Liberty Luxe

nothing, but i am dying to know!!!
any eta when they will start showing?

i am interested too. read alot on these threads about it, Milstein not having the best reputation; speculation if they would be rentals etc. Now their website doesn't say when they will debute, or starting prices. I guess we will just have to see. They predict closings in 2011. I've heard the market is still dropping, maybe they wont start sales until year end.

All the Milstein buildings in BPC (Liberty House, Liberty Terrace, Liberty Court and Liberty View) are almost half condo/rentals. They might do a similar ratio in their new buildings.
The fact that they own a bank may also help finance mortgages for qualified buyers.

we are waiting for info as well. Been scouting both buildings daily as we work downtown 3 blocks away. Also read about Milstein rep...hope this materializes either as condo or rental.

I put myself on their mailing list and will post something as soon as I get any info.

I also joined the mailing list.Walked past the buildings yesterday. Spoke to some of the construction workers who had no info except to joke about how expensive the units are going to be. It does appear that the Liberty Green building will be ready first. The oustide looks pretty complete. The sales office will be at 250 Vesey/4WFC I believe.

April 26, 2010 article from The Broadsheet DAILY (supplement to The Battery Park City Broadsheet) regarding Liberty Luxe and Liberty Green:

Fannie Mae warms to BPC's Liberty Luxe and Liberty Green
Grants 'conditional approval' to mortgage sales in Milford's new condominiums

There's a glimmer of good news for people whose attempts to buy or sell condos in Battery Park City have been frustrated by confusion among lenders over Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae) proscriptions. Fannie Mae buys mortgages from banks and bundles them into securities that are then sold to investors. The banks use the proceeds from these sales to make more mortgage loans, but can sell the original mortgages only when Fannie Mae agrees that they meet its guidelines. Fannie Mae has balked recently at backing mortgages secured by real estate subject to Battery Park City's ground leases.

The most recent development is that Fannie Mae has granted "conditional approval" to the two newest condominiums in Battery Park City, Liberty Luxe and Liberty Green, now under construction on North End Avenue and expected to open in 2011. A spokesman for Fannie Mae explained that "'conditional approval' means that even if a building does not currently meet our requirements, we are satisfied that it will and have therefore notified lenders that we will purchase mortgages for apartments within that project."

Concerning the larger problem of existing Battery Park City condos where lenders appear to have stopped making loans until they receive assurances from Fannie Mae that it will accept these mortgages as consistent with its guidelines, a source familiar with ongoing discussions between real estate companies, Fannie Mae and the Battery Park City Authority, says that "we're very close to getting approvals for three more buildings - Liberty House, Liberty Terrace and Liberty Court." This source says that Fannie Mae officials have already given informal, verbal approval about a number of technical issues (such as whether each building has a sufficient reserve fund) that were the last obstacles delaying official acceptance of each of these buildings. The final, written approval for these three is expected in the next several weeks.

Further progress on this issue, which should benefit all Battery Park City condos, has also recently been made in separate discussions that have focused on the ground leases each building has with the Battery Park City Authority. A source familiar with these discussions notes that Fannie Mae, assisted by an outside law firm that it retained for this purpose, is nearly finished reviewing all of the ground leases and is expected to issue soon a written declaration that they meet the agency's guidelines. Once released, this letter will be made available to the managing agents and boards of each condo, and can be used by condo buyers or sellers to assure a prospective lender that a mortgage is eligible for sale to Fannie Mae. "Overall, they now appear to be satisfied with the leases," this source explained. "We're just waiting for the final sign-offs and then the problem should be resolved."

- Matthew Fenton (writer of article)

received email that sales office will be doing presentations for both buildings shortly. Will post more info as it becomes available. The email DID indicate occupancies starting late 2010.

Seems like the prices at Riverhouse have been dropping recently. I imagine that a couple of hundred units coming on the market around the corner may have something to do with it.

i think riverhouse may be having some financial difficulties also. i seem to recall a curbed article a few days back.

looking at riverhouse,however waiting to see design and pricing at these new buildings.any info on riverhouse would be appreciated,i know they changed sponsors this past year

Sales office open and making appointments. Anyone else receive a call?

Yes. I got a call and heard they would open sales office this week.

They are opening today June 8.

Made an appointment with sales rep. Can't wait to see the presentation and offering.

any idea on pricing?

No hint on prices, will have to wait to see prospective at sales office.

can't wait to hear and see!

I am awaiting further information, but I was shocked when I heard 700k studio and 900k one bedroom via the phone; I can't recall the tax abatement terms, but even if these are visionaire type conods that is much steeper than I would have thought. Those are the visionaire prices of late 07. I specualte the tax abatement is lumped into the price, so the developer can double dip. Figure it is around $700 per month of savings (1 bedroom) that will accreate over 15 or 20 yrs. We'll all have to learn more about the land lease and CC's, but this reminds me of the 333 Rector/the One Rector Park launch late '08. Nice units, high common, lack of loan availability and inflated prices.

mjpayo, if you are considering the Riverhouse, make sure to hire a very good lawyer and be very careful when dealing with these guys. Also read about the recent lawsuit made by one of the owners at the Riverhouse. Why don't you consider the Visionaire? It is a much better quality building, better finishes, better amenities espeically the lobby and the gym, not to mention the beautiful roof common area, an upcoming grocery store in the ground floor, closer to transportation, beautiful parks around, and espeically if you have kids the building is just next door to the best school in the downtown. Again, be careful with the Riverhouse. I have personally not been involved, but have heard horrible stories.

Best FINANCIALLY is the Millennium, 30 West Street, if anyone wants to invest in a new building.

Liberty Luxe and Liberty Green

1) High GROUND RENT, therefore common charges are high

2) 421A TAX ABATEMENT will keep taxes low for 4 years and somewhat lower for the next 6 years

3) Prices per square foot are high (about 20%)

are there model apartments or just a sales office

yes I have also heard 750K for studio and high commons. Am guessing sales office with design models and blueprints. Thought the prices were going to be steep as even a construction guy I spoke to at the site told me the apartments were going to go for a mil and more. Still want to see and hear the presentation and what the units will look like. If I am selling my house I want to know exactly what I am getting into. The big draw for me is the proximity to the office, Whole Foods and Bed Bath and Beyond:)

greengirl- have you looked at the visionaire

RE2009, No haven't looked at Visionaire..was pretty interested when it was going up as I passed it every morning on way to work. Its a beautiful building but we didn't want to be so far down West St. However if LL & LG don't pan out might be interested again..are there any 2 bedrooms buy or rent....prices? Any info welcome, Thanks

I was also concerned about being so west, but so glad i did it. It's much closer to all the subways and really feels like you live in a park. I looked ar RH and thought i would like that location better. I am SSSSOOOO glad i ended up on that block.
There are two beds for sale and not sure of the price. Even if you like LL and LG you owe it to yourself to look at the visionaire.

greengirl....also look at the Millennium right next door to the Visionaire. This building has the best financials of the new buildings and the absolute best high end finishes of any of the new buildings.
I chose to live here for that reason. By the way, I do not work for any real estate or related company. Just offering sound advice. Good luck.

RE2009 & Prada....Thanks for all the suggestions..appreciate it greatly as we want to pick the best place to live for the best bang for the money. Want to stay BPC/Tribeca area as it is close to work, shopping, etc. And the hub loves the park settings whichever buildings we look at. Will definitely check out the Millennium too now that I have more info from you guys. Thanks again!

greengirl--I will throw in my two cents as well--like RE2009 I was so hesitant about living so far west and south--but what RE says is true--the convenience of all the subways really makes it easy and some nice new places to eat (esp on the weekends) add to the convenience. I agree with Prada (also I am not a realtor nor do I have any affiliation with any) but the Millennium (I own a 2 BR here) is extremely well run, friendly and beautiful. I have been having a lot of work done before my final move in and the staff have been so helpful. From what I have seen, the Visionaire seems beautiful as well and the addition of a new organic store at the Visionaire will only add to its value--good luck--

What about when the 5 year buydowns on Maintenance end on Millennium and Visonaire. What is the price per sq. ft of CC/Maintenance including the 2011 ground rent jump if there is one? for these bldgs Would help for comparison purposes as people look into luxe. How high is the ground rent relative to others?

I am seeing (tried to find comparable floors and views to make this more apples to apples)

I figure these bump up into around $2.75-$3.0 or higher in 2 yrs, which is around 20%-30% premium, granted you ammenities are different
RH: $1.64
Millenium:$1.71
Visionaire: $1.66

200 Rector $1.81 going up to something like $2.30 in 2011
380 Recor $1.63 going up to something like $2.06 in 2011

Any further updates on Luxe since sales office opened on Tues?

shah,thank you for insight on riverhouse.i like rv location and building seems to be fairly high end,i will take your advice and look at visonaire and millennium.like others i do not want to be that far south,however its seems that those who made move are extremely happy .i have appt with lib green and lib luxe tomorrow.i have been looking in tribeca,however i think you get better value in bpc and certainly more amenities.i would like to find 3 bedroom and stay put for 15 years.

Fleur..thanks for your input too...we have an appt next Sat at the LL/LG sales office but becoming very interested in the Millennium. Would need 2 br too. Own a house right now in Mill Basin, Bklyn and not too savvy on condo buying/living so any info on CC's, maintenance, park maintenance fees(?) is welcome. Work on Vesey, tired of the commute grind and want the suburban urban living BPC offers. If we do this husband only wants to move to BPC/Tribeca. Loves it!! Have friends living in River House uptown,
paid 950K for 1BR..nice building, river view, very prestigious but we prefer downtown and newer building amenities.

While I do not know fleur and prada personally, we are all neighboors and passionate about our little block in BPC and none of us are brokers. I did not look at the Millennium but have heard great things about it from the people that live there and i know first hand what a great staff they have.
If you are even entertaining living in BPC you MUST see the Millennium and the Visionaire.
Both lovely, lovely buildings with great people living there.
Keep us posted!

RE..thanks for the encouragement..exactly what we are looking for great buildings with great people along with having everything else we need at our fingertips living in Manhattan. Will keep you posted! Pass the Visionaire every day on the bus and today took extra care checking out that building and the others next to it as we took the turn out of the tunnel. Was wondering which building was which..know the Visionaire, trying to place Millennium and others. In the meantime...saw a posting about LL&LG being featured on NBC LXTV Open House on Sun. 6/13 at 8:30AM and repeated at 12:30PM. It should be interesting to see how the buildings are featured. Also, has anyone been at the sales office yet? We are not scheduled till next week. If so...what is the deal?

green- millennium is right between the ritz and the visionaire. so on our block we have ritz, millennium, visionaire. it also is the building with the great italian resturant. a great little block and behind us is the cul de sac- which i personally LOVE.
thanks for the info on LXTV.. will be sure to catch it

had appointment with sales office at luxury green.my impression is that it will be a high-end building with numerous amenities and high end touches,however cc charges are extremely high,you do get 421a tax abatement however they certainly add some of savings to cc.salesperson mentioned they are not offering mortgage contingency.the combination of no mortgage contingency and 1400-1500 sq ft,you would think it is 2007 all over again.i think i will explore southern end of btc.

Thanks for the info mjpayo, plan on going over to see for myself in a week. Looks like it will be slow-going for them. One Rector Park tried this tactic their first year and shifted gears during year 2 and now is owned by the lenders. With the deep pockets of the Millstein's and the 421-a, they will probably sell similar to the slow pace of the Visionaire given that they can afford to wait it out; hopefully these prices come down more inline with today's reality despite Goldman on their doorstep. I am sure the bldgs are nice, but plenty of nice bldgs available for a 1000/ft or less. '07 indeed.

Sounds like alot of us will be exploring other buildings...just found out a friend of a friend has been living in BPC for the past 10yrs (possibly the Millennium, RE, and thanks for the info). So will still check out the sales office next week but will take a walk afterwards and look at other buildings on West. Thanks for the heads up mjpayo. At least we know what to expect on the pitch. Was concerned about high cc's and mortgage contingency.

last week i viewed the visionaire and millennium and was impressed by both,although in my opinion the visionaire is clearly the best building in bpc.the gym is excellent,almost equinox level,it has sauna and steam rooms.the roof desk has amazing views of water in addition it is very functional with bbq and chairs .i am still considering riverhouse becauce of it's north bpc/tribeca location,i need to do more research on south bpc location,i know some of you made move and are very happy

mj...anything you would like to know ask away!!

RE2009: Can you breakdown the cc per ft in visionaire presently and post the buydown? I believe it ends in two yrs. Liberty Luxe is 1.6 per ft now and obviously has the 10yr 421-a, which increases your tax base every 2 years by 20%. Would like to better comp the out of pocket expenses. Anything unique in the visionaire's offering plan like riverhouses' 1% of the selling price must be paid to the BPCA on a resale. How's the land lease overall for taxes?

hey RE2009, i hope you don't mind me chiming in, but i do have some questions regarding BPC. i have just started a discussion called BPC/PILOT/visionaire. i am curious about pricing in the visionaire. according to SE there doesn't seem to be any sales recorded since december. i know recently there was that fanny mae scare. do you have a feel for what the visionaire is selling units at ppsf?

Check Trulia or NYC Deptartment of Finance for that info, a 2 bedroom recently sold for high 900s

wow- some very detailed $$ questions! not be be unhelpful but i would rather stay away from those.
Re the abatement i do not have the numbers in front of me but they are ready available from the sales office- think 2.30 is in the ballpark. And do not recall anything too unique in the offering plan, but again best to get one and have a lawyer review.
There have been sales in the building this year and seems like it is really picking up. While there is some negotiating, it's far from a fire sale. But i can say that it is worth every penny! Living here is like living in a five star hotel, it's amazing and the unit are top notch.
I know i said ask away and i meant it, but as i am not in the process of buying but rather live here happy to answer questions about the hood and living in the visionaire.

logic, i find that very, very hard to believe as a one bed just went for 900k and a 2 bed 1.4 . Does it say the unit number?

or did you mean high 900 psf?

RE2009: i hear ya; just looking at various BPC buildings out of pocket expenses, and I am more concerned with 2011 comparisons than current numbers; maintaining lower cash expenses relative to a slighlty elevated purchase price is better long term as evidenced by 377, 389, 200 rector relative to other old buildings, so I am digging around to size up visionaire, millenium, RH and Liberty luxe/green before taking the plunge, that said I am not paying $1250psf for liberty luxe/green and transfer tax etc...

Yes, when I said 900s I meant psf, last sale was 17G for $978psf

Logic, i can't say enough good things about living here and the visionaire. I did not look but i hear very good things about the millennium. The nice thing about living down here is everyone chats with each other and everyone i speak to loves it. I think the two best are the visionaire and the millenium!

thanks RE2009 about your neighborhood feedback. i walked around there and i definitely get what you're seeing. it is a fantastic neighborhood! enjoy

thanks for your input re 2009,after viewing the property last week i agree with your description of it being like a 5 star hotel.based on my observations the monthlies on the visionaire will run 2.4 psf as oppossed to 1.8 for millenium,do you believe it is worth the difference?i live 1 block from riverhouse and love the area and nearby rest. and shops in tribeca and my concern is that i may not get the same experience in southern btc,i guess i need to spend more time in area.any help would be appreciated

mj- if you have read any of my post you can tell i am not the type to say my way or my building is the best. IMO the visionaire is worth the price difference as i really wanted that luxury feel...and think in the long run when the economy comes back people will pay for that (resale value). But again i know people in the millenium and love it. And i do know first hand what a great staff they have, So it comes down to each persons situation and if they want to pay the difference. There is no right or wrong answer.
Re the location, I had the same concern and FREAKED the week before closing. Now i LOVE it!!! Yes it is quiet but it is so peaceful and serene. I love to walk and get out so it's not a big deal. The proximity to all the subways also really won me over and being so close to the park!!!
MJ do you have a dog?? It's a great place to have one.

Under the weather for a week and missed my appt at LL/LG sales office. Rescheduled. Been reading the latest posts and my husband is getting freaked out about these costs. As a first time potential buyer of a condo and especially BPC what exactly is involved? Would like to be armed and aware with savvy questions when we get to the sales office. Been hearing alot about PILOT, land leases, etc...RE2009 and Prada..I know the area is first rate..have not walked your part yet, only near the Liberties and down the promenade by the Fiannacial Center but we get the whole BPC charm, northern or southern and want to be a part of it. Appreciate your input.

Your not missing much greengirl. While I can attest to the Millstein's brand name and their management staff in BPC, their current price point does not justify the tax abatement or lower CC; the amenities look comparable to a RH, Mil, Vis. The buildings won't be ready until December for one and around Feb for the other, so you won't get to see the finished product until then. Total is something like 360 units of inventory, visionaire has availability, millenium has availability, One Rector Park is still working through lender takeover, 225 Rector bankruptcy will probably drag on for a another 12-18 months and then you have the 1980s BPC buildings, but in the end, we are talking a lot of inventory for some of these price points. Questions to ask: Land Lease details, details on 421-a, security fund payment upon closing, transfer tax payment, contingency if building does reach a certain % sold or if the bldg (don't want to be paying maintenance for a building 20% complete and possibly without all of the facilities--I could name a few from the '08 heyday) is not completed in a specific time frame (refund of deposit). Basically, if you can afford to wait or rent (do so, your husband is right), the numbers just don't work from a financial standpoint. Be sure to get clarity on costs starting in 2011, a lot of these buildings will see significant increases and it is hard to get color on each one without hiring an expensive lawyer to read each offering plan besides the fact that you have to obtain the plan first.

I meant 460 units, typo

Logic has summed it up well. Ask what (they have it on a nice spreadsheet) the costs over the next five years or until the abatement runs out. And a list of the closing costs. Do not even look at anything until they give you that.
I saw the place first then the numbers and at that point i was madly in love with the place. While it is not a cheap place to live... it amazing and that is worth something.

Thanks so much for the info Logic and RE...forewarned is forearmed. We do have the luxury of time right now, still have a house to sell and our neighborhood in Mill Basin, Bklyn is glutted with homes for sale, 160 just in our area so a R.E. agent told me.. even tho we have a beautiful home in a great neighborhood, only 13 years old, don't anticipate an easy sell with the market at the moment. But we do want to move to BPC and will explore other options. Any info on the buildings right near LL/LG? I noticed some of them are rentals. Also will will take a look-see at Vis,Mil and other while we are in the neighborhood for the appt. Thanks again .

thank you re 2009 for all of your responses,you have been very objective,however i can see that you feel you made the right decision on the visionaire.i work in grand central and most morning s head up to 86th and lex for my workouts,the 4 train is alot closer to visionare than the riverhouse.i am going to seriously consider the visionare if price is right.

mjpayo: a request after you check it out, let us know the extent of the cc's in 2011 and the taxes psf separately?

taxes are 1.2 pqf and cc are now about.6 psf .i believe in 3 yrs you wll be paying 2.4 psf.i see reports that sales have slowed considerably,i would think in part to drop in stock market,maybe now is not a good time to buy.at this point sponsors are getting overconfident in ability to close sales after stellar first 2 quarters,which i believe was driven by wealth effect created by 70% increase in stock market.i have read some reports that nyc real estate could dip again.any thoughs would be appreciated

mjpayo, you're correct about the overconfidence in mkt. they were selling fairly well and consistent 1st two qtrs. in addition to everyone being at the beach and not the city during the next 2-3 mos 3rd qtr will feel it coupled with the stock market and other factors. also BPC is tricky with their landleases and sponsor contributions/subsidies so increases will be felt in 3rd qtr pretty hefty increase in CC/PILOT

mjpayo, thank you for the info, and I agree with your color on the mrkt along with movinup1. Given looming CC/PILOT increases along with other ancillary cost increases I would expect people to focus on these monthly cash outlays as they do some research.

any new info on any of the bpc buildings

I haven't see any activity in a while on this discussion, has anyone been able to negotiate a fair purchase or have the inflated prices discouraged the average buyer?

Been on this thread previously and have been to sales office and got prices and reviewed prospectus and condo layout designs...yes. prices too inflated and with not being able to see units with buildings not finished yet..it's way too risky. Salesman told us he has sold units which I don't believe.

It's been slow....but Milsteins can always rent the apts.....

has anyone heard or seen any info on these buildings...emailed sales office personnel...no reply...?????????????????

Greengirl - Have you heard anything? I just emailed the sales office and am waiting for a response. Wondering if sales have picked up there and when the buildings are expected to open. It would be nice to see the apartments. I noticed that prices have been falling at Riverhouse over the past few months.

mls...we have been emailing sales office regularly with no response..work near the buildings and slow progress as of a couple of months ago so don't know if any units are finished and available for showing. Still scaffolding around back of Liberty Luxe. Planning another walkby soon, maybe talk to construction workersd...the're the only ones who tell you things..they told us the pricing even before we got to sales office:)

Saw LL &LG Saturday...LG lobby done but still under construction as is LL . Overheard conversation between construction workers on another site directly across the street saying a number of workers had been laid off from LL/LG...anyone hear anything else regarding these buildings?

went to the sales office a few months ago. the impression i got was that sales were very slow. i even brought up the point that they might turn rental, or part rental, and the sales person did not dispute that notion.

just read an article from Curbednyc re the liberties, seems the recent talk is the that they will be going rental but silence from the building PR, sales office when curbed tried to reach them. Same silence we've encountered. Most interesting is that my cousin also on the "VIP" list and who has been to the sales office, says she received a phone call from someone from the sales office who will be sending out an email regarding building's status....has anyone else recievd any info or any call?

Any word on if these buildings are turning rental and when they might hit the market?

Wondering the same...

Heard rumor that both buildings will be rentals.
Is there any truth to this?

From the website, it looks like they are now leasing apartments in liberty green.

According to Curbed, studios start at $3,195/month, 1BRs at $3,895/month, 2BRs at $6,150/month, and 3BRs at $8,500/month. The 2 beds are around 1100sq ft-1250 sq ft and the 3 bed around 1500 sq ft. Rents seem rather high.