Which do you choose for $2 million?

wow, no opinions for this lady? sorry Rose don't know manhattan 2+ mil market.

It depends on whether you want to live in New York or not.

there are many factors that go into your decision.

1 - Are the properties in similar condition?
2 - Do you want to live in a house with a backyard or it does not matter to you.
3 - Is getting to work approximately the same time?
4 - Where are your friends/family living?
5 - Do you do a lot of internet shopping and need the doorman?

I'd expect that the Park Slope brownstone will cost less per month. If it has a rental unit, it will cost significantly less. After you can answer the questions above, you'll have a better idea of where you want to live. Both neighborhoods have parks, restaurants and bars, so that will not be a concern.

see Rose there's some good people ready to help here @ SE.....

I would think kids and schools and commute to work would also be factors here, as well as one's capacity, as far as time and energy, to take care of a house. So Rose, I'd say there's not enuf info to vote.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Brownstone, if you have the school situation sorted, and the commute is not too onerous.

Thanks for the comments. I don't really have two specific properties to compare yet. I've been looking for the last 2 years. I guess the main issue is that I really like both Park Slope and the UWS; I've lived on the UWS for the last 10 years. I'm not sure about which option--a brownstone in Park Slope, or a 2BR apartment in Manhattan (smallish 3BR)-- is the better long-term investment. I'm also struggling with that whole leaving Manhattan thing. I love Manhattan; I love the crowds, the 24-hour supermarkets and restaurants, the noise. But I really like Park Slope too! Love the neighborhood feel, the brownstones, the more relaxed vibe. Commute to work is not that big of a deal, as I work in midtown, and don't mind an extra 20 minutes added to my subway ride. No kids, yet (but I guess the choices in this case would be between PS 87 & PS 321). Don't care about doorman; yard would be nice, but not a deal breaker. I'm torn.

I guess it boils down to whether you would choose a smaller space and stay in Manhattan, or for the same money, get a whole brownstone in prime Brooklyn. What would you do? Is one a better investment than the other?

I live on and love the UWS, but I would probably vote brownstone if
1) its truly PRIME Park Slope (which I know ZILCH about) and you really love the area
2) big enough to be the "last place you'll buy" (a long term place suitable for kids)

I have little ones in a 2 convertible 3 and starting to look at moving again, but struggling with where to go (burbs vs larger apt).

If you live in it, its not an investment, by definition. I'd get that out of the conversation.
You choose where you want to live.

Personally, I used to like the idea of brownstone, but I'm not up for the upkeep and lack of amenities. A lot of costs add up there. We also pay lots more than other cities to live here... I figure if we do that, its to be closer to "the stuff". So I'd rather not compromise and be a commute from Manhattan. I'd go with Manhattan, but thats a personal choice.

We recently made a similar decision (although it was between Park Slope and UES) and decided on UES. Ultimately, the decision came down to much easier commute from the UES, schools, parking (parking is a bitch in Park Slope), and a general desire to stay in the pulse of Manhattan. Even though it may not be a long commute, something about crossing the river is going to make you less inclined to do anything in the City.

I think exactly where on the UWS versus where in Park Slope can also make a difference. Are we talking on Propect Park versus West End Avenue or conversely on CPW versus 5th or 6th Avenue?

"something about crossing the river is going to make you less inclined to do anything in the City. "

Totally, 100%. And not just you, for Manhattan folks to come visit. Its a huge mental barrier. And a physical one when there are train problems.

>>Totally, 100%. And not just you, for Manhattan folks to come visit. Its a huge mental barrier

The UWS is already a barrier in itself for some people to come up and visit.

I don't disagree... but for folks like that, the river can be 5x the barrier.
But this is someone who obviously likes and spends time in the UWS.

Personally, I'd choose neither (cobble hill over PS, UES or really anything houston to 30th over UWS)

What's with the hate for the UWS? I think it's one of the most understated and unpretentious neighborhoods in the city, aside from the obvious positives (beauty, museums, riverside park, central park, shopping, subways).

i would decide where i wanted to live first.

>> What's with the hate for the UWS?
What hate? I love and live on the UWS.

"And a physical one when there are train problems."

Which is every single day on the calendar, outside of morning and evening rush hour.

btw - what is prime park slope? is it along the park? we tried to find it one day (based on sight alone) and were very confused/disappointed.

There is prime and there is prime. If you along Prospect Park West and go south from Gr. Army Plaza, that's prime "residential" on the parkside blocks. Prime "commercial" is much farther west.

None of the above. I'd more into an apartment overlooking Gramercy Park (50 GPN remains out of the question since apts there are going for $5MM). Charming, close to everything and if school becomes an issue PS 40 is awesome.
I owned a house for a couple of years, loved the structure, space and detail (1926 Tudor with all original fixtures/woodwork) but upkeep just not in my DNA. Leaves, snow, are not things I want to have to consider.

If you own a brownstone in Park Slope, you can outsource leaves & snow for 150/month.

How much to outsource fixing the old boiler? Window repair? bla bla. A LOT of stuff that can add up.

I'm with liz, I'll take the 20s over either choice.

SWE: a heck of a lot less than mtce/month. A brand new boiler isn't that much amortized over its working life, ditto windows. But yeah, if I had 20m, I'd consider a TH on Gramercy Park.

> SWE: a heck of a lot less than mtce/month

Jeez, its the same thing.

Maintenance = mortgage, services, taxes.

Difference is, thrilled to let someone else be responsible! People get PAID to be the one calling the repairman, setting up contracts, dealing with the folks, scheduling.

If you have to do all that yourself as a homeowner, it SHOULD be cheaper.

Me and liz just seem to be very happy to let someone else do it.

Also, it's good for the economy to have more money circulating in the form of kickbacks from vendor to property managers and supers. YOUR money.

I still like the PS brownstone. If you are planning to stay in NYC "forever" and you get a triplex over garden rental, you can easily move from the triplex to garden floor once the kids leave. Taxes are low (and 1-2-3 fams in NYC benefit from capped taxes). You are in charge of mtce, not just saving $, but doing it right. Of course, the most carefree way to live is to RENT.

rose - can't you do better than 2br (or smallish 3) for 2.2 million ????

in uws

i think i just looked at a 7 or 8 room on cpw for around 2.5

this one
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/406627-condo-291-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

Living in Manhattan is like chosing a profession in the Arts. Why would you choose to be a singer/actor/dancer/painter unless you felt like it was the only psycho/social/emotional choice you could possibly make? Any, more traditional job, would involve much less heartache. Manhattan dwelling is similar. Hoenstly, if you feel like you "could" live elsewhere, you probably should :)

> Any, more traditional job, would involve much less heartache

The analogy falls short. You still pay TONS of money to be living in prime Park Slope. If you don't really want to be there, why pay relatively astronomical sums for it? If its not really what you want, why pay so much for it.

To me, the analogy is really being into music, but going into dance because you can work 10% less and still make no money at it.

here's a great location in PS for restaurants, park (2 blocks) and schools.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/479939-house-506-3rd-street-park-slope-brooklyn
after all the rent that you'll collect, you'll have money left over.

here's one if don't want to do any work and deal with tenants.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/507846-townhouse-583-7th-street-park-slope-brooklyn

uwsmom--nice apartment. Thanks ab_11218. I've seen the 7th street house. And I kind of agree with your last comment, somewhereelse, which is why I'm so torn.

So, for example, between the Central Park West apartment @ $2.69 million
http://www.brownharrisstevens.com/detail.aspx?id=1010026

And this brownstone on President Street in Park Slope for the same price, $2.69 million (already in contract, but I did see it)
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1947314&ohDat=

...which would you choose, assuming you like both locations equally. Is it just better to always buy in Manhattan?

The CPW apartment versus the Park Slope brownstone means over $17,000/yr MORE in carrying costs: $5K/yr more in taxes, and over $12,000/yr in maintenance. Also, less sq footage and no income possibilities. But, it is a doorman building in Manhattan and it is on CPW (not too high up, @89th). I think at that point it's about whether the extra $17,000/yr cost is doable and worth it to you to live in Manhattan. And personal choice, mainly, too. I don't know.

ny212 - Where are you getting $12K more per year in maintenance? Are you assuming there will be no annual maintenance costs to upkeep this townhouse? I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure there will be. And if you need to replace a roof or do some other significant repair, my guess would be it would far exceed $12K.

They both have their pros and cons - this is a personal preference and, as you can see from the vast array of opinions, everyone is going to have a different one. Personally, for the reasons mentioned earlier, I would choose the CPW apartment. Location location location and CPW is pretty much the gold standard of that statement (albeit this is a bit north of prime CPW).

rose - all else being equal (financials, neighborhood, etc), i would choose a brownstone - for ease, privacy, autonomy, and space.

joepa, right on.

I'll add, I'd gladly pay most of that $$$ for the doorman, the porters taking out the garbage, the maintenance crew, for the elevator, for the AMENITIES, for the views, and most of all, for not having to lift a finger except to ask someone else to deal with something.

So depressing. To be at a place where it's cool to brag about not lifting a finger.

I'll take Rocky Road, please. On second thought, make that Mocha Almond Fudge. Oh, wait....... I didn't see that Oreo cookies and cream...........

> So depressing. To be at a place where it's cool to brag about not lifting a finger.

Only so I can lift fingers on the things I want to lift fingers on.

If folks enjoy shoveling snow, painting their houses, taking out garbage, whatever, great for them. My time personally is worth more than that and I don't particularly love it...

I'd rather pay someone else to do it so I can do better things... like drink myself silly.

Or, just financially, can't you do better at work than the couple bucks you're effectively paying to have the garbage taken out for you?

So...what's your position on wiping your own ass? Time better spent on other things? It's sad.

I don't know about you, but I don't feel like letting anyone touch my ass unless they're hot enough to sleep with...
but you have to make your own choices.

Do you make your own toilet paper?

What's your position on that?

You don't get it?

5W went for 2.25 in Oct '09. probably needed work compared to 4W (asking 2.69). You should be able to do better than a 2 br with your budget.

How about a Brownstone in Harlem with lotsa ca$h to stash for the rainy day. Private School Tuition and Transportation--PAID!!

It all comes down to what resonates with you most. I love Park Slope. I chose to buy there because it felt somehow less transient and more neighborhood-y to me than the UWS. Prospect Park is fantastic, and there's a large farmer's market and a great restaurant scene. And I hardly feel like I've somehow "given up" Manhattan -- I'm there 5 or 6 days a week for work. And when I return to gorgeous, relatively laid-back Park Slope, I swear I can feel my blood pressure drop.

For truly "prime" residential PS, take a stroll up and down some of the named streets like Carroll, Montgomery Place, and Garfield between 7th Ave and the Park. (These houses will cost you more than $2 mil, though.) If you want to be zoned for PS 321 stay between Union and I think 4th Street.

True that it's hard to find solace in Manhattan...too many visitors like tourists and residents from Brooklyn

Go to brooklyn if you want peace since not as much reason to visit

brooklyn is nice, no offense, but there's no comparison to ny city living

F train sucks. It's not an extra 20 minutes. More like 40, each way, when the train works.

Would you rather have $2 million of gold or $2 million of silver?
Also, which weighs more, 1 pound of gold, or 1 pound of silver?

or a 1 pound of pounds?

Brownstone in ParkSlope without a doubt.

Upper west side is too crowded for family life.

I'd rather have a pound of gold.

How is it that someone with $2M to spend can't decide where to live on her own?

BECAUSE she has 2M to spend!!