new constr, wmburg....should i buy parking space for 30,000

nothing is worth buying in Williamsburg you will lose your money and wont be able to resell your apartment or parking space.

There is too much unbuilt capacity in Williamsburg. It is a horrible buy. Do not do it.

buyer, ignore the troll please. In my opinion, parking's a much better value than outdoor space, cabanas, storage, or most other similar spaces. If it's a condo, the parking space is separately deeded piece of property, so unless the condo board specifically prevents it (unusual, but you should check), you can rent it out to someone outside the building. I believe it would help with resale. $30 is perhaps a bit less than what spots in new condos have gone for in the area, but that largely depends on the location as well, and given that some developers have thrown in parking as a "free" concession, I imagine the value has dipped somewhat also. Still, if Bloomberg ever gets his congestion plan through, you can bet a private indoor spot next to a train station one stop from downtown Manhattan will be fairly desirable. Since you don't have a car, this makes it a bit trickier, especially since you'll pay a monthly fee, but if you can easily afford it and think you'll put it to good use, I don't think you'll regret it. Good luck.

i would! it's my personal fantasy. i really really want a parking spot. it's a good investment.

if you have the option, and can afford it, get it. i think its great to have if you want it. when it comes to resale, it is only worth something if your buyer wants it.

Buyer - BJW is one of those tools who bought in Williamsburg. His "advise" is a bunch of crap. He just wants to pump Willimaburg real estate so he can get out of his purchase.

Please note that he has admitted several times on these threads that "he didnt buy in Williamsburg as an investment" and "doesnt care if he cant get his money back"

Look it up. He has said these things but he will jump on this board and pump Williamsburg crap condos as good investments. They are not. There is decades of capacity for yet unbuilt units in Williamsburg.

Do you really think in 5 or 10 years that someone will buy your 5 or 10 year old unit when there will be hundreds of brand new units on the market?

buyerbuyer, what are the monthlies (common charges, taxes, anything else) on that spot?

Who controls cost-related decisions regarding the parking -- changes to security staffing levels and/or systems, periodic renovations, etc., and how are decisions made?

petrfritz, you just contradicted yourself. In another thread you were saying that rents will go up and asked me where were the zillion apts that were going to flood the market, but now you are pointing out that nobody will buy the hundreds of them that will be available in Williamsburg... forget about a 15% up in your properties in the next 2 years....

mimi - do you have any sort of reading comprehension? First off the other thread we were talking about Manhattan over the next few years. There has been no building in Manhattan for the past 3 years therefore there is a capacity gap brewing. Also Manhattan has most of its capacity capped or already maxed out. Understand?

This thread is about Williamsburg where there is an enormous amount of unbuilt capacity. So if you are buying now, you can definitely expect that in 5 or 10 years when you want to sell that there will be all sorts of new buildings going up all around you.

Have you been to Williamsburg? it is still a bunch of abondoned low rise crap buildings just waiting to be knocked down with 20 story crap condo units built all over the place. It is going to end up looking like the Hoboken or Jersey city in a few years.

petrfitz, redefining stupid, one Streeteasy post at a time.

do you notice that BJW cannot counter the argument against large amounts of unbuilt capacity? He can only sling slurs at me.

Go ahead and buy your crap condo in W'Burg but dont cry when you cant sell it or get your money back...

Well, if parking in a garage is $250/month (probably on the high end). It would take 10 yrs of parking to equal $30,000, not taking into account time value of money. So your breakeven point would be further out.

I guess if you're looking to live there for 13 years it may be worth it, but check out garage prices near by first.

"there has been no building in Manhattan for the past 3 years"...huh?
Where in Manhattan has there been no new building?

moxieland - are you aware of the amount of permits applied for and issued for new building in Manhattan?

Just asking in what area of Manhattan there is no new building? I see quite a few new buildings in all areas of manhattan on SE. Are you referring to a specific area?

its obvious that you dont understand development. Go learn about permits, building, normal development rates. Then come back and ask a better question.

petrfitz, it's not that I cannot, it's just that we've done this 100 times and you still make no sense, yet are adamant, so what's the point? You seem to think Williamsburg is an isolated real estate market with no bearing or influence on anything else here. If that's not enough to render you incredible, the fact that you own and invest in the LES, which is arguably as correlated to the Williamsburg market as any, yet still maintain this position, really pushes this into laugher territory. Your "unbuilt capacity" rants are completely ignorant of the fact that just as in Manhattan, there are zoning laws in Brooklyn which limit building height, usage, and so forth. And then when you look at all the enormous hotels in the LES and talk about "permits"? It's too much. You're utterly clueless and foam at the mouth when anyone dares question you. Go back to Curbed, Sneaky Pete.

Bjw you say I am utterly clueless but you are the one who bought a crappy glass condo in Willimasburg and says that you didnt do it as an investment and dont care if you make money on that one singel crapy unit.

I own several buildings, invest in my community, make money from rentals and oh yeah live and own where you would love to Manhattan.

Hmmm who should listen to you schill for Williamsburg or who should listen to me give them the truth on W Burg crap investments?????

Honestly, petr, have you come across anyone on this site who respects you? Most people seem to have the impression I do: that you're full of it. You pass judgment on an entire neighborhood, and act as if no one else understands real estate if they question you. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously? It's true that my home is not a real investment and I have no intention of selling it. So what? I'm only on this board to get a little knowledge from others (ie: not you), and offer my advice when I think it might be helpful. Nothing more, nor less. As for the tired Manhattan vs Brooklyn argument, I can only say that I much prefer where I am over the LES and most Manhattan neighborhoods. The one area I truly love is Nolita, but unfortunately never found anything suitable (in terms of size and price). Williamsburg is great, but I fully recognize that some people don't care for it. No problem. I'm glad you're one of them, as it keeps you out of my neighborhood! Stay away!

petrfitz, wow, you own several buildings and make your money from rentals? That explains your hostility.

For such an impressive landlord and investor you sure have the time/energy to come pontificate on a thread for an area you care nothing about. Price adjustments are here, Williamsburg is not Manhattan,. for god sakes say something NEW!

no Bobski I make some money from rentals. I make my money from starting and selling digital media companies.

Why are you hostile?

All I am doing is countering bad information that BJW continues to put out to protect his investment.

The truth is that Williamsburg is a horrible investment and anyone that understands RE it is very obvious.

Even BJW "It's true that my home is not a real investment and I have no intention of selling it."

Why would he say that if he thought that he could make a good return?????

"Why would he say that if he thought that he could make a good return?????"

Because I love my home and don't want to move. And even when I will want to, I would make more renting the place than my monthly costs. Novel concepts for you, I know.

"All I am doing is countering bad information that BJW continues to put out"

It would take a legion of posters to counter yours.

Let's get back to the topic. I think 30k is quite expensive. What's the monthly rent in a garage? At most $250/per month in Williamsburg, I think 25k is more standard.

Now I saw developers asking for 55k or even 75k, that's ridiculous. It's like raising the parking space price and give you a discount. So you can't negotiate much on your condo.

And back to my earlier question, what do you keep paying after "buying" the parking space, and who controls increases to that amount?

perfitz - really, you have no idea what you are saying? where's your evidence? you are spouting nonsense!

the demand for living in WB is high - rental properties come on line and are gone almost immediately.
there are tons of restaurants that are recognized nationally (moto, dressler, motorino have major national magazine press) and internationally (michelin put 8 WB restaurants on their best values in New York list - plus 2 restaurants have stars). great music venues, (biggest neighborhood in the WORLD! for musicians - 75 rehearsal spaces and major guitar shops), galleries, shops (sophisticated and interesting stores selling everything from original designed jewelry, clothes and shoes to special wine shops and the fab marlow and daughters butcher), great hair salons (Deluxe - check out city search reviews on this place - very special, woodley and bunny, beehive, etc..), great yoga - greenhouse now has 3 studios, 2 massage studios and a retail store, and tons more of all opening constantly. plus, we have Brooklyn Bowl - bowling, drinks, food by Blue Ribbon and live music! the place defines WB - amazing construction - all reclaimed materials and looks great. we have tons of greatness, but using that as an example of a place that i don't think could open anywhere else.

WB is also wonderful place to raise a child. we have the best friends - a kind, welcoming and caring, non-competitive group of families (see the yahoo group: Brooklynbabyhui), wonderful school, excellent after school and weekend classes and great stores and other resources like the huge WB library. many of the condo buyers like ourselves are raising families, and making a long term commitment to the area. how do you know anything! anything! about this? i have lived here for years and have many many friends that own properties and are raising families (dozens and dozens). do you know a soul that owns in WB?

i have a 20 minute subway commute or a 12 minute ride home in a car service, and i can also WALK home! wonderful.

i plan on living in WB for the long haul, and don't care about current speculation, but your version is RIDICULOUS! how can tons more people move to an area and the area get worse??? remove what ever is stuck up your a** and worry about something else please.

wisco I never said tons more people will move there. I said tons more inventory will be built there. Big difference.

Also dont kid yourself. All the same things you said about williamsburg can be said for Jersey City

Wisco - I dont have anything against the vide of Williamsburg. I actually enjoy it. But the vibe is completely different than the fact that there is a SHIT TON of unbuilt capacity that will be bringing new units on the market for decades. Get it? Too much supply...

alanhart,

you pay extra common charges on it and you don't have control on the common charges. It's determined by the condo board.

Stop feeding the troll.

SeaHawk, agreed. And $250/mo sounds a bit high but about right for a parking space, depending on exact location.

alanhart, the condo board would almost certainly control any shifts in maintenance costs for parking. I believe most of that goes to operating the garage door. Some buildings have temp control in the garage, which to me is a pretty huge waste of money (and is actually illegal in Switzerland) - that's something I would look to appeal to the condo board about down the road if you do go through with the purchase.

TRoll?? I am being honest and youare trying to pump up a crap investment.

> i really really want a parking spot. it's a good investment.

Really, really wanting something doesn't usually make it a good investment. Though it usually indicates something that isn't (but is shiny and new).

and all the things you say about bburg have been said about the LES

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/email/crd_newsletter10-08.html

I park regularly in Williamsburg. On the street. With my cute Mini Cooper. FOR FREE. I have never had trouble finding a space in Williamsburg, in fact it's a 'hood where I ditch the car if I must and subway to somewhere else.

At least, buyer buyer, find out how much rent the owners are getting for their parking spaces. If you can't find out that, find out what the parking garages charge and how full/empty they are.

Don't let that windfall burn a hole in your pocket or you will regret it.

{Manhattan real estate agent.}

Is the space indoor? If not, what do the common charges cover? Other issues to consider is security, and access to street parking, parking garage rates, and as stated what rent is being charged on them now. To value it, you really need to get comps on parking at the location and nearby.

There should be an offering plan that outlines parking restriction in terms of your rights to lease to others. I would think with security access concerns and insurance however, I would think it is unlikely you can rent to anyone outside the building.

going to live there?
buy the space!
you will never be sorry (about the space) Billyburg...that's another story

Living in Williamsburg is never having to say your sorry............about personal hygine. (nuck-nuck)

Hey Guys, I really enjoy reading your discussion (most parts of it).

my question is: All things that were said about WB are known facts. Great area, minutes from Manhattan, restaurants, bars, shops, nice folks, hipsters too, cheaper prices, good for young couples with kids, etc. At the same time there are tens of unsold projects, some went bankrupt. Once the economy starts picking up, prices will go up, units will be sold, but new developments will arise. so supply will dictate prices, not demand. HOWEVER, there are two unique projects in the area which do not resemble anything else in the same area: The Edge and Northside Piers. Now you all know why they are unique and why they will always have their uniqueness and value. They are on the water. They are real high rises. They have the craziest amenities. They have great views (some apartments). So there is not much supply of that. It is a totally different animal than the other buildings.

I know that closing prices are 10%-15% below current prices, isn't that a good time to buy? I mean there are one bedrooms there ranging from $400K-$600K. Those are the prices of studios in Wall Street, and who wants to live there? Considering the fact that any one bedroom like that could be rented out for $2000-$2500, and hoping that prices will rise, isn't that a good deal?

I will also live in the apartment in the next few years, so I won't have to rent it out anytime soon.

what do you guys think?

I'm not sure everyone would agree with your opinion on the value of the water front high rise. I'm not sure why you think they are so unique. Many other bldgs have great views and many ammenities.

I must say, though, that the Manhattan views from Williamsburgh are butt-ugly. Fugly, as the kids used to say.

alanhart,

You're a trip.

falcogold,

I agree with you.

I'm a bit concerned about the commute from Williamsburg. I hear that the L train is already overcrowded. How will the area handle more development?

WBfirsttime, I wouldn't put either of the waterfront towers in their own class. They are a fairly distinct product, but I don't think there are enough buyers who would look exclusively at those two buildings without at least considering others nearby. Especially since there are other waterfront options.

williamsbuyer, the L is crowded, especially at Bedford and Lorimer, but it's manageable for the time being (IMHO, it was worse commuting on the 456 when I lived on the UES). You're right to be concerned about the strains so many new residents will put on the system though. I will say the MTA has responded really well to the influx that's already made its way here, with more frequent trains and more reliable service. They'll have to get even more creative eventually.

wow - such haters! the view from WB to manhattan is bad? WTF! that takes the cake. We have a roof deck directly east of the piers and edge, and the view is amazing. how about the view of all the bridges looking south? spectacular.

re transport - i use the L and the JMZ and the G and the B62 (was 61) i find all to be fine. there are way worse lines in manhattan - i'm looking at you #6!

it depends on where you work - if you work downtown, take the JMZ - get a bit of a walk in (i do this everyday for the exercise) and then there's 3 trains that come quick - you can always get a seat, and you don't have to transfer. i would urge all people working downtown to do this. i don't seem to ever have an issue with the for some reason, but i tend to use it after 9:30.

on the "overbuilt" aspect - that's crazy! it's the city. jeez. it's supposed to be dense. everything can and will be built and will be filled with owners and renters which will make the hood more desirable and make values rise as more and more people beyond the creative class consider buying there. i see the yuppies and finance guys eventually considering the area and driving up prices (they do not now for the most part). most owners i know don't wear suits to work, and some have jobs outside what people would consider traditional work.

i do park on the street too, and it's great for now, but i see it ending with all the additional people coming. buy the spot! i lived in the west part of park slope when it was "easy" to park. 5 years later you couldn't park on my street ever.

How about the view looking directly out (without averting your eyes by looking south) of the largest string of housing projects I've ever seen? Spectacular.

alan, it's true, the LES is unsightly. The view is much wider than that, fortunately.

I'm with you, WBfirsttime. I would absolutely say that the waterfront towers are in their own class. Some of us love highrises, for the views and for being so far above the street that noise is a non-issue. Add in the waterfront factor (which is awesome), and it's a great fit. For me. I have no idea how many other people who are drawn to WB will be the highrise type. But for those that are, there's no other options in WB that come close to NSP and the Edge.

Yeah the high end water front lux high rises.....if there is one peice of advice that you hear over and over and over again it is that you should always own the most expensive property in the neighborhood.....

Petrfitz -- I wish I had the money to even entertain buying the most expensive property in the neighborhood. Luckily for me NSP drastically cut their prices last year (or haven't you heard?) which enabled me to buy something there for less than other developments nearby in the neighborhood. And again, I get to live in my high floor highrise apartment which, for me, sealed the deal.

But thanks for your advice.

cheeseburger, what unit is your building? Are you facing the river? If you are, the eventually they will build another building in front of building no.1.

Your price has already reflected that.

I do not have one of those units that will be affected by Tower 3.

I love how these threads start with a question like what's fair price for parking in WB and then wind its merry (and not so merry) way to the nice (and not so nice) views of Manhattan from the exclusive (and not so exclusive) waterfront apartment towers. At this point, I feel like a schizophrenic expert on WB :-P

buyerbuyer -- if you're still following along, I'm in contract in WB and negotiated an indoor deeded parking spot for $20k. I would have paid the full asking price of $25k. I think it's definitely worth it if you plan to have a decent vehicle and wish to keep it that way. Also, it appears (according to some on this board) that there's an infinite number of apartments in WB or on its way, but there's a finite amount of off-street parking. Good luck!

peccavis, could you please tell me which condo that only offers 25k parking?

peccavis, what's the monthly CC/tax on that spot?

For fear that I could be violating the fine print in my contract, I will only say that it's on N 5th between Kent and Bedford (and the building is not green).

I'm sure some people have also negotiated a free spot for a higher-end unit. I recall 268 Wythe had a limited offer to include parking for certain units, but that was a while ago.

alanhart -- I don't recall the exact amounts of CC/tax but it was negligible. I want to say the equivalent of a 6-pack of beer, but I will look it up tonight and confirm if I'm talking Schlitz or Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA.

My spot runs ~80/month, FWIW. Not sure about other buildings.

"The Edge and Northside Piers. Now you all know why they are unique and why they will always have their uniqueness and value. They are on the water. They are real high rises. They have the craziest amenities. They have great views (some apartments). So there is not much supply of that. It is a totally different animal than the other buildings."

true, wbft. Good post.

But, one has to factor whether there will be demand for that too. Limited supply (althought they are NOT small, we're not really talking about real limitation)... but are there enough people who want to pay top dollar and not live in Manhattan? And at those prices?

Time will tell...

i cant believe i agree with somewhereelse but he is right buying in those lux W burg condos reminds me of 16 Candles being "Kinda like the king of the dipshits. "

petrfitz, unfortunately for you, there are many ranks below king.

If the parking space carrying cost is $10-20/month with 30k buyin, take it.
Easy to rent out and when you decide to sell the condo, it can be a deal pusher.

BTW, my 2br/2bath condo rent nets triple the amount of petrfitz's entire RE portfolio combined.

Somewhereelse -- For what it's worth, most of my neighbors have already lived in Manhattan, and paid Manahattan prices (myself included). By comparison (and we're comparing NEW Manhattan construction with NEW Williamsburg construction), we're now paying less in WB and getting more (space, views, amenities etc). I don't think of NSP as being "top dollar." Honestly, it was significantly less than anything remotely similar in Manhattan.

yes but BJW you are the court jester....

cheeseburger, it's an important distinction to make. Comparing like-to-like can be tough since much of Williamsburg volume is new relative to what's in many Manhattan neighborhoods (and other Brooklyn neighborhoods for that matter). On the extreme end of the spectrum you've got Dumbo, which I believe is nearly all conversions or new construction.

petr's fits, maybe, but I shiver at what that makes someone living on Pitt St...

cheeseburger, that's why you are living in WB. The product from Manhattan and that from WB is entirely different. That's why the price is different.

If you are paying for lower than 650 / sqfeet in NSP, I think you are just paying the right price. The (cost of carry)/ living in that building is just too big.

Those who paid more than that are going to suffer in the next 10 years.

cheeseburger, that's why you are living in WB. The product from Manhattan and that from WB is entirely different. That's why the price is different.

If you are paying for lower than 650 / sqfeet in NSP, I think you are just paying the right price. The (cost of carry)/ living in that building is just too big.

Those who paid more than that are going to suffer in the next 10 years.

> Honestly, it was significantly less than anything remotely similar in Manhattan.

Right, but time will tell what the proper discount is. If its 30% less now, maybe it goes to 60% less. Or 5% less.

Its going to be cheaper, question is how much cheaper...

Wow... Thanks guys for everything. I am still thinking of buying in WB. to tell you the truth I don't mind living in any of the other new buildings (125 North 10th for example), but my parents want to buy the most exclusive in the area since it is really in a class of its own (in WB), and since it is less expensive than the city (and in my opinion, better than living in wall street for example)

about the prices - if a young couple wants to move to the city but they are limited in their budget, and can only get a studio, why not go for a large one bedroom in one of those two projects? If the other condos in the area attract the yuppie crowd, why would some yuppies come to live in those crazy towers? enjoy the nice pools and gyms right on the water? the retail space just for those two projects? the city views? the water taxi which will be there in a few years (anybody know when?) and will take you to the city in just a few minutes (anybody know how much it will cost or how long the ride will take)

now to the numbers: If I can buy an apartment for $500 per sq ft in one of those buildings (trying to bring in a few more buyers and get a "group discount", do you guys think it's worth it?

$500 per square foot would be a STEAL. Contrary to popular opinion the sky is NOT falling anytime soon. Online rants are a dime a dozen. I'm not saying all of the things they are saying are wrong, but all of them aren't right either. It's rosier that the crazies want to believe.

I agree with blogo. And $500/sqft will probably only get you the ground floor unit with strangers peering into your living room and a windowless basement for your bedroom (which I'm sure is perfect for some people). Or wait for a fire sale like W11.

I've looked for 7 months in WB and put in 4 offers in 4 different buidlings trying to get the best price. Nobody took me seriously for anything below $600 sq/ft in North WB and in one case the sponser didn't even bother countering my offer. But I've been in contract since September and things may have changed a little. Good luck!

What do people normally pay for buying parking space in wmburg?....what do they pay in manhattan to buy?....

trying to get this thread back to the basic question

gabump gabump

OK. I've heard anywhere from 20K to 75K (Really ... over at IKON. And it's outdoors! I told the broker that was completely ridiculous and left.) I know it's a broad range, but realistically I'd say you're looking at anywhere from 20K to 35k. If you're buying in a building that has them, try to get them to throw it in as an incentive. Or at least negotiate a discount.