happy holidays to you.

Sorry, everyone- I should have looked up the addresses before I asked for everyone's opinion on 205 East 85th Street and 237 East 88th Street. The first address is the Brompton and the second address appears to be overwhelmingly one bedroom apartments. Please disregard my above request.

Just one last thing- before someone falsely accuses me of running a dog sitting business in my apartment, we occasionally have the dogs of friends or relatives stay with us at no charge (and actually usually costs me a little in extra food/treats/dog toys) instead of going to a kennel. Just wanted to clarify.

there's a whole set of regs on "home professions" which a landlord (which is what a Coop Corporation essentially is) can't do shit about.

dwell, Lily Tomlin used to call it the "Parc Vendoom," but I think that was because of general gloominess, not because of any specific spectre.

I have no ghosts to report on West 56th though I do have a client who says she saw one on West 10th.

ali r.

Thanks, ali. I think it's a beautiful bld & a great location.

No one ever brings this point up but....which war?
Pre civil war???
post Iraq I
pre Iraq II
Do CIA/clandestine wars count.
I saw that 'Charlie Wilson's War'
that would be pre Afgahan unless we were buying in Russia. Then it would be post war and post USSR.
Then there's the war of the roses
the 100 year war
Vietnam which was never declared a war so it can have no effect on RE

Lobster - did this search for a friend on the UWs - 172 West 79th fits your criteria,(pre-war, pet friendly, W/D allowed) but in general, what you are looking for is really, really rare.

How about 220 West 93rd? PHB fits most, if not all, your criteria (2 bed/2 bath pre war condo with washer/dryer). Alas, it does not have a fireplace, but you can't have everything! I don't love the renovation and the location is so-so (close to the express train though). The apartment has also seen multiple price chops over a year and a half, so you may be able to swoop in and get it for a decent price.

http://www.sothebyshomes.com/nyc/sales/0134296

06/05/2008 Previously Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $2,995,000.
08/20/2008 Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. Listing is no longer available.
08/17/2009 Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $2,350,000.
09/04/2009 Price decreased by 15% to $2,000,000.
11/04/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $1,875,000.

I have the floorplans for the Hopkins, 172W79. The top floor/s have well-laid out 2br 2ba units with setback terraces and generous living/dining spaces. I don't know if those ever came on the market when the bldg converted. Something to keep in the back of your mind, lobster.

Thank ph41, OnTheMove and nyc10023 for your building suggestions. I'm sure I'll be looking on the UWS very soon, maybe this weekend. nyc10023, I hope that you and the baby are doing well.

One more for you to keep an eye on, lobster. There's nothing active there now, but 257 West 93rd St. is a (ballet?) school that got converted into a condo. I've seen two apartments there that I liked a lot but for the butt ugly building that consistutes the view from the north facing windows. The two apartments I saw are very spacious with lofty ceilings and washer dryers with low taxes & maintenance fees, but the depressing view was a deal killer for me. I have not seen an apartment in that building with a Southern exposure, but I suspect they are much brighter.

OnTheMove, I love the floorplan for 220 West 93rd Street, PHB. There's an open house on Sunday so I will definitely take a look. I'm not sure if I'm a fancy enough person to be allowed my own private elevator, but the apartment looks great. Thanks and have a good weekend.

Lobster: Watch for new listings in Q1 at 251 West 89th (Admaston) and 215 West 90th (Haroldon Court).

In general, I think 30yrs is right that the best buildings on the UWS were converted to coop long ago, so most pre-war condos are leftovers like the ones he mentioned, plus (more recently) Merrion, Avonova, Sabrina, 817 WEA, 905 WEA, etc....