Honest Square Footage calculation for loft lovers

Sorry typo.
When you buy a condo or coop in a non-loft building, exterior walls typically are not included and your proportionate share of common areas in most cases are excluded.

Compare the above to the following listings:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/487455-condo-56-east-13th-street-greenwich-village-new-york

Real ~1650 sq foot.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/499589-coop-54-east-11th-street-greenwich-village-new-york

Real ~1650 sq foot.

Huh?
How do you price on a square footage basis?
Does it go like this:
Seller lists an apartment for sale, and says it is 2000 sq. ft. List it at $2MM.
One guy comes buy, isn't all that sophisticated on using a tape measure because he's on the metric system, but checks it out with the kids who run back and forth and the wife imagines where all the furniture goes. Nothing is hidden. The guy offer $1.95 million, 2.5% under ask.
You come by, you pull out your laser sights and determine it is 1750 sq. ft. You really like the apartment though, and are willing to pay $1100 per share foot, and so you say, I'll buy your apartment at $1100 per square foot and it is 1750 sq. ft. 10% more per square foot than you asked because I really like it. You tell the seller you are paying a premium on a price per real square footage basis with a big smile on your face.
Seller chooses you, who is paying more on a pricing per real square foot basis, or seller chooses the guy who will pay $25K more for the apartment?

Square footage is an extremely important part of the calculation which lets you compare properties in similar locations. I am certainly not arguing that light, layout, floor, condition etc of the apartment should not be a factor. I am just asking for honesty in the listings for a measure which can be calculated. If the square footage does not matter, they why do the sellers and their brokers tend to inflate not understate the square footage.

I love it when people cannot understand multivariate regression and multi-factor causality. They should make it into a board game.

And at the VERY least, it is the one factor that you should be completely objective. A foot is a foot, right? Light, views, conditions, layouts, etc. are all valued subjectively. Can't we have one given?

Which weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of rocks?

Square footage is certainly a factor, and there needs to be some set of guidelines or standards implemented.
However, talking about lofts specifically, it's a bit tricky, particularly when you have full floor lofts.
One can argue that the elevator and stairs is not living space and some can really eat up a lot of space, but a fair counter argument is this a bit of a luxury, being the only stop on a floor.
There are many reasons lofts do tend to sell less $'s per foot and loss of living space is one of those reasons.
Thicker walls have a luxury too, a quieter apartment.
Maybe have a two set number, gross footage and net footage?
Or give a value of 1/2 a foot of brick footage to living footage, like with outdoor space.

A proper set of measurement rules do need to be implemented.

truthskr,

Unfortunately, this is the very same industry that lobbied to fight money laundering laws that would prevent drug dealers and embezzled foreign money from buying US real estate.

Do you really think that the real estate industry is going to allow sq ft regulations to be passed? If they are passed, will they be enforced?

When you have a condo, you can look at the offering plan, which says precisely how it is measured and the square footage (which often is not what the brokers claim in listings). In my loft shoppping experience, the offering plan measurements did not include elevators or stairs, and measured from the unfinished interior of the exterior wall (i.e., it included drywall and studs, but not the exterior wall).

memito
Vhat..you don't think the Obamanator can bully the regulation through? :)

Seriously, any industry that goes too wild west gets regulated. I think RE may be in for some scrutiny if it's path stays the course.

While the rules for square footage calculation will be great but we know it will be hard. How about buyers start to think more rationally rather than MOSTLY emotionally like lintintin? My goal for this post was for buyers to become more cautious about loft sq footage calculations.

Also what square footage should be used for price per square feet when there is a mezzanine. Lofts with high ceilings often count mezzanine space, so a 700 sq ft apartment becomes 1100 including counting ie. 400 sq ft of loft mezzanine space. unless the loft has 16ft ceilings, the mezzanine ceiling space ends up 5ft or 6ft or in between. When doing comps to get an idea of price, or price per square foot, the numbers can be manipulated. Should the basic floor plan space be used?

Mezzanine unless it has 8 foot ceilings should not be counted. This means that the ceilings have to be 17ft so that two 8 foot ceiling height levels are available and 1 foot is used for floor/ceiling.

nyc_sport, the plans you have seen seem to be appropriately measured. However, most of the listing include exterior walls, elevator and stairs.

People who build mezzanines with 16 foot ceilings should be gathered in the town square and publicly flogged.

"People who build mezzanines with 16 foot ceilings should be gathered in the town square and publicly flogged"

What if they happen to be hobbits.

On mezzanines; Well their not worth zero.
But their much lower value is usually reflected in their price. At least the ones Ive seen.

Don't appraisers have a set of protocols that governs their work? While far from perfect, in theory two honest appraisers should look at the same apartment and come up with somewhat matching data. If wall thickness, elevator space, mezzanines,terraces, and other spaces are factors, won't one appraiser treat these pretty much the same as another?

Do such protocols exist?
What are they?

Yes, but I don't know what they are. The house appraisals I've seen calculate from the outside perimeter. For apartments, it's been the inside perimeter.

The NYS regulations don't require a particular method, but do require disclosure of what's being measured: to inside perimeter, inside structural walls, outside walls, etc. The plans filed with the city will graphically show what's unit area, what's limited common area, what's common area, etc.

Anyone seriously looking at condos would read the offering plan or condo declaration for each one, and normalize to their own consistent standard. No other way to compare, if you're going to make that a big factor.

Can't believe I wrote "their"......TWICE! they're!

The plans filed with the city will also specify floor-to-floor height, or floor-to-ceiling height, or both.