Open kitchen vs. storage space! help please!

i think it depends on how many cabinets you already have. If getting rid of them still leaves you with ok storage, and gives you the nice look, I'm all for it. But if it leaves you with no storage...

Also, could you maybe get a pantry or something else in instead?

And one of those overhead pot racks, could you get stuff like that in?

A home is primarily for consumption: don't ever forget that. Given that you're thinking of knocking down a wall, I assume that you've recently bought and are planning on being there for a decade, right? Do what will make you enjoy your consumption. You're probably talking about something that takes $10K to reverse if need be. Say you live in a place that would rent for $3000 a month. A decade of rent (which is what you're paying for the consumption value of your home) is $360K, and you're sweating over $10K at most, assuming others won't like it.

FTR, I'd prefer open.

Other than never having heard of cabinet-counting, I can't speak to perceptions at resale time, but generally speaking you can get way more storage out of a well-chosen Ikea or other cabinet system than you do from the stock cabinets that you probably have now ... including wall cabinets that go all the way to the ceiling, and pullouts of all kinds that maximize your useable (rather than dead) storage.

What I did was add 12" deep base cabinets to the living room side of the open part, giving me a nice 36" (or 38" or whatever with overhang) deep countertop. Specifically, I added the 12" deep base cabinets only to the left and right extremes, giving me space for 2-3 barstools that face into the kitchen. But that part isn't necessary, and compromises your storage a bit.

As for open kitchens, aside from trends across decades and generations, they're a love-em-or-hate-em proposition.

inonada, good points... though, if they're buying, figure the cost would be more than renting... ;-)

inonada, caught that.

i agree with ah's suggestion. you can add a row of 12" deep base cabinets facing outward. lots of lovely storage options these days.

Err -- I just saw you stated a 2BR, so make that more like $500K+ of consumption if it's in Manhattan.

It's like saying "I really want a Porsche Boxter, but I think a Lexus may have better resale value in 8 years". Really? You're buying a $50K on a car, and you're sweating whether you can sell it for $18K vs. $20K in 8 years? I.e., you'd make the decision based on spending $32K vs. $30K, and even then, just maybe there'll be a price difference.

AR, didn't mean to refer to you, but I think I know what you're talking about.

On somewhereelse's point, I didn't want to get into that because that starts bringing in the investment value of the purchase, which may be positive or negative depending on your viewpoint. We can, however, all agree on the magnitude of the consumption value.

I.e., I think coogie should focus on the fact that he/she is consuming mainly, not investing.

Speaking of cars, a story about the first time I ever went into a dealership to see / test-drive a car. I'm young, get the high-pressure sales pitch, picture of salesperson's family prominently displayed on table, manager comes in to co-work me 'cause I'm showing resistance to buying right then-and-there. Anyways, at some point, they're trying to see if I want to pay $300 or $500 for a spoiler on a $15K car. I'm like pretty flatly "No", like what's a spoiler going to do for some a $15K car back when $300 or $500 made a difference to me. Manager turns to salesperson, says "Well, obviously Mr. XXX doesn't appreciate the investment value of a spoiler". Ah yes, I don't care to spend on the stupid thing, but I should consider it because in 10 years someone's going to look at the car and say "Oh, I was going to pay $5000 for it, but now that I see it has a spoiler, I'll pay $6000".

Coogie, you should get a spoiler for your kitchen -- great investment ;).

sounds like a broker... ;-)

Thanks all for your input. The building opened in 2002 but its been rented out since then and now that I am moving in with my husband we are doing some renovations to make it "new" again. Certainly since its only 8 yrs old it is still in very good shape but we'll be doing some face lift type work (i.e., tiling the bathrooms, new sinks/toilets, staining floors, moldings). I am a big fan of open space so to me I think that opening the wall above the sink in the galley kitchen, extending the countertop into the living and putting bar stools there would be really nice. However, the apartment is a family investment obviously and I didnt want to do anything to decrease value for when the time comes to sell in around 5 years maybe.

Oops, "opening the wall above the sink in the galley kitchen" suggests there's a plumbing stack in that wall between living room and kitchen, so you may be able to open it up either not at all or incompletely.

If the sink is on the living room side of your kitchen, you're very lucky ... or the architect anticipated that many people will want to open up the kitchen.

... unless, of course, the plumbing risers are in that wall!!!

omg no more open kitchens!!!

stop the madness!!!!!

yes the sink is on the living room side of the kitchen and believe it or not the plumbing is in a riser off to the side so we can completely open it and just leave two tiny walls (one on each side) of the long counter for the plumbing. picture it like this: |__________| in the middle of the long strip is the sink and that looks out to the dining room (im no artist but hopefully that diagram is a bit helpful). the plumbing stuff is in those two tiny walls on each side. So, really it will be very open to the living room. not sure if this is easy to follow!!!

coogie, NYCMatt is an excellent resource for determining what the right answer is.

ah, you're needed on the cost of owning thread.

coogie, the plumbing is in BOTH sides? Like supply in one, and waste in the other?

A lot of new construction has only 1/3 to 1/2 of the wall open, leaving counterspace for messy stuff that you don't want seen from the LR/DR. Done right, it still gives an open feel, makes both rooms look larger, and allows for communication and eye contact between the two rooms.

one side is plumbing and one side is electrical stuff apparently....so they say.

cost of owning thread is boring

I just started interviewing contractors for estimates on this - lets see if it is even in the budget!!

"omg no more open kitchens!!!

stop the madness!!!!!"

sorry, but I just hate those kitchens that feel like you are trapped in a little cell.

They aren't for servants anymore. When I entertain, I'm talking to guests as I prep stuff.

Why would you even want to get rid of the counter space?

we are not getting rid of any counter space. we are actually extending the counterspace into the living room and plan on putting bar stools there so people can sit and eat at the counter (which can not be done now with the closed kitchen). the only thing we are getting rid of are four cabinets that are currently hanging from the ceiling since we want to remove the wall against which those cabinets lean against.

Ugh.

There is nothing worse than extending a kitchen into a living room.

It's like you're "living" with your appliances.

Ghetto!

Matt has very strong opinions about your space. many people, including me, love an open kitchen. do what works for you and your lifestyle.

If it turns out not to have been a good idea, you can always put up shutters, sitcom-style.

Thanks all. I'm glad to see it is all based on "opinion" and there wont be a real implication on re-sale value. Thanks again.

To which appliances do refer, Matt?

These? ...

-- Antique mantle clock (Art Deco era). Appraised at $6500.00

-- 25 inch color television set. A comparable set today would be at least $500.00

-- Two vintage Advent loudspeakers. $500 for the pair.

-- Vintage Kenwood amplifier and tuner. If I'm lucky enough to find a pair on eBay, they'd probably price in the $650 range for both.

-- Vintage Garrard turntable -- the nearly impossible to find 40 MKII transcription model. Priceless, but a similar one would cost around $350.00

-- Yamaha multi-disk CD player. $350.00

-- Vintage Kenwood tape deck. $350.00

-- Panasonic DVD player. $150.00

-- Toshiba VCR. $100.00

-- Time Warner Cable Box and modem. $200 to replace.

-- IBM Selectric III typewriter, in perfect working condition: $1000.00

-- Art Deco lamp: $225.00

Alan, please stop stalking me.

There are additional options to compensate for the lost cabinetry.
1. Overhang cabinets above the new island. (unless you have high ceilings this is not the best option)
2. Reducing the counter space by 2' and adding a pantry
3. Adding 12" deep cabinets on the living room side under the new island counter.

I think overhead cabinets defeat the main purpose of opening up the kitchen: Making both rooms look bigger, and improving communication between the spaces. Better with higher ceilings, but you still compromise the big open feeling (perception is informed by the big uninterrupted void of the ceiling, much more than the busier floor).

But if I were to go that route, I'd want a trick from Cali mid-century modern called the "floating coffin". In a quickie websearch, I wasn't able to find an image ... but they're basically overhead cabs suspended from the ceiling (often a tilty vaulted ceiling) by long rods.

"I think overhead cabinets defeat the main purpose of opening up the kitchen: Making both rooms look bigger, and improving communication between the spaces. Better with higher ceilings, but you still compromise the big open feeling (perception is informed by the big uninterrupted void of the ceiling, much more than the busier floor)."

Actually, that depends on the size of the rooms and the layout.

In my building, at least two tenants have blown open their kitchens to the living room, only to find that it now actually makes both rooms look SMALLER.

You'd think that wouldn't be the case. I didn't, either, until I saw for myself. They were right. Actually makes the space look smaller. One of them has since restored the walls to the original floorplan.

I had a galley kitchen and I thought that by opening it up I would lose storage space. It turns out that the cabinets I installed made use of space so much better than the ones I had that I actually wound up with more space. I also got a narrower and taller fridge (liebherr, which is great) and that gave me some more space also.

I'm very happy and my apt is worth more as a sale and a rental.

I do a lot of cooking and just moved into an apt with the kitchen/lr combo. While you can talk to guests while you cook, you also can't hide the dirty glasses etc that accumulate. Also it's absolutely imperative that an open kitchen have good venting to the outside! Otherwise your whole living room will smell of cooking all the time! Venting up into the cabinets or blowing it all back into the room are a waste of time. It's gotta go OUT!

All those original floorplans getting butchered. So sad.

Keep your dishwashers out of your living rooms, kids. In six years you'll be glad you did.

And keep your maids in your maids' rooms.

I'm thinking of knocking down the wall between my bathroom and the living room. I think it will make both rooms seem bigger and will facilitate conversation while I'm in the tub. Will this affect -- oh, never mind.

Boss_Tweed, some trendy hotels have located the soaking tub right smack in the bedroom (but not in the kitchen, as in NY tenements in the Village, etc. ... that would be tacky). Also, I've seen a fish tank mounted in the living room, also visible by opening the medicine cabinet in the bathroom. And then there's cell block chic.

You can open up the space and place cabinets in the bottom of the island between the K/DR.

Alanhart -- in my perfect world I'd have a beautiful claw-foot soaking tub in my very large bedroom, with sunlight streaming through the windows and....

There's an (un-trendy) B&B in Montreal with rooms like that, and it's gorgeous.

"When I entertain, I'm talking to guests as I prep stuff."

Can't you just manage your time better and do all that before they arrive?

any update from coogie? or from inonada on the resale value of his car without a spoiler?