continue renting?, buy?, blah blah blah...

How much would it cost you to rent a place in your nieghborhood with the 2nd bath and W/D or outdoor space?

How long do you expect to remain in your current 2 bed place with the 2 kids and 1 bath? How long do you want to stay in the neighborhood you are in? Holding period is, in my opinion, a huge factor in determining which makes more sense.

you using the times rent/own tool, www.housemath.us , or something else?

What about moving to a cheaper neighborhood where you could get a 2/2 or 2/1 with washer/dryer? That way you could have your cake and eat it too. Not like the market is going to zoom up anytime soon.

But if that's not an option, I vote for staying and continuing to save and send our your laundry. At least you have your own bedroom (rather than parents on pullout, kids in the bedroom scenario).

Why car?

We live in Brooklyn Heights & hope to be here for 10-20 years.
I can't find a 2BR/2BA rental w/W/D other than huge places for $6k rent. The closest rental I found is for $4150 in downtown Brooklyn but we really don't wanna live there.
We do have 3 W/Ds in our basement but I am hung up on my W/D-in-unit fantasy.
We have a car bc we use it about 3 weekends a month, it has bike racks, holds our 2 carseats.

I was using the times rent/own tool & this:

"A simple way to do the comparison is to look at something called the rent ratio: the purchase price of a house divided by the annual cost of renting a similar one. The number 20 provides a useful rule of thumb. When you do the math, you discover that a ratio above 20 means you should at least consider renting, especially if you may move again in the next five years or so. When the ratio is well below 20, the case for buying becomes a lot stronger."

http://www.compactappliance.com/Laundry/Appliances-Laundry,default,sc.html

Maybe your LL won't mind?

Brownstoner featured a 2/2 coop today in Brooklyn Heights. The main downside is that it is small, but it's a sweet apartment in a great location.

There:
http://www.brownharrisstevens.com/detail.aspx?id=1120740

LL, i'm not sure that you will be able to find a 2/2 in BH prime with a W/D where the maintenance will be much lower then your current rent. most coops do not allow W/D in units anyway. sending out the laundry would be the best and will save a small fortune as opposed to purchasing.

" sending out the laundry would be the best and will save a small fortune as opposed to purchasing."

Not really.

Most co-ops in Brooklyn Heights are not in doormen buildings, so now you're dealing with the coordinating-of-the-laundry-pickup-and-delivery nightmare on a weekly basis, which given the wide windows of time you have to give them, you might as well just lug the damn laundry down to the laundromat (or basement) and do it yourself in half the time.

or you could do what we do. we drop the laundry off one morning and my husband picks it up the next day on his way home.

unless you're too frail to carry a bag of laundry a block or so.

"unless you're too frail to carry a bag of laundry a block or so."

No one said anything about INABILITY to carry a bag of laundry a block or so (if you're lucky enough to live within just ONE block of the laundromat in the first place).

We're talking about avoiding the pain in the ass of having to do it in the first place. A pain in the ass that only New Yorkers seem to have to deal with, as even poor people in the rest of America have their own (large-sized, I might add) washers and dryers inside their homes.

maly, Ha--thanks for the listing link... I saw it last night & it's what spurred my thoughts on all of this. No W/D in unit but on several floors.

ab, sending out laundry sounds luxurious though I don't know if I'd want someone else washing my clothes. (I'm prob odd in this way?)

get a maid....

W67 is right: cheaper to keep renting and hire a cleaning lady to do your laundry.

"cheaper to keep renting and hire a cleaning lady to do your laundry."

But not BETTER.

Cleaning lady will never do the laundry as well as you'd do it yourself.

... nor clean your oven or fridge every three years as well as you'd just move yourself to a new place at that time so you don't need to deal with it.

My cleaning lady actually does it better. I'm a shitty folder.

Also, I took my laundry out to be done in a couple of other cities I have lived in. Despite what you might think there are other urban environments in the US.

> Cleaning lady will never do the laundry as well as you'd do it yourself.

Mine does. Granted, I'm not good at it. But I love having it taken care of for me.

Though I agree with the other assertion that sending it out is a poor subsitute for having your own. I used to do that, and scheduling pickups was a real pain in the ass without a doorman. Even with a doorman, its still a bit of a pain. Just not something I want to deal with. Bagging it up, wondering if something is in your closet or at the cleaners, bla.

When I got my W/D, I realized it sucks, but I can never go back.

"or you could do what we do. we drop the laundry off one morning and my husband picks it up the next day on his way home."

Odds of me being home before the laundry place closes... low.

as i said, just a royal pain in butt.

BS Matt. you said it would be easier to lug the laundry and do it yourself than arrange for a service to pick it up. I know you frequently lie but at least maintain some consistency.

it is zero extra effort to drop off and pick up and they wash and fold, wash much better than I do.

I'm sorry, Alan, but there's simply no excuse for not keeping your fridge and oven clean.

None.

"it is zero extra effort to drop off and pick up and they wash and fold, wash much better than I do."

Totally wrong.

It's a pain in the ass and quite a schlep to lug 30 pounds of laundry six blocks out of my way to the cleaners (provided they're open when I'm leaving the apartment for the day), and then drag it home at the end of the day (provided they're still open by the time I get home).

That is hardly "zero" effort.

I guess it's a good thing we aren't delicate flowers like you are then.

and it's literally a two-minute walk for us.

Matt, as I said, I do keep my fridge and oven clean, by moving when they get to dirty.

If you're going to send your clothes out, it's best to have two sets of everything, so they can come and just swap everything out once a week, just as the milkman does daily.

Or you can just roll your laundry right onto your elevator, out your door, and down the street to the launderette.

I'm just glad I have a dishwasher so I don't need to send my sporks out to be cleaned.

weren't you the one who referred to me as spoiled? sounds like Matt is pretty particular about his needs and wants.

I must be very lucky, my cleaning lady is awesome. Not only are her laundry skills greater than mine, she is much more consistent than I ever was. It would take me 8 hours and a whole lot of complaining to match what she does cheerfully in 4.5 hours. And she cleans the fridge and oven every other month or so.

> it is zero extra effort to drop off and pick up and they wash and fold, wash much better than I do.

It is not zero effort. Hell, the effort is even in the terms you described.

I love that others fold, but the dropping off and picking up is definitely an effort, and I'd pay not to have to do it. Not to mention bagging it, separating out what shouldn't be washed, etc.

"it's literally a two-minute walk for us."

Good for you.

For the rest of "us", it can be as long as an extra hour our of our way, all told.

"Not to mention bagging it, separating out what shouldn't be washed, etc."

And then of course, there's the instructions that they never follow at the cleaner's (since most of them don't understand English), like pre-treating stains, using vinegar instead of harsh chemical fabric softener, adding the whitening agent, which stuff not to put in the dryer, etc.

hell swe, we go to the gym every day. carrying a bag of laundry to a location that is directly on the way doesn't seem like much of an effort to me. I had a housekeeper do it for 10 years and I had my own w/d and this really doesn't put us out at all. but I guess if it seems burdensome it must be.

my husband also walks to and from work. which doesn't seem like much effort to him either but seems to astonish many.

It's not like I suggested taking the laundry with some soap and the washboard down to the river.

"I must be very lucky, my cleaning lady is awesome. Not only are her laundry skills greater than mine, she is much more consistent than I ever was."

Yeah, I guess Matt was a Gap employee. Cleaning lady is 100x better than me.

also, its not just the effort, its having to remember when the laundry needs to be picked up, and if you have a later meeting, whatever.

Just one more think I like to pay someone else to have to worry about.

I could book my own travel, too, but some of us have better things to do with our time.

"carrying a bag of laundry to a location that is directly on the way doesn't seem like much of an effort to me."

Provided, of course, that you're lucky enough to have the cleaner's be "on the way" to wherever you're going. Otherwise, it's OUT of the way.

"my husband also walks to and from work. which doesn't seem like much effort to him either "

Simply walking to work is not the same thing as taking a half-hour detour lugging 30 pounds of laundry on your shoulders.

also, with dropping off and picking up, sometimes you're waiting a bit for the guy to help the other customer, bla bla.

swe you clearly have not used such services. you can pick up whenever you want. it doesn't have to be a specific day. I presume it wouldn't be too difficult to recall that you had laundry out? they give you a receipt you can put in your wallet.

Matt, yes, but we can't buy an apartment for $1000 per month after taxes in our full-of-services neighborhood.

Thx u maly.

To op, I've got even a better idea. Why don't you treat your wife to more than 1 pair of that circa 1995 victoria secret thong and get yourself more than one wife-beater this weekend at costco. Bulk Sherpa your maid comprendo?

Why am I the only genius on se? Why ;).

"To op, I've got even a better idea. Why don't you treat your wife to more than 1 pair of that circa 1995 victoria secret thong and get yourself more than one wife-beater this weekend at costco. Bulk Sherpa your maid comprendo?"

Wow.

Must be nice to have so much closet and dresser space that you can DOUBLE your wardrobe!

How much space does your thong take up Matt?

lincolnlogs, it sounds like your rental deal would be hard to beat. it's tough feeling cramped for space but prices have been very sticky in bh. if you can tough it out I think waiting would be wise.

LincolnLogs, I know of a 2bd/1ba pre-war condo in Cobble Hill with an in-unit W/D that isn't listed yet (but will be listed soon). Let me know if you want more info.

w67th, just a guess but I'd say not much

"swe you clearly have not used such services. you can pick up whenever you want. it doesn't have to be a specific day."

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I used this service exclusively for 3 years. 2 different places. Never went to the laundry room myself in that period (maybe once in an out of socks emergency).

"I presume it wouldn't be too difficult to recall that you had laundry out? they give you a receipt you can put in your wallet. "

I am actually thrilled that I don't have to keep the receipt anymore (or sign that damn book).

But, yes, absolutely, always remembering the day its ready, and then remembering at the moment you come off the train or pass by to head that direction, etc.

Just one more thing I didn't like having to keep track of.

Or getting there a few minutes after closing.

I'm not sure why you think otherwise, but I did it for years, it was actually near by train stop, and I am thrilled to the lord I don't have to do it anymore.

btw, awesome screen name LL.

I do enjoy the laundry debate when it occurs from time to time.

aboutready.. :)

Love a good WD versus 1/2 bath debate even more!

We have a cleaning lady, once a week $65 (1 bed and 1 bath) and $20 for the laundy, (I think she pockets $3.50 a week from the laundry money, but what isn't taxed nowadays). Every Sat/Sun when I see the laundry brigades going up and down the elevator, I praise my wife for killing the cheapskate inside of me. Hence, I have no dreams of W/D in the unit.

I say you stay put, get a maid and find a new dream, like a Viking Stove with grill/deep fry unit and a ventillation hood. (That's my dream, but you can share it).

swe, thanks for screen name compliment.
w67th, re the wife/thong idea -- just to clarify -- I'm a woman.
Tallisman, I have a Viking dream as well, as we are currently rocking a Caloric in our kitchen -- though I love the brand name.

LL, in cyber-world.. you are what I want you to be :)

Wow, a fight between NYCMatt, aboutready and somewhereelse about bringing laundry to the cleaners.

What will streeteasy attract next?

The three of you are pathetic and this is only the most recent example. You are probably even all related somehow.

in their defense... laundry is a PITA

and what is a PITA?

I hate doing laundry. I hate it when I have my own W/D, housekeeper or not. If the housekeeper does it, perfect folding, but occasional clothing sacrifices. If I do it, no clothes ruined, but I don't fold - just shove it in some drawers somewhere, or they lie in the clean basket, I'll rummage to get what I need (we all have our own individual clean baskets). If I don't have my own W/D, laundry just gets done more infrequently, piles are bigger. If I send out laundry, it stays in the clear plastic bags, and I'll just use them as rummage piles for clean clothes, only they're not sorted by person, so I make a huge mess.

High class problems.

i hate laundry too. with a passion. my cleaning lady is better at folding than me. my domestic skills apply only to cooking and childcare. fortunately, my husband is happy with this.

I've lived in FiDi, Chelsea, Brooklyn Heights, and Midtwon West.

In every apartment I have had over the last 11 years I found a fluff n fold that did pick up and delivery.

WTF do you people live that you have to schlepp your own?

boerumhill, i don't HAVE to schlepp my own. i choose to because it's easier as i don't have a doorman. laundry is a PITA, but at least one doesn't HAVE to be a slave to the spin cycle here.

lintintin, if it bothers you, ignore it. talk about pathetic. romary, funny. it beats rent/buy if only as a change of pace.

"The three of you are pathetic and this is only the most recent example. You are probably even all related somehow."

Yes, tintin, we're all actually YOU.

How can anyone try to argue that lugging your laundry to and from the cleaners is just as easy as pick up and delivery or having a cleaning service do it for you?

More circumspection?

"How can anyone try to argue that lugging your laundry to and from the cleaners is just as easy as pick up and delivery or having a cleaning service do it for you? "

Well, I agree on the having it done for you by cleaning service. Thats a no-brainer, no matter how much folks want to argue. Doing nothing vs. packing up and carrying a large bag 2x per week, no matter how close, is an effort. We can argue on big/small/tiny/huge/whatever, but its an effort.

In terms of pick-up and delivery, I agree its less work if you have a doorman. If you don't, and you have to schedule it, its a royal pain.

Is it really that much more onerous than carrying a couple of heavy bags of groceries home? how much effort is it to walk a block with a bag.

you guys belong in the suburbs. if I were infirm I'd call and have it picked up, I certainly have the time. but it amazes me that you really think this is such an effort.

swe, just spend less time typing.

You can just install a 70 lb. washer and be done with it:
http://www.wascomat.net/docs/sect03/inst_exwashers.jsp

don't tell your landlord/board

"Is it really that much more onerous than carrying a couple of heavy bags of groceries home?"

A little. The grocery bags you can split up in hands

And I don't do a lot of that either. Fresh direct rules. And then I probably go once apiece to greenmarket and whole foods, but thats more for enjoyment, and we're talking about throwing a couple items in a bag.

"how much effort is it to walk a block with a bag. "

odds of it being a block?

And if its a 10 or 15 pound bag (or more). I remember lots of places having 8 lb minimums and such.

> swe, just spend less time typing.

I'm a fast typist.

and you can do that while doing other things.

And its fun and easy.

Laundry isn't.

I hated having a w/d in the apartment. back then I did laundry and THAT was a lot of effort. although I would have liked one when child was a baby.

I'll still take doing it myself over having to drag the bag in the middle of winter...

but, thats what cleaning people are for!

can't beat you throwing it in a pile, and it magically ending up clean and folded in your dresser.

yeah, i went from dragging the bag (and sometimes delivery) to the W/D in apartment...

and I don't think I can ever go back.

ok alanhart, you come to the pathetic people's laundry rescue. You weren't even involved in the discussion about laundry, but you defend them.

aboutready you are the most pathetic. I think somewhereelse just likes to argue and NYCMatt just likes to stir things up, but you are actually emotionally involved in the laundry. Does it help to bring the family together because you turn it in and then your husband picks it up? What a happy marriage! Yay! families who bring laundry to the laundromat together stay together! Yay laundry!

Lighten up Francis.

lintintin, you remind me of someone. wow, hard to believe someone could be angry that a couple takes their laundry in together. I wonder how you react to real atrocities?

washer dryer in the apartment is a real convenience/money saver. Compare this to spending endless quarters/fees in the communal washer/dryer or worse sending out. Could be thousands of dollars a year. Plus if you use the communal washer dryer adn it's not in perfect shape, you may not really be cleaning your clothes. And let's not forget about the lost socks or wasted time.

tintin,

I want to offer you my sincere apology for coming to the pathetic people's laundry rescue. I have to admit that I wasn't even involved in the discussion about laundry, but I defended them.

You are right and I am wrong.

Mea culpa.

Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

i dunno, alan, do you ask a rattlesnake for forgiveness when it bites you?

> aboutready you are the most pathetic.

Let me see... which is more pathetic. Folks who spend their time talking about X topic... or the folks who spend all day talking about the folks who are talking about X topic.

"washer dryer in the apartment is a real convenience/money saver. Compare this to spending endless quarters/fees in the communal washer/dryer or worse sending out. Could be thousands of dollars a year. Plus if you use the communal washer dryer adn it's not in perfect shape, you may not really be cleaning your clothes. And let's not forget about the lost socks or wasted time."

Yeah, I factored saving $50 in laundry costs per month into my new rent, and that was being conservative.

Who do I remind you of? Better not be some racist comment.

Did you also factor in saving $50 in laundry costs into the new rent? Good thing the stock market is up this year, otherwise you might be living on edge.

What racist comment did you have in mind?

you too?

Time to call it a day, rin tin tin.

lintintin...... Chinese shepard?

> Did you also factor in saving $50 in laundry costs into the new rent?

And not needing the unlimited metrocard.... and $100 a month in cabs... and a few other things.

> Good thing the stock market is up this year, otherwise you might be living on edge.

How do you think I got all the money to put into the stock market in the first place? I guess you never read millionaire next door...

guess you never read millionaire next door...

Living in a full service condo...
its not just the $50+ monthly savings in laundry(more for families)
$100+monthly savings in gym memberships(more for families)
$50+monthly savings in lower energy costs
$200+ a year in handymen costs
lower cable bills...
$real estate taxes are deductible

it adds up.

but when one considers how everyone needs a $100+ monthly i-phone plan guess
no big deal.

I know guys at the yacht club spend $10K on a hooker in vegas and bitch about their $50K/yr alimony... your point being?

Oh and i know this guy.... who bitches and moans about how our gov't is wasting his tax dollars while he cashes his social security chks like clock work every month.... mercy on the mailman who is a minute late....

> Living in a full service condo...
> its not just the $50+ monthly savings in laundry(more for families)
or rental building, got that too..
> $100+monthly savings in gym memberships(more for families)
yup
> $50+monthly savings in lower energy costs
I barely have to turn mine on, advantage of living in brand spankin new efficient buildings

> $200+ a year in handymen costs
got that too

plus, cost of repair/replacement of appliances, zip

All that, and paying about half what it would cost to carry the mortgage!

that really adds up.

I just did a search on "yacht" and found this
"I know guys at the yacht club spend $10K on a hooker in vegas and bitch about their $50K/yr alimony... your point being? "

So that's what goes on at the yacht club. Good company you keep.
What goes on at the Porsche dealership?
Or the Rolex shop?
Or the gym where you squat? (squatz)

"I know guys at the yacht club spend $10K on a hooker in vegas and bitch about their $50K/yr alimony... your point being? "

They probably got more love out of the hooker...

@corumbiacounty

Thanks asshole

don't you mean arsehole? you're rathetic.

No, I'm not some annoying pompous pale Brit with a stuck up accent and bad spelling and worse teeth. I call people assholes. Like you.

Have you ever considered Park Slope? Great school districts, great park for the kids, high quality of life. Washer/dryer in your apartment... >900 SF

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/483509-coop-420-sterling-place-park-slope-brooklyn

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/432525-condo-390-14th-street-park-slope-brooklyn

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/515517-coop-372-8th-street-park-slope-brooklyn

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/497483-condo-362-12th-street-park-slope-brooklyn

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/517721-coop-423-15th-street-park-slope-brooklyn

Your payments will be about 3K a month and you will have your washer/dryer, you can park on the street so no garage necessary.

Linty? R u calling ar an asshole? Then you need a comma. Personally hate misplaced modifiers, very confusing to the reader.

So it Should be.

'like you, asshole. '

You are welcome.

Idiot

It's funny how people try to justify not having a W/D, which is considered a basic amenity in any house or apartment in the rest of the country. My crappy $600/month apartment in the midwest had its own W/D.

If you have a W/D, you can still have your maid do the laundry, and still take it to the cleaners... but you have the option not to.

There's something about having poor people do my laundry that strikes me as being wrong--I guess it's because I didn't grow up rich like most people who live in NYC.

Whats the source for that 20x rent multiple? Try 15x. Honestly, it doesnt seem credible that you cant find a rental to meet your needs. My sense is the only time it gets tough to find a rental is when you want certain finishes and a large (3 bed or more) apartment.

Why don't you look at 580 Carroll Street. they have washer and dryers....www.580carroll.com