No fee rental concessions with and without a broker

My question stems from seeing many broker listings for apartments that I've been looking at that are listed directly with management/developers.

I was able to get two months of free rent. It is absolutely to your advantage to go without a broker - otherwise, one of those free months of rent essentially goes to the broker. You can also try to get a bit of a cut. I did this last March, and have been really happy in the new apartment.

evnyc do you mind sharing which developer would be open to that I was considering doing that with glenwood not sure if they would be open to that

evnyc, I'd be interested to hear who that was too.

neeta & goose Several months ago a Rockrose salesman told me 2 months free with no broker one month free with broker.

This is consistent with a Rose Associates building we moved into in June. 1 month free without broker, no-month but broker fee paid with broker. I tried to argue that my one free month was less than a 10-15% broker fee but they said they only pay the brokers 1-month.

I also moved OUT of a Rockrose building and what I understood then was the same deal your stating. 2 months without broker, 1 month with broker plus no fee. (I assume the fee Rockrose pays is 1 month as well)

I am in a Rockrose building, but I went to a number of management companies before deciding. I was particularly impressed with Rose Associates. Glenwood and Related both have good reputations as well.

Reprinted from prior threads:

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reprinted -

AVOID BROKERS AND THEIR FEES - GO DIRECTLY TO THE SOURCE OF YOUR RENTAL NEEDS. BROKERS TEND TO TAKE YOU TO SEE THESE NO-FEE APARTMENTS FIRST AS THEY EARN 100% OF YOUR 15% BROKER'S FEE. HUSH...HUSH... THEY WILL NOT TELL YOU IT'S A NO-FEE RENTAL PROPERTY :( NOR WILL THEY REPRESENT THAT PRIOR TO SEEING THE APARTMENT. SO IF YOU NEED TO RENT, CHECK OUT THE RENTAL PROPERTY MANAGEMENT WEBSITES AND CALL THEM FOR UPDATED LISTINGS. SAVE YOURSELF THAT 15% TO BUY YOURSELF NEW FURNITURE OR HAVE A MOVE-IN WELCOME PARTY FOR FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

Excellent %u201CBIG-TIME%u201D Manhattan Rental Property Management:

Rose (www rosenyc com)
Related Rentals (www relatedrentals com)
Equity Residental (www eqr com)
Rockrose Management (www rockrosenyc com) [mostly chelsea, village, financial district, downtown condos]
Sky Management (www skymanagement com)
Glenwood Managment (www glenwoodnyc com)
BLDG Management Co. 115 E 92nd St New York, NY 10128 (212) 722-4931
Brodsky Management, Inc (www brodskyorg com)
Maclowe Management (www macklowe com) [condos below 60th street]
Urban Associates %u2013 400 W 59th St # 3, New York, NY (212) 245-1870

Above average property management (mostly prewar lowrise to a few postwar)
ATA Enterprise (www ataenterprises com)

Below Average no-fee properties [aka slumlord]:

Jakobson Properties (www nofeerentals com)

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Good luck! I think you will find the process interesting; it's not really that hard. I did get mistaken for a broker sometimes by the management people, so I didn't get the sense that many people were aware that they could do this.

I'm surprised no one (including brokers) has mentioned that some large management companies won't even deal with tenants directly and only work with brokers. BLDG, Manocherian Bros, PanAm Equities, etc per urbansherpa...unless I'm wrong? I've been shown some pretty good stuff from these portfolios. Certainly better than the Ellington (RoseNYC) that I see Steve bragging about all the time.

I can verify that what several posters say is true; if you go with a broker, the broker "eats up" part of the incentive that the landlord was willing to kick into the deal. 1 month rent free will become 0 months rent free, although the broker will be paid by the landlord. 2 months rent free will be reduced to 1 month free, plus paying the broker. That's why RDNY.com always posts the total free rent that you would get, since they are not brokers and don't claim the broker fee from the landlord.

Shamrock, not familiar with those outfits, but why bother with them if it's going to cost you several grand? Glenwood, Related, Rose, and Rockrose are some of the most respected and well-run companies in the city. The Ellington is a very well-regarded building whatever your opinion of Steve, so I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to do here.

Shamrock, looking through some of PanAm's properties, they seem to own a lot of walkup buildings (one exception being 2 Broad, but that looks like pretty much any other condo building in Fidi). Often in those older walkups there's a live-in super who also acts as the agent and collects the fee. Personally, I'd never live in one of those again, but in such cases there is absolutely no way you're going to get around the fee. Plus those supers often run the buildings like their own little fiefdoms. Definitely not in the same category as the Ellington.

evnyc, I don't disagree with the premise of the OP. I'm just stating that to ignore the aforementioned portfolios that only use brokers limits your options. I'm not sure of PanAm's walkup buildings, but am referring to the Caroline building on 23rd Street and I believe they have others. They all pay the broker fee just the same, but will only rent via brokers. I won't debate the merits for against that practice as I'm sure it evens out because they don't have to pay a leasing staff or do any marketing.

Maybe I'm wrong, but when I visited the Ellington I remember unreno'd kitchens and popcorn ceilings. Not my idea of a nice building.

Not sure why I stuck my nose in here anyway because I'm looking to buy in bburg :) I've just been renting for a long time and in many different neighborhoods.

Shamrock, I guess I don't consider being forced to use a broker an acceptable option. If the landlord wants to use one, the landlord should pay for the convenience. End of story. The OP wanted to know if there was an advantage to going directly to three of the management companies on that list I provided; in terms of concessions, there absolutely is.

Ahh...reading back I missed that he was only referring to those 3 companies. Still, I don't know why anyone would eliminate seeing a building like the Caroline (for example) just because you hate brokers. The owner is still paying the fee and the building is a top choice in the area. I did try to get it direct, but was told only a broker could take me to the apartments. Yes, I live in Caroline :)

"Not sure why I stuck my nose in here anyway because I'm looking to buy in bburg :) I've just been renting for a long time and in many different neighborhoods."

are you kidding?

Why do you ask?

Why bother with the Caroline when you could live at 88 Leonard? Or Barclay Tower? Or any of the other excellent buildings where you don't have to get rooked? Spend the extra money on nicer furniture. Take a vacation. OP was clearly willing to do the (nominal) footwork to not pay a fee, not looking for a broker to stick a hand in his wallet and run off with a couple grand.

evnyc, please re-read my previous posts. I've said twice now that the Caroline was no fee. I looked at most of the potential buildings in my target area direct from different management companies (chelsea centro, archstone chelsea, etc) as well as some further north. I don't know the buildings you mention, but a quick google search gives me financial district and an unappealing section of "TriBeCa."

and you really expect us to believe that you are a disinterested bystander, ie. not a borker? come on, give us a break.

If you give up a month concession, it's the same as handing over the money. I just picked two full-service buildings; many on this board would say the Caroline is one of the less appealing sections of Chelsea. (Then again, many would say Chelsea is a terrible neighborhood generally; to each his own.)

If you enjoy handing over money to brokers, that's one thing, but OP was looking for advice on whether it was useful to avoid borkers and retain the additional incentives. Using a borker is NEVER to the renter's advantage; it helps only the landlord. One way or another, the renter pays.

I could care less what you believe. I thought I would comment here because I found a rental through a broker (although I definitely did not intend to) in a building that only rents through brokers. Why is there a witch hunt every time someone breaks the party line. Carry on...I'll just stick to the bburg threads.

good bye...borker.

evnyc, I agree with you and never contacted a borker in my entire search except for this one building. There was no free month to give up at the Caroline, so I still don't understand your point.

When every other "luxury" building in the city in the city is offering 1-2 months of free month, you think getting your broker fee paid for is a deal? Off to billyburg with you and the rest of the trust fund babies. Those of us who have to work for the money tend to be a little more anxious about keeping it in our pockets.

okay, i'm opening myself up here, but the caroline would be one of my top options, especially as someone with a kid. their corner 2/2s with dining area are very generously porportioned, and very competitive in terms of pricing. related is fairly expensive, and with the exception of fidi and bpc, most of the units from the top management companies are still pretty expensive for the larger units. if i wanted to live in a glenwood neighborhood, which has probably the most comparable layouts and pricing, that would be one thing, but i wouldn't. and i happen to very much like where the caroline is, despite the ground-level retail. for me it's not just exactly where you are, it's where you can get to easily. and the caroline with one month free would be less expensive than most units in neighborhoods i'd prefer less with two months free.

i agree almost 100%, evnyc, but if your net cost for something you like more is lower using a broker then i think you're being short-sighted to insist that it can never be better. and i think there is no harm, assuming you have a broker you know and trust, which i do, in insisting that the broker only show you apartments that you could not find on your own. and then you can make your own decisions. my broker actually offerred to do my rental as an accomodation.

Saved me a post aboutready. From what I remember Related buildings in Chelsea are easily $800-1000 a month more than what I'm paying for comparable apartment/building.

evnyc, I imagine you're only this rude when it's over the internet. Stay classy.