NYO: River House, The Has-Been

I agree that 15 CPW has stolen some of River House's limelight, but in general, this article doesn't make any sense. The writer simultaneously argues that River House is less cool than formerly because there's no happening restaurant around (really, it's that far to get to L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon?) and that it's less cool than formerly because it now has "posh neighbors?"

Also, five apartments for sale in 79-unit River House is a sign of some sort of problem, but eight apartments for sale in 200-unit 15 CPW is just fine? Maybe when six percent of a building goes up for sale, it goes off the map; would someone please warn 770 Park, a 41-unit building that has committed the irrelevancy of having three active sales?

Also also, the article argues that it doesn't make sense to be by the river for fast transportation to one's country place because Robert Moses took the yachting dock away -- but when one lives a certain lifestyle now, doesn't one helicopter to one's summer place? Did they suddenly put a helipad on Central Park South and I missed it?

River House, still one of my favorite buildings.

Ali R.
DG Neary Realty

River House sure is nice. I will gladly buy Marty Richards' apartment there today; if he will let me pay him on Tuesday. Did he sell it yet?

The number of units for sale here has risen to eight of eighty or 10%. Doesn't that seem high for any building? Does anyone have any update on why residents may be fleeing? The average days on the market for the apartments here is 500 days, which seems high even given the building's iconic status.

Garbo lived there until her dealth in 1990 and attached is a peppy little article from 1980 about Gloria Vanderbilt being rejected since she was friends with Bobby Short and the sellers attny asked if they were going to be married. As if. It really doesn't seem a likely area to live in these times. It is spectacular though. The same with UN Plaza which was the last word in high-end contemporary living a la 1964. Personally, I'd rather have a safer city with more neighborhood options.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20076676,00.html

Bill, Garbo lived across the street at the Campanile. I wonder if the reason there are so many units still for sale is the fact that it is a very difficult board. River House would be my choice of where to live if I could afford it & the board would actually talk to me.

Garbo did not live in River House. She lived in the small riverfront building across the street.

You are right, she lived at 450. Duh.

drdrd; Difficult board or not, that guard will change as they "move on". I am sure things will lighten up when another generation digs their heels in. Whenever that will be. Still, a great building if that is where somebody wants to live.

Garbo ordered take-out frequently from Sarges and was a big fan of corned beef on rye and potato knishes.
I want to eat.........alone.

What I find so amusing is how Bobby Short and People magazine talked around the gay issue in 1980. Oh wait isn't that kind of what a certain very famous anchor man might do today.

Everything in this area sits on the market, so inevitably the doleur creeps up the food chain. The east side generally is pain in the butt and the far east side on the river even more so. It's also a decent point about the lack of restaurants etc, bc they can't survive for the very same reason, no traffic, bad location.

Imagine my delight to find old thread answering exactly the question I had while continuing my research. Because I my NY existence is anchored in ME for professional reasons, I continue to explore buildings for prospective residence if I can ever convince my partner to settle on NYC (partner is partial to SF first, DC second, NY third). When I expanded my research from "rent" to "buy" with my particular parameters, friends highly recommended River House. While I do not question friends in terms of quality of facilities, I do question them in terms of pragmatism and I am concerned that there is such a significant percentage of the building currently for sale. This is because unlike friends who recommended building, both my partner and I work for a living and while I would like to think that we are committing for long haul if we buy in New York, we do not have luxury of knowing that our mutual good fortune will last indefinitely or knowing that we know what we will want in 10 years, such that we may need/want to resell the apartment at some point. So, with that said, three questions: (1) Would our finite resources be type of thing that would cause board to not approve us to begin with such that we need not worry about purchasing here? (We could put 50% down and would have post-closing reserves in bank for three years); (2) If Board were to approve us, is large percentage of building for sale indicative of something bigger going on here? I know there are voices on SE who are not keen on ME, but if one were not worried about future of ME and only concerned about specifics of specific buildings, what is latest about River House and what, if anything, does 10% for sale suggest? (3) Any insight on River House vs. 1 Beekman Place vs. 845 UN Plaza appreciated. BTW to Front Porch - Imagine my double delight to find that you are a fan of the building; would value highly your current thoughts.

River House is absolutely delicious, as is One Beekman, but unless you're SOMEBODY with tens of millions of dollars post close, fuggetaboudit.

Hey NYC Novice, life is too short to inflict pain on yourself. River House is one of the greatest, if not the greatest apartment building, in New York, all things considered, e.g. the knockout river views, the scale of the apartments, etc. However, try getting past the board. Post-closing reserves in the neighborhood of three years is laughable. Try MULTIPLES of the apartment sales price, plus your social connections mean a great deal to the board.

Look elsewhere and save yourself the heartburn and headaches. Probably one of the few things revolving around real estate here in the big town where Ali Rogers and I agree.

Well, DRAT. Hopefully economic realities will force board to lighten up eventually (eg when large enough number of shareholders want to exit) and the facilities will be liberated. Reminds me of certain clubs that are dying for lack of new members who meet their criteria. I am a legacy of a few of these and have resisted joining despite family pressure for sheer lack of interest. As I age, however, I realize these clubs provide access to best facilities, views, etc and have been tempted. These clubs are so desperate for their own kind that they lower financial bar for legacies. That is not working for them so they are now considering relaxing even social criteria for membership simply to survive. Perhaps River House will go the same way eventually. In the interim, another building crossed off my list. Thank you for the insight.

Hi NYCN/MCR -- I do think that whatever economic realities are doing, they don't seem to be driving people with many multiple millions to the point of destitution where they're going to leave River House. We can talk at 845 UNP though.

If you write me, just put "streeteasy' in the subject line so I can find it.

ali r.

You mean you haven't heard?!?

River House is now accepting Section 8!

River House isn't exactly going begging. It has 8 listings out of 80 apartments -- not crazy. Most people who live there leave in a box. Not keeping pace with comparable Park Avenue apartments that appreciated up to and beyond $20 million doesn't mean it's less exclusive now than it was 10 or 20 years ago in terms of what the board is looking for

I'm just an old guy absolutely in ecstacy because I'm about to close on an adorable studio with a Hudson River view. I so much prefer that to the East River view, pardon me for saying so. The East River frequently looks dirty, more like a commercial piece of water than the beautiful Hudson River. And Chelsea is so exciting -- not just because of all the gay life -- but for so many more reasons. The Hi-Line (sp?) is absolutely stunning, and there are so many restaurants -- pricey to economical -- to choose from. And I'm blown away by all the stunning art venues, again from pricey to cheap.

God I love New York, the best city and the best people in the world.

Front Porch - As always, thank you for insight. I think I am going to lose the battle to relocate full-time to New York because my husband and I are likely priced out of all the buildings that would work for both of us. He would be fine in Westchester, but for me that would defeat the purpose; to get Westchester in the middle of the city, not surprisingly, one has to have a lot more money than we do. I am sure as a broker you have seen your share of partners with different priorities in real estate. Mercifully both my husband and I are both lawyers and have an excellent and long history of finding things that work for both of us, so I am not giving up just yet.

Riccardo65 - Couldn't agree more about New York; I'd rather live in a studio in New York than a mansion in DC or SF. And I also prefer west side to east side (of course I LOVE the High line - also not sure about sp), but I can't stand any commute, so east side is where I am "stuck."

PS to Fairway - I get it about leaving in a box; I am from Grosse Pointe and grew up going to the Island Club on Jupiter Island, where my father can be found most of the time now. My parents have made clear they will not sell either property and wish us the best of luck finding buyers whom other residents will accept after they are gone (none of us want to live in either place, and we already know that both properties will go for a fraction of what they would if they were located in more hospitable communities). I absolutely adore the anachronisms that are my parents and get why they want to finish out their days among their own kind; there is not an ounce of bigotry; they are just old. The bulk of people I grew up with feel the same way that I do, which is why I believe River House will change eventually, but not in any timeframe that will work for my husband and me.

Yeah Walpurgis, about $8MM per section.
True story, first time I saw Sutton Place as a kid I said to my mother I thought it was really pretty but I would NEVER want to live there because it was so far from the train. My mother replied to me that people who did live there didn't care about the subway, they didn't take it. I honestly didn't believe her. How could ANYONE not need the train?

NYCN, I am married myself so I get it. However, you do really seem to have champagne tastes in that you want both a large apartment and a nice building. That costs a dollar, and you're not going to find it for a quarter, no matter how hard you look. If you could scale your wants down from a 3-BR to a convertible 3-BR it would help your cause a lot.

Of course, you're not the only dreamer out there. There's another thread on this site from someone who wants a 4500 sf waterfront house, with 30 minutes of the city, for a million and a half.

ali

Hi Ali - Yes, this is a problem. I am trying to convince my better half that we can maintain the standard of living we enjoy in DC and SF in NYC. For me, a one BR would be fine; for him, space and amenities are more important b/c he does not LOVE New York the way I do (but he is warming to it). The first rental experience did not do my cause a great service, but the current rental at 310 East 53rd is working out well. We were there a few weeks ago and the apartment was delightfully cool despite the horrendous temperatures outside. I have abandoned pied-a-terre condo research completely, ultimately siding with those on this site who do not view NY real estate as best investment at the moment and am now on to running numbers on coop as primary residence. Coop financial requirements make sense to the extent that community is looking for people who really want to make coop their home rather than investment; I am of school of thought that ROI and liquidity should not be main factors in selection of primary residence. The part I am struggling with is net worth vs. liquidiy. Do most exclusive coops require multiples of sales price in liquid assets as opposed to total assets?

LOL NativeRestless - that comeback was spot on!

Funny you should mention Sutton Place as a child: My mom's OBGYN was in one of the pre-war beauties on 57th Street, between 1st & SPS.

We came in from Prospect Heights via the IRT, getting off on 59th right by the Alexander's construction site, where age would hold me up so I could see through the boards I clearly remember the pilings & wire mesh being installed.

When we got to 57th, I would always look up, & ask her, "Why are there trees on the roof Mommie?"

I can't recall her answer, but from that point forward, I was hooked!

Fast forward a few decades, & I saw history repeating itself: The old Alexander's was already torn down, & when I peered through the boards this time...there were the new pilings & wire mesh being put in...for One Beacon Court!

Scary- I really HAVE ven around a ling time!!!

Make that "where MOM would hold me up..." #$%&* type-ahead feature!!!

Again with this thing: "ven & "ling" s/b " been" & "long"!

I give up...

I've never understood why River House is so revered. Tied with Dakota for #1 co-op on cityrealty and it gets an 8 our of 8 as an architectural masterpiece. There are far nicer places.....

"I am from Grosse Pointe and grew up going to the Island Club on Jupiter Island"

NYCnovice - have you looked at the Sovereign on East 58th? Not pre-war but the apartments, particularly the 3 bedrooms at about 2,800 sf are very spacious and well laid out, some with spectacular views. And the building staffing/service is great. (though maintenance is a little on the high side because of that).

Regarding value, I found it interesting that Donald Trump Jr. bought two adjoining units to combine in 2009

So, after now 34 mos in NYC on a relatively regular and focused basis, my questions on River House and One Beekman Place rank quite high on the embarrassingly ignorant questions I have asked in my life.

Oh, Jane.

^So...did you finally convince your partner to move here? I didn't think your questions were embarrassing at all. How would you know about the multiple liquid asset thinngy required by some buildings here unless you've lived here. Are you still planning on buying in NYC and if so, do you still like the ME area?

Just curious...

Thanks shny. Still love midtown east; could not convince partner to make NYC primary residence; not likely to buy but kind of always looking. We've been renting condo for past 18 months in building and location we love, so we are likely to just stay put.

Good for you. I was having a panic attack wondering how it all played out. Thanks for the update.