80% Carpet Rules

And in the PC world we live in, the airlines shouldn't serve nuts any more, and schools shouldn't allow PB&J sandwiches.

But what are airlines to do about their fabric upholstery seats, and carpeted aisles?

and the fact that many people don't fit in the seats? ph41, you don't have to fly. you do have to live somewhere. and we're not talking about requiring the ll to rip up things, etc. we're talking about not having to put down dust catchers. please.

matt, no, most don't. i've lived in a coop. i've known many people who've lived in other coops. if you indeed have any power in your coop, luckily your coop is very unusual indeed.

You don't have to live in Manhattan in a high rise, do you?

I've lived in 2 apts. In Manhattan for a good portion of my life and I have never had a single square foot of carpet. And if someone told me to cover 80% of the floor with carpet, I would tell them to go F*** themself. I have a big dog so the carpet would look like shit within 2 weeks.

AR I am thankful, as I am sure you are, that your daughter doesn't have any nut allergies because I do like those little packages they hand out on the plane.

this is so bizarre. that people would honestly resent people not putting in carpeting when it could cause physical harm to a kid. and saying that the family should move. what if the family owns and then someone in the family contracts allergies? not at all uncommon.

i'm not talking about horrific noise issues here. i'm just talking basic living arrangements and decency.

"but i can tell you that it is uncomfortable knowing that they could just because you were unlucky enough to rent an apartment near someone who has zero tolerance and you can't put down floor coverings."

it's your CHOICE to live with this level of stress.

You can just as easily move to a nice small house in Brooklyn or Queens.

"And if someone told me to cover 80% of the floor with carpet, I would tell them to go F*** themself. "

And in our building, we would begin levying fines until you complied.

Ok now back to pitying aboutready.

"what if the family owns and then someone in the family contracts allergies? "

Then they move.

Situations change all the time. Families get bigger -- people move to bigger spaces. Families get smaller -- Mom and Dad move to an empty nest apartment.

You have to roll with the punches.

right, matt. people should really have to move if they have allergies. yes, indeed. carpeting is more important than the right to expect consistent shelter. you should have to sell if you get allergies. wow, once again, where are you based? people really ought to avoid you like the plague.

give me a f'ng break.

ight, matt. people should really have to move if they have allergies. yes, indeed. carpeting is more important than the right to expect consistent shelter. "

No one is denying you shelter, Drama Queen.

Cover the damn floors and buy a vacuum.

Or move someplace that doesn't require you cover the floors.

If I had a kid with serious asthma, first thing I would do is move out of Manhattan to an area with better air, like the suburbs.

Not doing so is the same as putting your own needs (shorter commute, etc) ahead of a child's health.

Aboutready is more important than even her daughter.

Fact of the matter is, living in NYC for kids with asthma is much worse than living in any of the suburbs (Westchester, Long Island).

You can see county by county emergency room visits for asthma by kids aged 0-17 here, look at the bar charts on the left:

http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/ny_asthma/ed/pdf/asthmaed2b.pdf

Clearly, Manhattan is about triple the incidents than the suburbs. I'd move for their health, no need for kids to suffer when a simple move will make their life much better, even if the parents have to give up some of their own lifestyle. It's worth it.

"Clearly, Manhattan is about triple the incidents than the suburbs. I'd move for their health, no need for kids to suffer when a simple move will make their life much better, even if the parents have to give up some of their own lifestyle. It's worth it."

you're making way too much sense..better stop now, otherwise you'll get a "f__k you" from AR

yet another thread hijacked, sorry OP

Actually, it is even worse then those statistics would indicate. PCV/Stuy Town is in one of the worst areas in Manhattan for kids with asthma:

http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/ny_asthma/ed/zipcode/pdf/new_y_m3.pdf

And if you look at many of the nice towns in Westchester (as a suburban example) they are significantly lower than the county average, so the differential is much more than 3 times the risk.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/ny_asthma/ed/zipcode/pdf/westc_m3.pdf

These maps clearly show that if you can, moving out of Manhattan would be better for asthmatic kids health. Which is pretty obvious to anyone who ever opens a window in Manhattan and then has to clean off all the dirt/grime that floated in.

And it appears that carpets and a HEPA vacuum are better than hardwood floors:

Asthma: Carpets vs Timber Floors
by Warren McLaren, Sydney on 06.11.05
Just as everyone is pulling up their carpets and sanding back the exposed floorboards out comes new research to say “Whoa”. According to Dr Heike Neumeister-Kemp, from the School of Biological Science at Murdoch University in Perth, Australia, all is not be as we first suspected. Her research has uncovered some myths about vacuuming and floor surfaces. Seems that “mould and bacteria spores, and fine particles, PM 10 and PM 2.5 - that's the little one that can go in your lungs” after falling on hard timber floor are being disturbed by air movement and sent back up into the air (and throats). Whereas vaccums with high efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filters lift and clean carpet fibres, so they can hold such particles out of harms way.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/06/asthma_carpets.php

modern, nice. out of the huge amount of literature and scientific studies out there you find an '05 article that disagrees with what most doctors say.

and really. what an assholic thing to write. maybe we should move all the kids in the projects to westchester also.

http://www.thevillager.com/villger_293/concernsonconed.html

Neither frigid temperatures on a recent Monday night nor late notice deterred dozens of East Village-area residents from attending a public hearing about Con Edison’s pollution permit for its E. 14th St. power plant. Many believed the regulations have not been stringent enough in capping harmful emissions from the facility.

The renewal of Title V — a permit that determines what amount of pollution is permissible — prompted the legislative hearing at which 50 people gathered in a starkly lit gymnasium in Campos Plaza to have a chance to petition directly an administrative law judge from D.E.C., Helen Goldberg.

http://stuytownluxliving.com/2009/05/poorer-neighborhood-stuy-town-is-full-of-asthma-triggers.html

Housing in poorer neighborhoods are more likely to have structural issues. Mold, rodent, and cockroach infestations are present in 50-60 percent in areas such as upper Manhattan, Stuyvesant Town, parts of Queens and Central Brooklyn, according to the 2008 Housing and Vacancy survey by the U.S. Census Bureau. Droppings from pests are known asthma triggers.

Oh and then curse at everyone else.

The kids in the projects don't have a choice as to where to live. You do.

I would not have brought up the statistics except YOU claimed the welfare of kids mattered above all else, such as building regulations.

The logical conclusion of your legitimate concern for the health of your daughter is to check the statistical maps and find a place to live with better air for her.

Manhattan is not the place she should be.

modern, thanks for your concern but her asthma is now resolved. the doctors didn't think westchester would be such a good choice given that her second strongest trigger was seasonal allergies.

but again, thanks for chiming in.

I fail to understand why you turned this into a conversation about yourself , which only resulted in unneccessary distress. The original post never brought the issue up.

I am truly happy to hear asthma is no longer a problem.

Where will you be ordering your new carpets from?

as we are not a noisy family and our neighbors have never complained, we will be refinishing the wood floors shortly.

lmao!

AR - I've read 100% natural wool rugs are great for indoor air quality. And what what cork flooring? Cork floors are naturally anti-microbacterial, doesn't cling to dust, anti-static, lessens noise, no VOC off gasing, and etc.. I had my bedroom done with cork. It feels great on the feet and it's not expensive - like a cost of a nice rug but covers an entire room.

wow, the vitriol here is crazy, and I'm not exactly the biggest fan of aboutready. all she is saying is that the issue should be noise, not a made up rule about floor coverings. thankfully, matt's board, as in so many other areas, is the exception, not the rule in most co-ops. the vast majority of boards don't go around issuing fines like the gestapo against the tenants. and most normal people (read: not matt), are understanding and would be understanding of a situation like AR's daughter's health issues, and if she can keep the noise to a reasonable level wouldn't get themselves into too much of a bother about some carpets - and besides, unless they are thick, floor coverings don't necessarily reduce noise all that much.
we make concessions for other's issues all the time - i don't use a wheelchair, but i pay (indirectly), for building codes that mandate accessibility. according to matt's logic, all handicapped people should be sequestered in ranch houses.

but this points out again that when considering purchasing a co-op or condo, a potential buyer needs to understand what the board is all about - you should be interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you, to make sure its a good fit. that's why i strongly disagree when realtors, or anyone, tells people that they need to try and pretend they (or their finances) are something they are not when applying/interviewing. matt's building, whether by choice or his own whims, is clearly as uptight as they come - which is great for some, bad for others. they have the right to run the building as they see fit, and if that's what you want, great. if not, find a more normal building.

a particular bugaboo is when realtors tell people not to mention renovations they are considering. i can't think of a worse policy. if the board will make it difficult for you to do what you want, why would you want to 'sneak in' and then try and get your reno's done? that seems like a recipe for disaster.

I grew up in a city apartment without carpeting (no allergies--at least until I was an adult, just parents who couldn't afford or didn't see the need for rugs) and from the time I could walk my parents put the FEAR OF GOD into me about running, or otherwise making noise that would disturb the people downstairs. (No physical abuse but the point got accross). On very few occasions they came up to complain and I was appropriately punished. I think part of the problem here (and this has nothing to do with AR) is that few parents today want to put the fear of God into their kids about anything and thus allow them to run wild without regard to other people's feelings in the same way they take kids to upscale restaurants and let them behave like it was McDonalds thus disrupting other adult parties enjoyment of their three-four figure evenings.

On the other hand I don't think you should put your kid at health risk but isn't there some non-allergic floor covering that could be installed to insulate against noise. Someone mentioned cork...would that work? Could be a little expensive for a rental (unless we are talking about a New York style 10 year rental) but certainly an option for an ownershihp situation.

i don't recall cork being an option back then. but it does sound like a good alternative.

i'm quite happy to put the fear of god in my child, and in her friends as well.

wasn't this supposed to be one of the benefits of owning?

Nice part about renting, if the problem doesn't go away, you wait for the lease to end and move...

my building has concrete floors, and then a padding layer under the hardwood floors. I rarely hear anything.

I like brazilian carpeting.

the vitriol here is crazy
the cursing and stalking doesn't exactly promote the a congenial atmosphere

I own and my building has 10" thick concrete floors. I think it's called a steel cage construction with concrete encasing the steel horizontal and vertical beams. It was built in 1929. It sounds as if the noise from above can't be heard but that's not the case. Granted "airborne" noise is pretty minimal and I practically never hear that, but I do hear "impact" noise everyday, all the time. When something drops on the floor it sounds like a big drum. The steel beams carry noise from several units above you and the side of your unit. It's crazy. But, I have gotten use to it (well, not really), and go out all the time during the noise hours (5-9PM).

I hate the 80% carpet rule. I'd rather redo my floors and do it right. New construction should not be allowed to list hard wood as an amenity while knowing they (the developers) did the very minimal code requirement for sound abatement for floors. 1/8" cork that is glued-on in patches does not do anything for sound control.

^--No, I think it's called "steel framed", like the Empire State Building.

Developers are you paying attention? There was actually an article in the NY Times a couple of months ago about soundproofing materials being used in new construction. I think it mentioned the Edge in Williamsburg... WHY the Edge is not using this as a selling point is beyond me. People don't want to put down carpets, and people don't want to hear their neighbors either - I am sure people would pay a premium to live in a building that utilized soundproofing material in the floor, ceiling and walls.

I agree, more sound-proofing material in new construction is a positive. Personally I think a nice Wool area rugs add style to an apartment.

I think a nice wool area rug in the living room is great too. It's just that "80%-85%" of your floor being covered is a lot. At that percentage, may as well just have wall-2-wall carpeting (yuk).

Never knew about the soundproofing at the Edge...then again my building was pitched by the sales agent and developers as "soundproofed" because of the 10" thick concrete floors! Rolls-eyes....

Like I said before, cork floors is a good option, but don't fool yourself into thinking you can go hog wild and do mixed martial arts on the floors without any complaints from your downstairs neighbors. It's just better than hardwood. There 1'x1' cork tiles that are solid 1/2" cork thick, and 1'x3' or 6"x3' cork tongue and groove click planks. There are thicker commercial grade too. Shopping for cork is the biggest PITA! So many varieties....

The article mentions 80 Metropolitan and 37 Bridge - NOT the Edge. Here is the link - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/realestate/13post.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=soundproofing&st=cse

I think a nice wool area rug in the living room is great too. It's just that "80%-85%" of your floor being covered is a lot.

I haven't done the math, but consider... Hallway mat, furniture 8 by 10 area rug, rug in the dining room, bedroom furniture, bed + area rug in bedroom. 80% doesn't sound so rediculous

I never understood why people wouldn't WANT to have rugs on their floors.

Living in a home with nothing but hard shiny floors is about as comfortable as living in a museum or library. And if you have kids, there's nothing as uncomfortable as playing on a hard surface versus a nice comfy rug.

Pure wool rugs actually act as air filters -- the wool is a "living fiber" with a breathable fiber structure that does not promote the growth of bacteria or dust mites. The natural crimp of wool also creates millions of tiny pockets that trap air and act as the ideal insulator for both temperature and sound.

And here's the important part, for those who suffer from allergies: the natural crimp of the wool fibers grab onto and hold dust particles until the rug is vacuumed -- dust particles and other particulate matter that would otherwise settle onto a cold, hard surface that scatter into the air with the slightest movement. And unless you mop your floors three times a day, every day, in the absence of rugs, there's no avoiding blowing this particulate matter around the air all the time.

Yes, that's right -- exactly what that '05 article stated, that aboutready says "most doctors disagree with". That might even be the case. It also certainly wouldn't be the first time doctors were wrong. For decades "most doctors" also told us to avoid butter like battery acid and load up on a hydrogenated petroleum byproduct known as MARGARINE for "heart health"! "Most doctors" also insisted that homosexuality was a mental disorder that could only be "treated" with electro-shock therapy. I suppose it depends on where you stand in history -- every contemporary period thinks they know all the answers, pointing to the crude ignorance of their forbearers of previous generations.

And thus it shall be when people will look back on 2010 in absolute horror, wondering how stupid we could have been as a society to drink chlorinated and fluoridated water, eat processed foods with hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup, and take the snake oil that today's doctors are prescribing under high-tech names like Zocor, Prozac, and Lipitor.

But back to the health benefits of rugs. I mentioned earlier that I did a story on this years ago, and interviewed several families with children who suffered asthma. Interestingly enough, all of the families had rugs on the floors, and most of the families had a brand of vacuum I'd never heard of: Filter Queen. Apparently it's the most powerful vacuum on the market, with the best filtration system. These people swore by their vacuums.

Aboutready, perhaps you might want to look into it. The other families used Kirby vacuums -- a brand I was very familiar with, and which has consistently beat out the Dyson for suction and air flow.

Matt,
The story has changed. The child no longer has asthma, it's now an allergy.

OMG.

By tomorrow it'll just be a cold.

rs, you're so full of it. asthma is often caused by allergies. some children have allergies but no asthma. my duaghter has always had allergies, but didn't contract asthma until she was five. thankfully, a few years and a couple of trips to hospitals later, she grew out of it. unusual to grow out of asthma after only a few years, but certainly not unheard of.

and i for one am grateful. but hey, feel free to have a good laugh about a child's former illness.

"I own and my building has 10" thick concrete floors. I think it's called a steel cage construction with concrete encasing the steel horizontal and vertical beams. It was built in 1929. It sounds as if the noise from above can't be heard but that's not the case. Granted "airborne" noise is pretty minimal and I practically never hear that, but I do hear "impact" noise everyday, all the time. When something drops on the floor it sounds like a big drum. The steel beams carry noise from several units above you and the side of your unit. It's crazy. But, I have gotten use to it (well, not really), and go out all the time during the noise hours (5-9PM)."

Well, because its not just about thickness... you need to make sure its not a thick surface that doesn't just transmit the vibration. Hence the buffer layer... works like a charm. Don't know what the hell it is, but you manage the layers properly such that they don't transmit the noise.

I hate having rugs everywhere - esthetically, I prefer bare wood floors - matte, not high-gloss.

"feel free to have a good laugh about a child's former illness."

I don't think anyone is laughing at your child's *former* illness.

Nor are we laughing about how you lied to us all evening yesterday, implying that she's just one carpet-fiber away from a painful death at Mt. Sinai.

"I prefer bare wood floors - matte, not high-gloss."

And it's nice to have the option.

But if the building requires the floors be mostly covered, you'll have to find your preferred aesthetic elsewhere.

Confirmed only allergies now. No reason not to have carpet.

> I hate having rugs everywhere - esthetically, I prefer bare wood floors - matte, not high-gloss.

Agreed. I'll take a rug out of the shower, maybe next to the bed, but I like the way the wood looks.

And if its about not popping dust up, hey, thats what the vacuum is for. If you prefer to have it caught in your rug, and some of it stay permanently (no vacuum is getting 100% of it), great for you.

But, keep in mind that on dust, you have dust mites. Which are what cause allergies for many folks.

Its so much easier to vacuum and mop a quality wood floor.

I agree with Matt, nobody is laughing at the child...

Agreed. Now she's just being an entitled bee-yatch.

oh, yeah, and if you really want a dust catcher, try a hepa filter.

rs, we're a very quiet family. as printer pointed out, that was never the issue. it's that the rules can be enforced for little or no noise. i don't need carpets, and i never needed them, because my neighbors are quite nice. however, when we moved in we were told by the management company that if anyone complained, regardless of their accuracy, we would have to put in carpets. i think the agent said something like, well you better hope your neighbors aren't jerks. but feel free to distort. you always do.

matt, i never lied. when we moved in here she had been hospitalized for asthma a couple of times. you are a tard. but why argue with someone who thinks he can control the world?

Cork is hypoallergenic....

"when we moved in we were told by the management company that if anyone complained, regardless of their accuracy, we would have to put in carpets."

So you were given tacit approval to break the rules (unless and until someone called the management on it), and you're still whining about it.

Amazing.

A.R..
You created a kerfuffle over the carpet linking it to Asthma. Now you say there is no asthma. Under the rental agreement you agreed to the stipulation with full knowlege of it(perhaps disingenously). I dont' understand the jerks comment. I cannot see your neighbors pushing the issue unless you were encroaching upon their rights to enjoy a quiet apartment. If your neighbors have not pushed the issue, consider yourself lucky.

Unreasonable neighbors? Just complain back about them. They live below you; complain to management how their banging on the ceiling with a broom stick, can hear their tv, stereo, can hear them yelling and screaming. Call 311 phone in quality of life noise issue against your jackass neighbors.

That usually does the trick to self-entitled jackasses that think 1db of outside noise is "infringing" on their god given right for absolute quietness in this country's most populous and densely packed city.

"So you were given tacit approval to break the rules (unless and until someone called the management on it), and you're still whining about it."

Let me get this right... the people who write the rules tell you its ok to do something, and listening to them is "breaking the rules".

funny.

matt, i'm not whining. that would be a bitchy thing, your domain. i'm saying the system is f'd up. the carpet isn't the issue, rude people are. and when we moved in and had the issue, she still had asthma. and management gave me tacit approval, but not so much, no? like it could be revoked at any moment? so this isn't relevant to anyone else? self-centered, much? only your particular concerns matter? like stiffing the staff at holidays? don't you have any board packages to review and deny?

rs, nice trying to talk your way out of this one. doesn't fly. but good effort.

Ever notice that when aboutready is criticized she brings up the mother's cancer or the daughter's asthma and calls you heartless?

She is entitled to her opinion, but you are not.

My heart goes out to the OP who will consider jumping into the East River after reading all this ......... when really all she needs to do is go bang on her neighbor's door when her neighbor's kid is too damned noisy.

poorish, sorry. your heart should go out to the people in haiti. someone who went snooping to take a look to see the neighbors' carpet situation? without explaining how was able to see?

but yes, you should just have a nice conversation if possible. we even did so with the frat boys upstairs. after one particularly frolicsome evening we saw them in the elevator. with good grace and humor we told them that we found their antics refreshing but also tiresome. and asked that they limit them and only have them on weekends in the future, at least at those noise levels. they apologized and things have been grand since.

aboutready
6 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse poorish, sorry. your heart should go out to the people in haiti. someone who went snooping to take a look to see the neighbors' carpet situation? without explaining how was able to see?

So an automatic assumption of guilt?

Maybe the people who don't have carpet and are inconsiderate to their neighbors are entitled to treble monetary damages.

aboutready
6 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse
... we told them that we found their antics refreshing but also tiresome.

"Refreshing" and "tiresome". Interesting. Oh, and boring.

I may have missed a response but in the 80% rule, if you are redoing the floors are there acceptable subfloors that would insulate sound enough to soothe the neighbors and board? I'm in this boat at the moment about to start a renovation.

"if you are redoing the floors are there acceptable subfloors that would insulate sound enough to soothe the neighbors and board? I'm in this boat at the moment about to start a renovation."

Probably not.

Most of these technologies are largely unproven -- meaning, if we as individual board members haven't experienced it ourselves, we're not going to believe it.

And some buildings, particularly prewar wood frame buildings, won't allow permanent installation of soundproofing *inside* the floors, because it would interfere with the building's steam heating system. 100 years ago, these steam systems were engineered with the assumption that the heat would be able to circulate freely *through* the floors. Over-insulating one unit for the purpose of soundproofing short-circuits that system, and creates problems for heat flow to the surrounding apartments.

Rules state: "Unless specifically authorized by the Lessor, the floors of each apartment must be covered with rugs, carpeting, or other noise reducing material to the extent of at least 80% of the entire square footage of each room and hallway, regardless of floor area covered by furniture, excepting only kitchens, bathrooms, closets, and entrance foyers".

So, as I see it, it appears that if I use noise reducing material that I believe to be sufficient (subfloor material or something) then I would not be in violation of our house rules and I would not be held to install rugs/carpeting to such a high degree. Of course an alteration agreement would probably bring the installation of hardwood floors up to the board at that time... Meaning I wouldn't be able to slip them in without explaining my rational.

Considering the building (and many like it) had hardwood parquet flooring during the conversion.. and I know there are plenty of units with either the original (perhaps refurbished) or newer hardwood.. that something must be allowed.

Guessing that is a standard clause statement for house rules. Can you comment on your take of 'noise-reducing material?

"So, as I see it, it appears that if I use noise reducing material that I believe to be sufficient (subfloor material or something) then I would not be in violation of our house rules and I would not be held to install rugs/carpeting to such a high degree. Of course an alteration agreement would probably bring the installation of hardwood floors up to the board at that time... Meaning I wouldn't be able to slip them in without explaining my rational."

No.

"Unless specifically authorized by the Lessor, the floors of each apartment must be covered with rugs, carpeting, or other noise reducing material to the extent of at least 80% of the entire square footage of each room and hallway, regardless of floor area covered by furniture, excepting only kitchens, bathrooms, closets, and entrance foyers".

That means regardless of whatever soundproofing you put UNDER your hardwood floors, you'll still need to *cover* the surface of those floors with "rugs, carpeting, or other noise-reducing material".

I guess it depends on the definition of floors. If the concrete can be considered the floors then you're golden ;)

gobri30 is correct.

aboutready and all other parents with asthma children: Here's an idea - keep your floors bare and learn to discipline your child. If the kid needs to run around and make excessive noise, take the kid to the park. There's plenty of them. If you have special needs, find a home where you don't have to break the rules to be comfortable. Do people who use wheelchairs live on a fifth-floor walkup? Just sayin'...

Or an even better idea -- from several families with asthmatic children whose homes I visited when I interviewed them -- VACUUM REGULARLY with a powerful vacuum with a good HEPA filter.

"I guess it depends on the definition of floors. If the concrete can be considered the floors then you're golden ;)"

Most co-ops would consider "floors" to be the finished hardwood. Meaning, you have to cover the finished product, regardless of any "soundproofing" you put under the hardwood (assuming the board even allowed THAT, given the problems that soundproofing and other insulation INSIDE the floor poses for heat distribution within many buildings).

You have the right to "Quiet enjoyment" of your unit. Excessive noise, of any kind, is in violation. With all respect to the owners above you and their child's medical condition -- they will have to comply, or face eventual action. They should have known that when they moved in. It may be time for them to consider buying a house, where they won't be subject to such complaints.

I bought a treadmill had it delivered last night...this am i used it for the first time and I received a note under my door from my downstairs neighbor wanting me to stop the treadmill immediately or else she would request the LL to force me to install carpet or dump the treadmill.

Thank g-d for building gyms.

Writing as a long time board member and former board president, the value of having rules like the 80% carpet rule is that they prevent the challenge (and an inevitably unfair result to someone) of having to negotiate every single situation on a case by case basis. Having reasonable common practices -- and the 80% floor covering is certainly a NYC common practice that most deem to be reasonable -- makes everything fairer for everyone, including a parent who think having a child trumps others' rights or interests, or a neighbor working the night shift who believes they have the right to a peaceful home 24/7 (showing my bias here).

In fact, my showing a bias makes the point: reasonable rules, developed on principle and not in reaction to a specific circumstance or incident, and which are consistently enforced (without bias) make it possible for the millions of us to live among one another. Making compromises that we may believe benefit others to our disadvantage is not for everyone. And that's why they invented suburbs.

Hi Julia,
I want to buy a treadmill. May I ask what brand got & where'd ya buy it?
Thanks!!

Incoveniencing others should be, in a normal society, a norm, a common decency.
Aboutready, do you we're all blessed that you're among us, but maybe even as such a self-infatuated being as you can try this concept: others don't have to give more shit about you or your child than you give about them. They might have a child who cannot stand noise.

OP, I know someone who told the noisy upstairs neighbor that he's sue the said neighbor PERSONALLY, i.e. no board or management involved. Worked like a charm, for what it's worth.

The building codes need to be strengthened with higher standards for soundproofing. They use the outdated STC measurements which are flawed and do not cover the frequencies that are used today (e.g. low frequencies) and not cover at all the IIC (impact noise) measurements.

I bought it at Models and it was pro-form 9.0zt

inquirer, i personally hate comments about grammar and the like, given that this is just an anonymous board and people are often posting in a state of high agitation, but your post could use an edit job.

would people please read? we are not noisy. i have never had a person complain about us or our daughter. it is the capriciousness and the general ineffectiveness of the 80% rule that is annoying. the 80% doesn't guarantee a lack of noise in the slightest, is only enforced randomly, and let's face it, 90% of people buying OR renting these days have ZERO intention of covering their hardwoods with 80% floor coverings. if in advance you knew that your neighbor would enforce the rule you'd likely not buy that apartment.

maybe we should all move to the suburbs if we want hardwood floors. that would be lovely for NYC housing values.

ar - unless you are ready for a multi year (fill in the blank crusade, jihad, class action, whatever) the rule is the rule. if you are ready and able for that, good luck, hope you've got the dinero - if you aren't - over:out on this topic, the allergies, asthma, carpets wool or not, noise or not, the grammar, love the treadmill aside tho. OP, check in when/if you get resolution

romary, again, PLEASE READ. i don't have an issue now. none. the issue i had was back in the day when my daughter was in a school and i was moving and the landlord told me the rule was capricious. it wound up being nothing, but it was stupid.

it's six years later. no issue. no more asthma. no issue.

and, i'd like to see someone tell someone in a multi-million dollar high-line unit that they need to cover their floors 80%. that should be fun.

The 80% Condo rule is fairly standard, applies to rentals, coops and condo, including the multi-million dollar variety. And as the the points NextEra made regarding the impartiality of this rule are great points. Agree 100%

"romary, again, PLEASE READ. i don't have an issue now. none"

Then why were you cursing everyone out in this thread? Here's just a sample of your diatribe:

"how the f did you take "a glimpse of their living room" without their consent?"
"how do you have a rats ass clue as to why they don't have floor coverings? "
"you're a tard. "
"btw, you're still a tard. no compassion."
"once again you're absolutely full of shit matt. absolutely. "
"maybe one day you'll have a kid with asthma. happy days!"
"do you get it now? your kid can be a fucking obnoxious loud nightmare "
"Matt, you are such an asshole. such an asshole."
"btw, you're a jerk of the highest order."
"good f'ng lord the assumptions here are crazy. maly, same for you."
"give me a f'ng break"
"and really. what an assholic thing to write"

yes, it actually applies to almost every unit in the city. how many people in the city want hardwoods without coverings?

jsmith, what does that have to do with the issue?

i obviously still think the rule isn't effective. do you have anything to offer that proves otherwise? and matt. well, you go jsmith. happy bedfellows.

Area rugs are fairly standard part of any living room or bedroom.

right. yes. people don't like their hardwoods any more. really.

This is not a debate regarding the effectiveness of carpet so much not honoring the rules stipulated in the rental agreement. This wink/nod the agent provided sounds like non-sense. From a legal perspective there's the written always has precedence to a wink or a nod. Plus there's the issue of respecting and showing consideration to one's neighbors.

Hard wood floors are beautiful. But they don't feel so good on the feet or when you lay down to watch TV or pet the dog. Surprised to hear you say that about hardwood floors. People spend thousands of dollars to do just that with nice Tibean, Persian and/or Afghan rugs...or cotton ones from Crate & Barrel.

i think it's a GREAT idea. let's make all owners put down carpeting. i don't care what you pay. 80% covering for you and all.

Here you go. They probably deliver to Peter Cooper as well

http://www.tufenkian.com/