PreWar Apartment Features

> Then each had a lav off the kitchen, with the little windows you see from the street.

I saw at least 2 apartments that didn't. And one that did, they told me was converted from maid's room. It was easy to do because it was off kitchen with the pipes and all. Maybe it was just a standard upgrade in the later years?

> In one of the recent sales the big closet was turned into a lav.

I definitely saw one of those.

That'd be one tiny maid's room. No room for a bed.

Whenever possible in these petty-genteel prewars with no maid's bedroom-and-bath, there'd be that kitchen john if feasible, and especially if the other bath(s) couldn't be gotten to except by going through living room or bedrooms. They weren't squeamish about a toilet off the kitchen, but they were about the maid actually using a master bath.

A good example from as late as 1938 is 246 WEA, where an original 1912 reception room was split into two kitchens. The new kitchen for the one-bedroom B-line had a little lav inserted in a corner, complete with a new little window punched through the WEA wall. Makes no sense now, but they did it anyway. It's the little window between the third and fourth big windows from the left at http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/image/95/4232595.jpg.

Gocha.

> That'd be one tiny maid's room. No room for a bed.

One guy had an elliptical in his...

and I did have a dorm room bed that small once.

I'll give you a key pre-war feature (at least in my experience which is more with buildings that someone said are really called "old" and not "prewar")...closets that don't really close. In the apartment I grew up in, the closets never shut tight enough for any of my mother's various cats not to be able to get in or out on their own. Now that I live in a post war, for the at least the third of fourth time, I have managed to imprision one of my felines for several hours. (My previous apartment was "old" but supposedly renovated and only had one closet so it was always stuffed too full to close regardless). Thank goodness they have remarkable ability to "hold it"....

So I'm not sure if closets that actually close are a negative or postive. (My bedroom has a "closet system" that tuns out the light when opened. Unfortunately the cats CAN open that door even when its completely shut...but they can't close it tight enough to shut it off. And I can't charge them for the electricty wasted.)

I was watching a this old house when they redid a brownstone. They made the point that there basically weren't any closets.

Mass.

The kitchen terlet / no maid's room thing is not so much a matter of petty-genteel. It's a function of the end of immigration in the 1920s, and with it the end of the live-in European maid. You'll find that configuration in many of the grander buildings from the mid-1920s on, including the Beresford, for example. That contrasts sharply with apartments from 10 or 15 years earlier, which often had two maid's rooms, and sometimes three.

Schwartz & Gross did about half of the prewar buildings on the UWS, or perhaps they were just highly self-promotional ... their names are always there, staring at you from the cornerstone (or some such place).

"The kitchen terlet / no maid's room thing is not so much a matter of petty-genteel. It's a function of the end of immigration in the 1920s, and with it the end of the live-in European maid. You'll find that configuration in many of the grander buildings from the mid-1920s on, including the Beresford, for example. That contrasts sharply with apartments from 10 or 15 years earlier, which often had two maid's rooms, and sometimes three."

Actually, it's less a result of the end of mass immigration in the 1920s than it is a result of stricter employment laws prohibiting people from treating domestic staff like household appliances that can be stuffed into a broom closet at the end of the day.

They live on in places like India. See the high-rise plans at http://planetgodrej.com, for instance.

"Spectacular views, modern architecture, and trusted quality"

I think it's a bit scary that they have to actually put the word "trusted" in a pitch line for high-rise buildings.

http://www.youtube.com/user/fundaman

rsm321, I've been thinking for the past few days about your above suggestions to me about an apartment search. You indicated that it might be helpful to first concentrate on a neighborhood before deciding on prewar vs. postwar, etc. and I agree. I can picture myself living in several NYC neighborhoods including UWS, parts of the Village and that might be why it's been difficult for me to narrow my search. If I remember you correctly, you are a broker exclusively for buyers and I can see that you are very good at your profession. I will check SE once in a while and will look out for your posts. Even though we've never met, you've helped me alot and I appreciate it.

somewhereelse, here's the original plan for a C-line duplex at 230 E 50th, like the one you saw: http://nyre.cul.columbia.edu/projects/view/18064

Maid's room on lower floor, with sink and toilet. The kitchen upstairs, with maid's shower. The two bedrooms stacked at the back.