Toren Feb 2010 Update

Toren has to try to close everyone in contract first, then wait a period of time and become more desperate, before they finally lower pricing. They are trying to make everyone in contract close at full price, so obviously it would be harder to do this if they began advertising market pricing right now.

Looks like only 10 apts have closed? I assume the rest are fighting/resisting/trying to get better deals. Is that a fair assumption?

More than 10 apartments have closed...between 20-30. Difficult to justify lowering prices when most appraisals are coming in higher than contract value. The few appraisals that aren't higher are coming in at value. That one "2-bed" unit was formerly a 1-bedroom they converted to see if it would sell as a 2 bed.

there is no way to appraise Toren. I would love to know the equation. Stuff like this makes me glad I sold all my stocks

To appraise Toren, they should look at the most recent prices of apartments in the the area that JUST WENT INTO CONTRACT in the past 2 months.

The pricing is ridiculous. I can't imagine anyone buying there now at these prices. All that's left is for the developer to capitulate.

Something or someone is going to have to give!

Other wise I don't see any progress in sales at this price point. The Closed sales were all for the Affordable units so far as I can see on Streeteasy!

The affordable units are on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th floors. One affordable sale has been recorded. The others on higher floors are market rate units.

I don't get it. Such crazy prices....how can this sell at anything over 600psf..and I think that is the good scenario (to clear the building). Bull or bear,...so few closings means the story has yet to be told.

Where do you see 20-30 closings? There are only 10 on SE.

There are certainly more than 10 units moved in already on Higher Floors, not sure if more than 20 though. walk or drive by in the evening, and you will see.

Some could be rentals. You can't count sales from the lights in the windows.
Do you have any actual information beyond the 10 closings on Streeteasy?

It's a very small square footage to be called a two bedroom. You can get very decent two-beds in better neighborhoods for the same price. With $600k to spend you can wind up on much better street in Brooklyn, with a better space.

I'm not sure why you're drawn to it. I guess you are drawn to new construction, and that's fine if that's your choice. It's just that if you take the long view, new construction doesn't hold its value as well as older stuff in New York.

Maybe you're not bearish on the market prospects (I am, but you're entitled to your view). But it's one thing to be bullish on established properties, and it's something else againt to be bullish on new construction.

All I'm saying is, anyone buying today is taking on a bit of risk that they won't be able to sell down the road for as much as they paid. You're ok with that risk, fine.

But that risk goes up significantly on new construction and on newly gentrified areas. Torren qualifies on both counts.

If somebody found an apartment they loved at a price they could afford in the current uncertain environment -- ok, if it's an established place, then do it.

But to make that choice on a property and a neighborhood that have not proven they can support top-of-the-market pricing.....well, that's really an unnecessary risk, one that doesn't offer enough of a payoff, if you ask me.

People take risks to get rewarded. But what's the reward of taking the Torren risk, versus say a two-bedroom pre-war in Park Slope? I don't think there is one. I don't think Torren is going to command a premium to pre-war construction in five or ten years, do you?

By that time the polish will have worn off the stuff that was built in the 2000's.

That is something I've never understood in my 8 years in NY. I've lived in brownstones and pre-war buildings before and I found them quite terrible. maybe it was the specific buildings (although I changed quite a it) but..coackroaches, rats, heating that boils you in winter, terrible airconditioning in the summer, weird layout with no air-circulation...and so on. The charm wore off pretty quickly in my case...I live in a new buiding and I find it pretty good!:) but somehow many people seem to prefer old constructuion (controlling for the area). Also, I've heard before about old contrution holding value but I am not sure how to think of it. How do we know whether new construction holds value? is there historical evidence of that? I am actually curious about it.

I am a big fan of NEW CONSTRUCTION, but at a sustainable price, meaning if the price per square foot will be justified 5 years down the road!

goes without saying....

does it still look like Lego?

They're giving price concessions:
02/08/2010 #2907 $440,000 -16.2% $525,000↑ Sold 1 bed 1 bath 609 ft²

Closing price is still at $722 per sq ft. Hardly a concession!! Still high for this location.