so - here is the whole estimate - look forward to your comments - 2000 sf apt Demolition Remove and dispose, off premise all doors and frames. Remove and dispose the walls between the dining room and the bedroom and studio Remove all section of the wall between the entry hall and the kitchen as per construction plans. Remove all built-in throughout the apartment and built-in cabinetry in existing... [more]
so - here is the whole estimate - look forward to your comments - 2000 sf apt
Demolition
Remove and dispose, off premise all doors and frames.
Remove and dispose the walls between the dining room and the bedroom and studio
Remove all section of the wall between the entry hall and the kitchen as per construction plans.
Remove all built-in throughout the apartment and built-in cabinetry in existing den.
Remove all under window cabinetry.
Remove kitchen drop ceiling $ 7500
Remove and dispose all carpet and wood floor $ 3500
Protection and covering of the floor and building area to include
Hallways and elevators as per building specs $ 1950
Master bathroom
Remove tub, sink, tile and toilet in the master bathroom $ 2200
Replace shower wall with wonder board $ 900
Install new piping up to the riser with new shut off valve $ 4500
Install owner supplied shower faucet, sink and toilet $ 1500
Build new shower stall with laid pan and water proofing $ 1000
Install owner supplied medicine cabinet $ 350
Install owner supplied floor to ceiling new bathroom wall and
floor tile. Tile the shower ceiling $ 4100
Build a soffit above the shower $ 1000
Open the wall between the closet and the bathroom.
Rebuild a new wall with a niche and a bench $ 1200
Install owner supplied bathroom accessories $ 350
2nd Bathroom
Remove shower stall, sink, tile and toilet $ 2200
Replace shower wall with wonder board $ 900
Install new piping up to the riser with new shut off valve $ 4500
Install owner supplied shower faucet, toilet and sink $ 1500
Install owner supplied medicine cabinet $ 350
Install owner supplied tub $ 350
Install owner supplied floor to ceiling new bathroom wall and
floor tile. Tile the tub ceiling. $ 4100
Build a soffit above the tub $ 1000
Open the wall between the closet and the bathroom.
Rebuild a new wall with a niche and a bench $ 1200
Install owner supplied bathroom accessories $ 350
Guest Bathroom
Remove the tub, sink, tile and toilet $ 2100
Replace shower wall with wonder board $ 900
Install new piping up to the riser with new shut off valve $ 4500
Install owner supplied shower faucet, toilet and sink $ 1500
Install owner supplied medicine cabinet $ 350
Build new shower stall with laid pan and water proofing $ 1000
Install owner supplied floor to ceiling new bathroom wall and
floor tile. Tile the shower ceiling $ 3700
Build a soffit above the shower $ 1000
Install owner supplied bathroom accessories $ 350
Note: Frameless shower door not included
Kitchen
Remove and dispose of all kitchen cabinets, appliances
And counter tops $2100
Install owner supplied new kitchen cabinet $ 5900
Install owner supplied new kitchen back splash tile $ 1200
Replace kitchen plumbing and drain up to the riser including
The two new dishwasher and fridge water supply $ 4900
Install and connect owner supplied appliance, sink and faucet $ 1100
Relocate the gas line $ 1100
Build the laundry room and install owner supplied floor tile $ 3200
Install new washer/dryer plumbing and drain $ 3500
Floor drains are not possible to install because of the concrete floor
Electrical
Electrical as per plan $ 39000
Remove:
• piping & wiring in walls to be demolished
• re-feed wiring (switches, outlets, lighting) de-energized by demo
Install wiring for appliances:
• micro
• 2 dishwasher
• refrigerator
• stove
• washer
• dryer
• wine cooler
Install wiring for:
• switches (approx 24)
• outlets (approx 37)
• track feeds (approx 5)
• recessed lights (approx 5)
• surface-mount lights (approx 11)
• bathroom fans (approx 2)
• TV wring (approx 3)
• under cabinet lighting
Install in masonry:
• switches, outlets, lights, etc.(aprox 51 throughout apartment)
Install:
• tracks*
• fixtures*
• under cabinet lights
• dimmers, per plan
• outlets
• switches
*note: track lights and surface fixtures provided by owner
Flooring
Supply and install new hard wood floor on ¾ plywood.
Price base on a 3 ½ pre-finish white oak $ 24850
Painting
Paint the entire apartment with 1 coat of primer and 2 coat of
Moore Color TBD. Prep all wall, tape and plaster $ 7500
Note: Price include different color for itch room
Carpentry
Supply and install all new 7 foot one panel doors
Supply and install 3 bathrooms frosted glass one panel door
Build new frame $ 3600
Supply and install new 6 “baseboard throughout the apartment $ 5300
Reconfigure master bedroom hallway closet door $ 1500
Other
Build a new closet and supply door in 2nd bedroom $ 1600
Build a new wall with a pocket door in the living room $ 1200
Build a new linen closet with new door in the bathrooms
Build a new closet in 2nd bathroom with no door
Convert guest bathroom sink area in a closet with new door $ 2900
Rebuild a new closet in the office with new door $ 1100
Build a soffit above the fire place $ 1500
Replace the master bedroom closet door with 7 feet door
Re-frame $ 950
Remove all master bedroom closet door molding, repair the
Door patch and sand $ 800
This estimate doesn’t include any permit if needed
Total $ 176,700
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Response by kylewest
about 15 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
I didn't go thru this more than a minute or two, but the price sounds quite low to me. You haven't described the type of materials specified, but based on these prices it doesn't sound like the total could possibly include high end finishes--which may be fine, but if that is what you are looking for, this is way low. 3 bathrooms, a kitchen, pocket door, new closets, floors, lighting...
This is a gut reno, basically, right? What IS NOT included here--perhaps I missed that.
Are you using an architect including for construction oversight? This is a mighty undertaking to go it alone.
Is every single finish, hardware, moulding, floor board being specified for this bid? Can there by any dispute later as to upcharges because something wasn't clear? A door hinge can cost $3.95 or $59.99. A light switch $10.00 or $70.00.
Have you bid this to one or two other GCs? It may give you some perspective.
Is the bid based on detailed drawings leaving no doubt?
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Response by columbiacounty
about 15 years ago
Posts: 12708
Member since: Jan 2009
owner supplies all the expensive stuff: cabinets, tile, electrical fixtures.
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Response by Dahlia26
about 15 years ago
Posts: 145
Member since: Jun 2008
this does not include any materials except for floors, baseboards and doors - all else not included - this will have high end finishes including custom cabinetry and high end appliances
the glaring stand out to me is the electrical - we are having another estimate tomorrow just for the electrical to get a handle on it
thanks
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Response by kylewest
about 15 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
If it includes no materials except floor then it is more ballpark of what I'd expect. You can break down electrical but they'll just end up getting you on something else. It is the bottom line you really need to look at. I'd compare to 1-2 other GCs. One will have lower electric but higher demo. Etc.
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Response by glamma
about 15 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009
wow lee laura, remember to post before and after pics for us! sounds like a huge job!
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Response by jcrespin
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Mar 2007
That's a really low estimate.
I would love to find that contractor.
My estimates for 1750 sq foot renovations have been 225k-250k.
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Response by gabrielle904
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 121
Member since: Jan 2009
Hi, I know contract estimates vary tremendously in NY. Some of the prices that jumped off the page that surprised me, I agree with the electric being excessive, I would tell them that you would like them to match $180 a point as that is what the market is telling you the price is, otherwise you will have to re bid that part of the contract out. Btw it is much better if the GC is working with the electrician he knows will be there when needed, so he can't blame you for delays if another electrician isn't there when needed. however there shouldn't be that big a price difference.
1) Demo, approx $21,000, I would have guessed $15,000 - without seeing the premises, ie more if there isn't a service elevator, over 10 ft ceilings, excessive trenching for the plumber if fixtures are to be moved, horrendously numerously tiled pre war bathroom etc.
Roughly, demo guys get $120 day, 60 day rates =$7,000, Dumping truck fees $3,000, 20% profit ($2,000) additional 10% margin buffer ($1,000) =$ !3,000
2) Plumber, It is not unheard of to pay a set $2,000 a fixture, having said that there are licensed NY plumbers at $600 - $1,000 a fixture. A fixture ie, shower, toilet, sink, taking new copper pipes from the fixture back to the riser, which also includes putting in the shut off vales. So your approximate 14 fixtures = $28,000 plumbing instead of $10,000 - $14,000.
3) Electrician, $39,000 for approx 100 points. In general a point by a licensed electrician is usually about $180 a point so that is $18,000, plus without seeing it approx $5,000 for the lines to come out, tops. Not sure without seeing your masonry how much for that installation. I don't see them having to add new panels which can add another $2,000 for a large panel, so approx early $20,000's
The rest seems good especially the painting.
Good luck
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Response by gabrielle904
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 121
Member since: Jan 2009
PS In case I wasn't clear with how I got your $2,000 a bathroom fixture, it is the $4500 for piping and vales and $1,500 for fixtures = $6,000 divided by 3 fixtures = $2,000 approx per fixture.
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Response by tojc516
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 80
Member since: Jan 2009
I think some of the prices in the estimate are reasonable, and some of the items are expensive. I would certainly recommend getting at least 1 more estimate from another contractor. We just finished an approx 2000sq 3bd but only did limited kitchen work and only 2 bathrooms. We ended up paying contractor 120k. We supplied everything for bathrooms, floors, etc. So compatively speaking, sounds reasonable. Dont forget, add about 20% to that price easy as things will come up once you start the work. You must go through each item with a fine comb. NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE. In this day and age, any contractor is hot for work. Good luck, its so worth it when all the work it done!!!
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Response by CAPITALcraft
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 98
Member since: Mar 2010
@ leelaura. Not sure of your progress with your project. If you are still in need of another bid, please reply. My contractor company specialies in Manhattan apartment renovations for 25yrs .
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Response by ab_11218
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2017
Member since: May 2009
the flooring prices are crazy. you'll have 1200 sq ft after removing the wall space, bathrooms and kitchen area. that's $20 per sq ft for regular 3 1/4 inch flooring. for that, i would expect exotic woods already.
the electric is really excessive.
installing medicine cabinets and fixtures is also crazy. you're talking about 3 bathrooms where all of this work will be done in 8 hrs. $700 per bathroom X 3 = $2100. someone is getting paid very well.
replacing 3 shower walls with wonderboard will have approx $300-500 in material. you're paying $2700 for the work and materials, so that's $2200-2400 for the work of 2 guys in 8 hr day.
you have this "Install new piping up to the riser with new shut off valve $4500" 3 times as well for a total of 13,500. i know that plumbers charge an arm and a leg, but here they're charging you for the body as well. this is again a few hundred in material and 2-3 days worth of work.
this appears 3 times as well "Install owner supplied shower faucet, toilet and sink $ 1500 ". i did this with my friend on 1 bathroom in 3 hours and he hasn't done plumbing work in 10 yrs, so he was rusty. anyone who knows what they're doing will have 3 bathrooms done in 5-6 hrs and you'll pay $4500.
from this estimate, it seems that the carpentry work, door installation, painting and moldings are the only prices that are reasonable. i would have actually expected what i pointed out above to be lower and the painting/carpentry to be higher. i would find other GC who will give you reasonable prices, your pipes are not made of platinum and electric is not made of gold.
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Response by lacarruk1
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 18
Member since: Feb 2007
leelaura - I have done several successful renovations with the following contractor and I suggest you contact him for an estimate. He does all his own carpentry and has a licensed electrician, plumber and a floor guy too.
His team is top notch. Clean up every day. He actually did most of the lofts in my buildings renovations. I think you may find better pricing.
Joe Cinque - 917-497-2172
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Response by 300_mercer
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 10177
Member since: Feb 2007
leelaura, will you be able to give us the rest of the renovation estimate?
Architect, Permit and expediter fee, Materials. My guess will be $75k, $25k and $250K. Another $350K on top of labor $175k estimate. Am I in the right ball-park? Thanks.
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Response by Dahlia26
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 145
Member since: Jun 2008
No architect - interior designer - her fee for space planning and all drawings including electrical, lighting etc for permits was $7500
expeditor - $2500
they started demo last monday - it is amazing - they knocked down most of the walls - i am impressed with his crew who are incredibly intelligent, hardworking and neat
this week they remove all 3 bathrooms - raise the dropped ceilings and pull up the floors. All doors and frames coming out- raising And widening all.
My cousin is a photographer and took all before pix and will do duribg and after.
Next is ordering all bathroom fixtures and tile
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Response by Dahlia26
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 145
Member since: Jun 2008
Permits - aroubd $1600
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Response by lacarruk1
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 18
Member since: Feb 2007
What was your final estimate then?
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Response by unclebob
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 16
Member since: Mar 2010
eveybody is trying t help but there is a few critical points taht have not been addressed, first "field and/or site conditions and second the logistics and machinations of the project itself, access, hours, insurance, bonding, etc, etc. when all these factors are considered plus the actual field work then the cost of the project can be determinered. need help blog Ask Uncle Bob@typepan.com, free advise for most things in RE and Construction, over 4 decades of hands on personal experience.
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Response by rvargas
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 152
Member since: Nov 2005
just like my uncle bob, you can't even spell your own email address correctly. you might want to get that right if you are going to spam the boards...
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Response by unclebob
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 16
Member since: Mar 2010
in haste we all make mistakes but my gratis advise will stand the test of time.
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Response by Alicejohn
over 8 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Aug 2016
Are you offering to take Free Estimate for remodeling, repairing, painting, building constructions.
Thanks
Alice John
http://alamconstructionnewyork.com
'/%3e%3c/g%3e%3c/svg%3e)
I didn't go thru this more than a minute or two, but the price sounds quite low to me. You haven't described the type of materials specified, but based on these prices it doesn't sound like the total could possibly include high end finishes--which may be fine, but if that is what you are looking for, this is way low. 3 bathrooms, a kitchen, pocket door, new closets, floors, lighting...
This is a gut reno, basically, right? What IS NOT included here--perhaps I missed that.
Are you using an architect including for construction oversight? This is a mighty undertaking to go it alone.
Is every single finish, hardware, moulding, floor board being specified for this bid? Can there by any dispute later as to upcharges because something wasn't clear? A door hinge can cost $3.95 or $59.99. A light switch $10.00 or $70.00.
Have you bid this to one or two other GCs? It may give you some perspective.
Is the bid based on detailed drawings leaving no doubt?
owner supplies all the expensive stuff: cabinets, tile, electrical fixtures.
this does not include any materials except for floors, baseboards and doors - all else not included - this will have high end finishes including custom cabinetry and high end appliances
the glaring stand out to me is the electrical - we are having another estimate tomorrow just for the electrical to get a handle on it
thanks
If it includes no materials except floor then it is more ballpark of what I'd expect. You can break down electrical but they'll just end up getting you on something else. It is the bottom line you really need to look at. I'd compare to 1-2 other GCs. One will have lower electric but higher demo. Etc.
wow lee laura, remember to post before and after pics for us! sounds like a huge job!
That's a really low estimate.
I would love to find that contractor.
My estimates for 1750 sq foot renovations have been 225k-250k.
Hi, I know contract estimates vary tremendously in NY. Some of the prices that jumped off the page that surprised me, I agree with the electric being excessive, I would tell them that you would like them to match $180 a point as that is what the market is telling you the price is, otherwise you will have to re bid that part of the contract out. Btw it is much better if the GC is working with the electrician he knows will be there when needed, so he can't blame you for delays if another electrician isn't there when needed. however there shouldn't be that big a price difference.
1) Demo, approx $21,000, I would have guessed $15,000 - without seeing the premises, ie more if there isn't a service elevator, over 10 ft ceilings, excessive trenching for the plumber if fixtures are to be moved, horrendously numerously tiled pre war bathroom etc.
Roughly, demo guys get $120 day, 60 day rates =$7,000, Dumping truck fees $3,000, 20% profit ($2,000) additional 10% margin buffer ($1,000) =$ !3,000
2) Plumber, It is not unheard of to pay a set $2,000 a fixture, having said that there are licensed NY plumbers at $600 - $1,000 a fixture. A fixture ie, shower, toilet, sink, taking new copper pipes from the fixture back to the riser, which also includes putting in the shut off vales. So your approximate 14 fixtures = $28,000 plumbing instead of $10,000 - $14,000.
3) Electrician, $39,000 for approx 100 points. In general a point by a licensed electrician is usually about $180 a point so that is $18,000, plus without seeing it approx $5,000 for the lines to come out, tops. Not sure without seeing your masonry how much for that installation. I don't see them having to add new panels which can add another $2,000 for a large panel, so approx early $20,000's
The rest seems good especially the painting.
Good luck
PS In case I wasn't clear with how I got your $2,000 a bathroom fixture, it is the $4500 for piping and vales and $1,500 for fixtures = $6,000 divided by 3 fixtures = $2,000 approx per fixture.
I think some of the prices in the estimate are reasonable, and some of the items are expensive. I would certainly recommend getting at least 1 more estimate from another contractor. We just finished an approx 2000sq 3bd but only did limited kitchen work and only 2 bathrooms. We ended up paying contractor 120k. We supplied everything for bathrooms, floors, etc. So compatively speaking, sounds reasonable. Dont forget, add about 20% to that price easy as things will come up once you start the work. You must go through each item with a fine comb. NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE, NEGOTIATE. In this day and age, any contractor is hot for work. Good luck, its so worth it when all the work it done!!!
@ leelaura. Not sure of your progress with your project. If you are still in need of another bid, please reply. My contractor company specialies in Manhattan apartment renovations for 25yrs .
the flooring prices are crazy. you'll have 1200 sq ft after removing the wall space, bathrooms and kitchen area. that's $20 per sq ft for regular 3 1/4 inch flooring. for that, i would expect exotic woods already.
the electric is really excessive.
installing medicine cabinets and fixtures is also crazy. you're talking about 3 bathrooms where all of this work will be done in 8 hrs. $700 per bathroom X 3 = $2100. someone is getting paid very well.
replacing 3 shower walls with wonderboard will have approx $300-500 in material. you're paying $2700 for the work and materials, so that's $2200-2400 for the work of 2 guys in 8 hr day.
you have this "Install new piping up to the riser with new shut off valve $4500" 3 times as well for a total of 13,500. i know that plumbers charge an arm and a leg, but here they're charging you for the body as well. this is again a few hundred in material and 2-3 days worth of work.
this appears 3 times as well "Install owner supplied shower faucet, toilet and sink $ 1500 ". i did this with my friend on 1 bathroom in 3 hours and he hasn't done plumbing work in 10 yrs, so he was rusty. anyone who knows what they're doing will have 3 bathrooms done in 5-6 hrs and you'll pay $4500.
from this estimate, it seems that the carpentry work, door installation, painting and moldings are the only prices that are reasonable. i would have actually expected what i pointed out above to be lower and the painting/carpentry to be higher. i would find other GC who will give you reasonable prices, your pipes are not made of platinum and electric is not made of gold.
leelaura - I have done several successful renovations with the following contractor and I suggest you contact him for an estimate. He does all his own carpentry and has a licensed electrician, plumber and a floor guy too.
His team is top notch. Clean up every day. He actually did most of the lofts in my buildings renovations. I think you may find better pricing.
Joe Cinque - 917-497-2172
leelaura, will you be able to give us the rest of the renovation estimate?
Architect, Permit and expediter fee, Materials. My guess will be $75k, $25k and $250K. Another $350K on top of labor $175k estimate. Am I in the right ball-park? Thanks.
No architect - interior designer - her fee for space planning and all drawings including electrical, lighting etc for permits was $7500
expeditor - $2500
they started demo last monday - it is amazing - they knocked down most of the walls - i am impressed with his crew who are incredibly intelligent, hardworking and neat
this week they remove all 3 bathrooms - raise the dropped ceilings and pull up the floors. All doors and frames coming out- raising And widening all.
My cousin is a photographer and took all before pix and will do duribg and after.
Next is ordering all bathroom fixtures and tile
Permits - aroubd $1600
What was your final estimate then?
eveybody is trying t help but there is a few critical points taht have not been addressed, first "field and/or site conditions and second the logistics and machinations of the project itself, access, hours, insurance, bonding, etc, etc. when all these factors are considered plus the actual field work then the cost of the project can be determinered. need help blog Ask Uncle Bob@typepan.com, free advise for most things in RE and Construction, over 4 decades of hands on personal experience.
just like my uncle bob, you can't even spell your own email address correctly. you might want to get that right if you are going to spam the boards...
in haste we all make mistakes but my gratis advise will stand the test of time.
Are you offering to take Free Estimate for remodeling, repairing, painting, building constructions.
Thanks
Alice John
http://alamconstructionnewyork.com