Renting Out a Unit in a Brownstone

Ask on brownstoner.com. IMO, none of the houses currently on the market in prime-ish Bk even come close to covering the mortgage entirely based on rents (what you would pay for an equiv. rental unit + tenants). So ask yourself if this is worth it, to pay more out of pocket much more than what you would pay for a rental PLUS the headache of a tenant.

One huge thing bstone Bk has going for it are the super-low taxes. As long as you don't mess with the C of O or do anything to get a re-assessment of the assessed value (not market value), your taxes will perpetually be lower than in an equiv. co-op/condo.

What are your numbers? Are you thinking triplex over garden unit? Also, don't forget the costs of maintaining a house (boiler, more surfaces/things to break, maintaining rental unit, heating, etc.). Things inevitably break and need replacement unless you're talking about a mint-condition house.

NYC, I think OP's reference to taxes was in respect of taxes owed on the rental income, but agree with your comment regarding taxes lower generally.

I know, but I was pointing out the lower taxes aspect of Bstone Brooklyn as well. That can be huge, over time.

Of course, compare it to the landlord paying your taxes for you... I prefer paying zero taxes.

If you can carry the mortgage without a renter then go for it. I would just use some caution with what you pay in that whatever you pay will look high next year

"Of course, compare it to the landlord paying your taxes for you... I prefer paying zero taxes."

How many freakin' times do I have to say that TENANTS PAY TAXES? Not the landlord. The tenant does. It is factorerd into your rent. Please take an economics course.

i have a better idea. if this is in a prime area, you can do the short term, furnished rentals. when my in-laws came in for 2 weeks, i found a place 1 mile away from me, Windsor Terrace, for about $90 per night. it was convenient for them to run away from the rugrats and for us as it would have been a tight fit. in those 2 weeks, they paid more then the apartment would have rented for in a month. the owner did not have any tenants to evict and was more or less booked throughout the sprint/summer/fall. i'm in contract to purchase a house and planning to do the same thing. when my in-laws come, this time for 1-2 months, i'll have a place for them of their own, just downstairs not 1 mile away.

ab with the hotel room glut in nyc and rooms going for under 100 per night in Manhattan that would be retarded

thx for all the feedback, based, again on a little back of the envelope math, we're guessing our mortgage would be about 6k a month. we are guessing, that rent on the apt would be about 2k (maybe a little less). what we're trying to get our hands on is the monthly carrying costs of owning a brownstone. taxes - we can figure out easily enough, but being manhattan coop/condo owners for years we just dont have a good handle on the monthly costs to maintain a brownstone - heat, water, utilities, upkeep, repairs.

our maintenance right now on a 2 bedroom is bumping up against 2k a month (includes maintenance, taxes, heat and water and doorman i suppose (who i would like to fire every time they try to strike up a friendship right before the holidays) - but we do pay our own gas/electric/cable). i would like to believe that a brownstone had lower monthly costs but have no idea (hear a lot of conflicting info). can any one give me some info.

Satsu -
I'm a broker, yes, but I also own a two-family in Brooklyn. It's no borwnstone, but it does make my monthlies totally manageable. Our net monthly costs are the same as our previous rental, before factoring in the tax benefits. So it works for us. I can get into the monthlies (gas, water, electric) off this site, if you like. Or, gee - if you want me to air it here i can...
Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

^^uh, that would be "brownstone".

here's the breakdown that i see:

1 - gas for boiler (40 gl) $30 per month. if you get the new tankless heaters, it will be less.
2 - cooking gas $20 per month
2 - water $60 per month
3 - heat, that depends. i don't have anyone at home during the day, so i drop the temp to 60 degrees from 8 am to 5:30 pm. during other times, it's 75 degrees in the warmest part of the house (that's where the thermostat is). it costs $200-250 per month. depending on how efficient the boiler is for heating it could be more. ours is 3-4 yrs old and it's gas.

samadams, i just did a quick search for April and June and only found a 1 star hotel at $127 per night. most are in the $150's. now that i travel with kids in tow, i only rent 1 br apartments to make our life easier. take 2 rooms to equal a 1 br and you're at $250-300 for filthy places.

> "Of course, compare it to the landlord paying your taxes for you... I prefer paying zero taxes."
> How many freakin' times do I have to say that TENANTS PAY TAXES? Not the landlord. The tenant does.
> It is factorerd into your rent. Please take an economics course.

Alpo, once again you prove that you are clueless. its its hillarious that you don't even understand how dumb you are.

If I buy some groceries, and the store owner buys a hooker with that, did I buy a hooker?
Of course not!

When the landlord's taxes go up during my lease, do my taxes go up? Of course not! Can the taxes be higher than the rent I'm paying... yes!

Clearly YOU need to take an econ class. Hell, lets start with a MATH class. You certainly need one of those.

> Not the landlord.

Really now? Did alpo just say LANDLORD's DON'T PAY TAXES?!?!?

I love it! Cluless guy doesn't even know he's clueless!!

> It is factorerd into your rent.

No, its not. moron.

what is factored in is what the landlord can get in the market. That doesn't change just because his taxes change.

Again, alpo, go get a clue. Finish 3rd grade. Then go an argue with 3rd graders, they're more your speed.

Hi NYC123! - "As long as you don't mess with the C of O or do anything to get a re-assessment of the assessed value (not market value), your taxes will perpetually be lower than in an equiv. co-op/condo."
I wonder what actions on the owner´s part can trigger a re-assessment of the assessed value. Maybe a renovation? I just came across an sro bank sale and I am wondering if it´s better to just renovate it as an sro and leave the change of C of O for later...

Sorry I missed 2 zeroes in your handle....

Mimi: that's the rub, if you change it later, the assessed value may be even higher... I'm not expert on this, but some people have told me that occasionally the Dept of Finance will tax base on actual usage, not C of O. But how would they know?

Satsu: one way to get an accurate estimate of the monthly costs would be to ask for the bills of the house that you are interested in, both summer & winter, and look at the tenancy situation during those months. I believe ab, but his/her heating bills also sound quite low to me. The bulk of the monthly costs in winter will be the heating bill which is highly variable depending on how well-insulated your house is + the type of heating system. Water sounds about right, if one is metered (as opposed to frontage billing which is a flat rate based on size of house, # of toilets, etc.).

"Can the taxes be higher than the rent I'm paying... yes!"

But your taxes are NOT higher than your rent, which means that you are paying them, not yur landlord. I don't know of a single brownstone or comdo in Manhattan with a yearly rent that is below the annual taxes.

"But your taxes are NOT higher than your rent, which means that you are paying them, not yur landlord."

Maybe the stupidest thing I've ever heard. My rent is higher than my friend's car payment, that doesn't mean I'm making his car payment!

Seriously, alpo, give it up. You have no idea what you are talking about.

My landlord gets a tax bill. He writes a check.

I don't!

You don't write a check? Right. Clearly rental income helps pay for property taxes. It is a bit disingenuous to say that renters pay the taxes themselves, but if you live in an apartment, you can be sure some of your hard-earned cash is going towards the property taxes on, whether directly or indirectly. That you're going ballistic over this is no surprise of course.

bjw, I knew you just couldn't stay away. Clearly following me around is way too important for you.

after all your claims of "move on", you clearly haven't, you were just disingenuous as always.

You don't like people pointing out your bs and the best you can come up with is "stop following me around"? It's a RE discussion board, and what did I write about? Real estate! Someone stop me! It is to laugh.

Property taxes are a function of actual rental income for multi-family rental buildings. These days the City is tending to peg assessments so that taxes are 30% %u2013 35% of gross income. You may not be writing the check to the Commissioner of Finance, but a third of your rent ends up there eventually.

"My landlord gets a tax bill. He writes a check.

I don't!"

Wow, you truly know nothing. Taxes and expesnses almsot always get passed on to the consumer even if you do not pay them DIRECTLY. It's really that simple.

bjw, we all know you have a person fascination with me. after you whining and crying and claims to "move on", its just getting funnier and funnier every time you follow me around and comment on me personally.

"Wow, you truly know nothing."

coming from "THE MARKET IS NOT DOWN 20%, SHOW ME JUST ONE EXAMPLE" alpo, I take that as a compliment.

> Taxes and expesnses almsot always get passed on to the consumer even if you do not pay them
> DIRECTLY. It's really that simple.

Not when I have a lease, and my landlord's taxes go up. Its really that simple.

My landlord can pay his coke habit with my rent for all I care... but the taxes are his responsibility, not mine.

Cold winter months, it cost me a thousand dollars a month to heat a two-family house in Long Beach. Absolutely ask to see any seller's heating bills before you purchase.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Yeah, you're just not very bright - by moving on, I mean leaving the thread/issue alone. But, like clockwork, you reappear on other threads and blatantly make sh!t up, grossly distort, or insult all over again. Renters indirectly pay property taxes - if it makes you feel better to deny it, that's one thing, but it doesn't make it false. Your lease gets renewed every 1 or 2 years - you don't think landlords anticipate or adjust as needed? If your answer is yes, you've clearly never been or worked with a landlord/mgmt company. Rental income is used to defray ownership expenses, so don't pretend that you're living scot-free.

satsu: "we're guessing our mortgage would be about 6k a month. we are guessing, that rent on the apt would be about 2k (maybe a little less)."

That alone is enough information for me to make a decision... I would rather pay that 2k- rent instead of the 6k mortgage. The heating/water cost, re tax, up keep, down payment, etc... just make the equation even worse for buying.

agreed. it does seem like a lot of folks just really, really want to buy, and then search for the justification. Granted, much of that was learned over the past 20 years with the bubble. I wonder how that will change with a few more years of pain...