Property Mgr (Broker licensee) ran off with tenant's rent $ -- civil? Criminal?
Started by Fluter
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 372
Member since: Apr 2009
Discussion about
Not sure how to proceed, so I'm hoping someone here has some advice! I am a landlord, as well as a real estate agent. My former property manager, who is licensed as a real estate broker, told me in December my tenants in a multi-family property were no longer paying rent. In actuality, she took money for their rent for December and January from the Dept of Social Services, as well as probably some... [more]
Not sure how to proceed, so I'm hoping someone here has some advice!
I am a landlord, as well as a real estate agent.
My former property manager, who is licensed as a real estate broker, told me in December my tenants in a multi-family property were no longer paying rent. In actuality, she took money for their rent for December and January from the Dept of Social Services, as well as probably some cash directly from the tenants, and then stopped responding to calls, emails, text messages and a certified letter from me. And of course I got none of this rent money.
My new property manager got confirmation of all this yesterday from DSS. We have lots of paper to prove this. The new property manager has officially informed the Dept of Social Services.
Fortunately, we did not start eviction on the tenants, who have done nothing whatsoever wrong, based on what we know now.
I know I need to report the broker to the Dept of State so she can be investigated and possibly lose her real estate license.
But, I don't know what else I should do. Should I ask my lawyer to go after her? Should I file a police report? The loss is too much for small claims court.
Thanks to everyone with ideas ~
[less]
Response by truthskr10
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 4088
Member since: Jul 2009
You should definitely file a police report.
Let the DA do the legal work against this person and should this person have any assets(unlikely) the DA will have done most of the billable hours your lawyer would have charged.
I am not an attorney and Im sure others will give even better advise.
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Response by ab_11218
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 2017
Member since: May 2009
Police report for sure. Depending on the amount, the cops can go after her much faster.
I would investigate with DoS to see if her license was transferred somewhere recently. Maybe you can find her that way or at least get her fired.
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Response by maly
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 1377
Member since: Jan 2009
Both! Report to the police, follow up with the DA once one is assigned. Have your lawyer file a civil suit because once your property manager is found guilty in a criminal court, all that's left to decide in the civil arena is the penalty.
You should really talk to a lawyer to determine the cost vs. the likelihood to recover funds. Was this person part of a larger organization ( with liabilty insurance)? Do you have a contract?
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Response by memito
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 294
Member since: Nov 2007
Why would someone think they could get away with this? Unless they have left the country....
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Response by SDFL
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 8
Member since: Dec 2009
Do we have the full story? All I see is one side of it and sometimes the first side is wrong.
Just sayin..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
frownstoner.com
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Response by truthskr10
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 4088
Member since: Jul 2009
SDFL
How much more of the story do you need?
The alternative is Fluter pretended to be her manager, took the money, and buried the manager in staten island?
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Response by Fluter
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 372
Member since: Apr 2009
Hi, thanks everyone. Thanks SDFL, good point, but things are looking pretty clear, since we have independent verification via the DSS.
I brought two properties listed by this broker, including this one, so I know her, and this is just kinda shocking. She was associated with a particular firm but all of a sudden she disappeared on their website, I noticed in December. I called the owner of the firm (head broker) but received no response to my message. At that time I let it go, because I believed her when she said she wasn't getting any rent money--I mean, this is not unusual.
It could have been worse. We had no reason to suspect she was lying, so we were preparing to evict the tenants. That would have been an expensive mess, inconvenience and scary for the tenants. A big lesson I learned from this is--always get the tenants' story before evicting anyone.
She may think she can get away with it because it's expensive to go to court and all that other stuff, and so she figures property owners will just let it go. She may be so desperate her judgment is clouded. It's important that we don't let it go, however.
She may also have been very sick, or had some other personal problem, or it could be drugs. Her business partner has been collecting the money with his vendor number, there could be a riff there.
I have a written property management agreement but she did not sign it, I realized belatedly. Since I knew her, had bought property through her, I didn't worry too much. But we have email correspondence.
Thanks again to everyone who replied. Thanks especially to maly for the info, I did not know this. I have no experience at all in criminal court, and know very little about civil court. Been lucky I guess! ;)
Will get my lawyer on the phone, the DSS, police and DoS today.
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Response by dwell
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 2341
Member since: Jul 2008
Fluter,
So sorry to hear about this. Maybe also file a complaint with NYCS attorney General to have he RE license pulled.
Could you please reveal her name &/or firm, so that others can avoid both?
Thanks & good luck
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Response by dwell
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 2341
Member since: Jul 2008
meant NYS Attorney General, Dept of Licensing
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Response by alanhart
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Fluter, sorry this happened to you!
But one thing jumped out in your posts, and I want to comment on that:
Thank you for having the empathy to see this through the (presumably low-income) tenant's eyes (what happened and what could have happened). Too many real estate investors do their pro-formas and expect reality to reflect those numbers; when they don't, it's the evil tenants who are always to blame. And, on the other hand, I understand why a landlord, after dealing with too many non-payers and late-payers, would generalize that across all of his/her tenants ... so kudos for not doing so!
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Response by patient10
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 10
Member since: Jan 2010
1. Economy stinks so you can't sell RE.
2. Try to manage properties.
3. Can't support crack habit.
4. To fat to turn tricks.
5. Steal money from tenant and property owner.
6. Hide.
7. Wait for economy to recover.
8. Repeat
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Response by babsie02
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 139
Member since: Mar 2008
Check with your insurance agent. You should have a fidelity policy which would insure you against your employee/agent dishonesty.
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Response by SDFL
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 8
Member since: Dec 2009
Well let me ask this question?
When the Managing Agent Deposits the Rent do you check the Bank account? What was the time lapse from rent payment to deposit? Did you or the Agent receive any money for the tenants? What type of Program this is and do you live in New York.
I thought Dept of Social Services wires the money into your account!
"It could have been worse. We had no reason to suspect she was lying, so we were preparing to evict the tenants. That would have been an expensive mess, inconvenience and scary for the tenants. A big lesson I learned from this is--always get the tenants' story before evicting anyone."
Yeah...
And people believe the Mutant Asset Bubble will get better.....
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
frownstoner.com
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Response by looking2return
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 182
Member since: Jan 2009
Fluter,
How many apartments do you have that you can't collect the rent yourself?
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Response by Fluter
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 372
Member since: Apr 2009
Thanks again for amazing good commentary....babsie02 and dwell, and thank you for commiserating. alanhart, I hope other landlords get this message. I am all about taking good care of my tenants and I make sure property managers understand this. My tenants have my email address and instructions to contact me directly if they ever have problems with management.
This property manager has an associate broker's license, so she can work independently, without a firm. Agents cannot do this. Firm and she parted company about November.
When I emailed her I was filing police report, she said she was wiring/ACH me some funds owed. It's not the whole amount, she said she had repairs but I have no bills and no details so I don't know if this is true, or not, without a site inspection.
But definitely am going to file complaints regarding her license. We real estate agents/brokers are licensed to *protect the public*.
Thanks again, everybody. It'll all be fine with the new property managers in place.
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You should definitely file a police report.
Let the DA do the legal work against this person and should this person have any assets(unlikely) the DA will have done most of the billable hours your lawyer would have charged.
I am not an attorney and Im sure others will give even better advise.
Police report for sure. Depending on the amount, the cops can go after her much faster.
I would investigate with DoS to see if her license was transferred somewhere recently. Maybe you can find her that way or at least get her fired.
Both! Report to the police, follow up with the DA once one is assigned. Have your lawyer file a civil suit because once your property manager is found guilty in a criminal court, all that's left to decide in the civil arena is the penalty.
You should really talk to a lawyer to determine the cost vs. the likelihood to recover funds. Was this person part of a larger organization ( with liabilty insurance)? Do you have a contract?
Why would someone think they could get away with this? Unless they have left the country....
Do we have the full story? All I see is one side of it and sometimes the first side is wrong.
Just sayin..
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
frownstoner.com
SDFL
How much more of the story do you need?
The alternative is Fluter pretended to be her manager, took the money, and buried the manager in staten island?
Hi, thanks everyone. Thanks SDFL, good point, but things are looking pretty clear, since we have independent verification via the DSS.
I brought two properties listed by this broker, including this one, so I know her, and this is just kinda shocking. She was associated with a particular firm but all of a sudden she disappeared on their website, I noticed in December. I called the owner of the firm (head broker) but received no response to my message. At that time I let it go, because I believed her when she said she wasn't getting any rent money--I mean, this is not unusual.
It could have been worse. We had no reason to suspect she was lying, so we were preparing to evict the tenants. That would have been an expensive mess, inconvenience and scary for the tenants. A big lesson I learned from this is--always get the tenants' story before evicting anyone.
She may think she can get away with it because it's expensive to go to court and all that other stuff, and so she figures property owners will just let it go. She may be so desperate her judgment is clouded. It's important that we don't let it go, however.
She may also have been very sick, or had some other personal problem, or it could be drugs. Her business partner has been collecting the money with his vendor number, there could be a riff there.
I have a written property management agreement but she did not sign it, I realized belatedly. Since I knew her, had bought property through her, I didn't worry too much. But we have email correspondence.
Thanks again to everyone who replied. Thanks especially to maly for the info, I did not know this. I have no experience at all in criminal court, and know very little about civil court. Been lucky I guess! ;)
Will get my lawyer on the phone, the DSS, police and DoS today.
Fluter,
So sorry to hear about this. Maybe also file a complaint with NYCS attorney General to have he RE license pulled.
Could you please reveal her name &/or firm, so that others can avoid both?
Thanks & good luck
meant NYS Attorney General, Dept of Licensing
Fluter, sorry this happened to you!
But one thing jumped out in your posts, and I want to comment on that:
Thank you for having the empathy to see this through the (presumably low-income) tenant's eyes (what happened and what could have happened). Too many real estate investors do their pro-formas and expect reality to reflect those numbers; when they don't, it's the evil tenants who are always to blame. And, on the other hand, I understand why a landlord, after dealing with too many non-payers and late-payers, would generalize that across all of his/her tenants ... so kudos for not doing so!
1. Economy stinks so you can't sell RE.
2. Try to manage properties.
3. Can't support crack habit.
4. To fat to turn tricks.
5. Steal money from tenant and property owner.
6. Hide.
7. Wait for economy to recover.
8. Repeat
Check with your insurance agent. You should have a fidelity policy which would insure you against your employee/agent dishonesty.
Well let me ask this question?
When the Managing Agent Deposits the Rent do you check the Bank account? What was the time lapse from rent payment to deposit? Did you or the Agent receive any money for the tenants? What type of Program this is and do you live in New York.
I thought Dept of Social Services wires the money into your account!
"It could have been worse. We had no reason to suspect she was lying, so we were preparing to evict the tenants. That would have been an expensive mess, inconvenience and scary for the tenants. A big lesson I learned from this is--always get the tenants' story before evicting anyone."
Yeah...
And people believe the Mutant Asset Bubble will get better.....
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
frownstoner.com
Fluter,
How many apartments do you have that you can't collect the rent yourself?
Thanks again for amazing good commentary....babsie02 and dwell, and thank you for commiserating. alanhart, I hope other landlords get this message. I am all about taking good care of my tenants and I make sure property managers understand this. My tenants have my email address and instructions to contact me directly if they ever have problems with management.
This property manager has an associate broker's license, so she can work independently, without a firm. Agents cannot do this. Firm and she parted company about November.
When I emailed her I was filing police report, she said she was wiring/ACH me some funds owed. It's not the whole amount, she said she had repairs but I have no bills and no details so I don't know if this is true, or not, without a site inspection.
But definitely am going to file complaints regarding her license. We real estate agents/brokers are licensed to *protect the public*.
Thanks again, everybody. It'll all be fine with the new property managers in place.