For those who want it all except to pay for it

Wow, Roggerst. Good timing!

Riversider, do you mean to tell me that Maryland experienced a decrease in million-plus filers, in the very same year that the economy totally tanked and money became much harder to come by? It's so hard to believe that could happen. Fortunately no mention of the same thing happening in Virginia. No mention at all.

"retirees are the most obvious example"

Untrue. If it were true, there'd be a rush to move to New Jersey, where you can withdraw your 401k money free of state income tax. So you put it in your 401k in NY tax free, and take it out in NJ tax free.

RS, that is truly a stupid post - trying to claim that the decrease in the number of millionaires in the worst recession ever was due to a "fleecing of the rich." Although I'm doing quite well and have made about a 70% return on my investments in the past 12 months - almost 50% so far this year - I'm still not where I was when the Dow was at 14,000.

Northrop Grumman is Headed to Virginia

by Rob Shrum

It looks like Virginia finally won the Northrop Grumman Sweepstakes. According to State Tax Today (subscription required), on Monday, Northrop Grumman announced that it would be moving its corporate headquarters to northern Virginia. Maryland, Virginia, and the District of Columbia were immersed in an aggressive regional competition to lure the corporation's headquarters into their respective jurisdictions. In regards to the reason Virginia was chosen, Wes Bush, CEO and president of Northrop Grumman remarked, "Our final decision was driven largely by facility considerations, proximity to our customers, and overall economics."

Virginia will become home to Northrop Grumman's corporate headquarters (and the 300 jobs that come with it) in part due to a yet-to-be-finalized incentive package from the Virginia Economic Development Partnership. (Currently a $12-14 million package—in comparison to DC's offered tax break package of $25 million) We often argue such incentives are ineffective at sustained economic development overall. These types of incentives are also unfair to resident businesses that have to stand by and watch as the state's economic development office rolls out the red carpet of tax exemptions for newcomers.

On the flip side of the coin, it is likely that DC and Maryland lost out partly because of their regionally uncompetitive corporate and individual income tax rates. In specific regards to Maryland, businesses and their CEOs undoubtedly consider the state's abnormally high rates, especially the millionaire's tax rate, when deciding where to locate their business and homes. As we have frequently noted, regional competition does matter and Maryland continues to find that out the hard way.

In addition to showing millionaires the door, Maryland is continuing to direct corporations south.

More on the District of Columbia here.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/26258.html

How foolish it is that a defense-contracting company would move its headquarters nearer to the Pentagon and the CIA.

Riversider, you get funnier by the day!

"Virginia will become home to Northrop Grumman's corporate headquarters (and the 300 jobs that come with it) in part due to a yet-to-be-finalized incentive package from the Virginia Economic Development Partnership. [...] On the flip side of the coin, it is likely that DC and Maryland lost out partly because of their regionally uncompetitive corporate and individual income tax rates."

This from an organization that says that it supports:

"Broad Bases and Low Rates: As a corollary to the principle of neutrality, lawmakers should avoid enacting targeted deductions, credits and exclusions. If such tax preferences are few, substantial revenue can be raised with low tax rates. Broad-based taxes can also produce relatively stable tax revenues from year to year."

and:

"Neutrality: The fewer economic decisions that are made for tax reasons, the better. The primary purpose of taxes is to raise needed revenue, not to micromanage the economy. The tax system should not favor certain industries, activities, or products."

So here you have an organization that is boasting the Goodness of Virginia's tax incentives while at the same time saying that it stands for No Tax Incentives.

Asinine.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/about/

It's just common sense. Someone in the Tri-State area will weigh taxes when deciding to live in Greenwich vs West Chester, or pick your another two choices. I have no doubt that a decision on living in Maryland vs Virginia has a tax component to it.

RS - taxes have some effect on some people's decisions, but so do what you get for the taxes. Such as good schools on Long Island.

It's not an absolute - if it were, everybody would move to Alaska where not only don't people pay tax, but they get paid by the government to live there there.

And everybody would move out of Hawaii.

I lived in both Maryland and Virginia (and DC for that matter) for many years. One key reason for moving to Virginia is the transportation is better to the business & government areas of DC, not to mention that more government offices are located in Virginia than in Maryland.

San Jose, CA is very expensive. It wasn't when my grandmother was born there - nobody lived there then. Now it's a destination of choice, despite the taxes.

Why? Because there is a critical mass of related industries, and a good lifestyle. In NYC property taxes on single-family houses is much lower than for apartments, yet I don't see an outflux of people to Bedford Stuyvesant.

Do you?

This is very timely, RS, which debunks your Tax Crap:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37479021/ns/business-forbescom/

The best city in the world to live in is...

VIENNA

Followed by Zurich and Geneva.

All TAX HAVENS, right?

HAHAHAHA!

The best city ranked in the US?

HONOLULU.

In the most expensive state in the country: Hawaii.

The worst city in the world?

Baghdad.

With very low taxes.

And then, "with San Francisco tying Adelaide, Australia. Boston came in at No. 37, Chicago and Washington, D.C. tied for 45th place, and New York ranked 49. Philadelphia and Dallas were ranked for the first time this year, landing spots 55 and 61 on the list, respectively."

Hmm. Dallas - no state income tax - ranking below New York, with high income tax?! How can that be!

New York is way down at 49th? We better start upping our taxes to sustainable levels. Or we'll wind up tied with Calcutta. Or whatever they call it these days ... who can keep track?

Calcutta has VERY LOW TAXES, AH. I think we need to lower our tax rates so, say, we can, uhm, not clean the cow manure off the streets so often.

Calcutta - here we come.

And den dey eat da poo poo!

Are there any other libertarians on the UWS besides me?

julia....its all you.

Not so much, CC. She's in Indiana.

Arncha, finallyjulialg?

Great article in the Nyt on the Paul family today. Not the usual socialist smear job. I really want to start a libertarian group in the heart of the welfare state.{UWS)

welll....create another 10 identities here and then you can all meet and discuss how foolish you are.

Ron Paul brings a healthy perspective to the debate on Fed Transparency, fiscal responsibility and government over-reach. That said the United States cannot embark on a policy of isolationism, so we need to recognize that his ideas have limits and cannot be applied to our country in a pure form.

Ron Paul doesn't know what he's talking about. His views of economics are slightly behind Adam Smith's. He claims that according to the constitution the government only has a right to mint coins, not to print paper money.

Fiscal responsibility is a grand thing - it's what should have happened when the economy was running smoothly in the first decade of this century. You know, don't start an unfunded war, don't lower tax rates when it's not needed, etc., etc. But when nobody is spending any money, the only thing stopping a depression and deflation is government deficit spending and transfer payments. It's not only intuitive, it's empirically proved.

But R.P. denies all of that. Again, read the economic history of the 1800's, get back to me about booms and busts, which is what all of this is designed to prevent. Until Voodoo Economics started to undo it all.

Excuse me while I take two aspirin for that Keynsian hangover. Problem with Keynes is it works till it doesn't work...

Isn't it obvious that people that people must not procreate unless/until they can afford it?
Or put your spawn on a credit card. That should do it.
And a credit card cut off is at $3000.

Blame the animal spirits

"Problem with Keynes is it works till it doesn't work..."

Alas, so untrue. The only thing that neoclassical economists ever claimed that didn't work with Keynes was high tax rates - but Keynes never argued in favor of high tax rates, and in fact advised against them.

Your arguments are all over the place as usual, RS: you quote a tax policy institute that lauds Virginia for giving an individual tax subsidy to a defense contractor while simultaneously claiming they oppose individual tax subsidies. You claim price-push inflation when monetarists like yourself and Ron Paul hold that inflation is a purely monetary phenomenon. You're against transfer payments but I'm sure if you were unemployed you'd take your money. And you'll take your Social Security and Medicare while railing against socialized medicine. You say the government bad and incompetent yet you rely on it for your national defense - arguably the most important thing we have: our safety. You claim that low taxes are always good and high taxes are always bad when it is empirically proved to be nonsense: the richest places in the world have the highest taxes!

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. You argue things that appeal to you emotionally, yet when taken as a whole don't make any sense. Just like the Tea-Partiers don't make any sense. It sounds nice and feels good, but much of what you want only works in a sparsely populated rural, unmechanized slave-owning environment, aka Thomas Jefferson. A modern economy can't survive like that - it's far, far too complicated.

The only morally just function of government is protection of individual liberty and private property. The government should protect against the crimminals. Social Security, Medicare and any transfer payments are immoral and theft. The government takes by force property from one to give to another. Unethical and immoral and crimminal. Laissez faire capitalism and an objective rule of law used to be the American system. Now we have a social welfare crimminal state.

Yes - and Obama is simultaneously a fascist AND a communist, and the best way to get healthcare is by bartering for it with chickens.

What say you, Riversider?

No, the leader of the regime is a marxist.

I say, health care costs are out of control and that Obama caved in front of the trial laywers who just have too much power.

Fascist no, communist no, socialist..to an extent.

Obama is neither but fascism and a communism are pretty much the same. The mouth and the tail of the same snake (the tail is IN the mouth).
But what about striving to improve self? No? Just go rob the rich? Didn't work in the last place that tried it.

Salut.. You are absolutely correct about fascism and communism. Both are centralized big government control. The opposite of Nazi and Communist is free market capitalism.

"Both are centralized big government control."

You need to learn what fascism is really all about - Big Business, no central control. Sorry.

"Obama caved in front of the trial laywers who just have too much power"

How's about dem health insurance companies? The most efficient and effective healthcare delivery system is single-payer, without a doubt.

Whenever steve says something is empirically proven, you know he is completely wrong, as usual.

High taxes don't affect economic growth? Wrong again steve!

http://www.nber.org/digest/mar08/w13264.html
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/MarginalTaxRates.html

Numerous studies, ably surveyed by Karabegovic et. al. (2004), have found that high marginal tax rates reduce people’s willingness to work up to their potential, to take entrepreneurial risks, and to create and expand a new business: “The evidence from economic research indicates that ... high and increasing marginal taxes have serious negative consequences on economic growth, labor supply, and capital formation” (p. 15).

Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis senior adviser Edward Prescott, corecipient of the 2004 Nobel Prize in economics, found that the “low labor supplies in Germany, France, and Italy are due to high [marginal] tax rates” (Prescott 2004, p. 7). He noted that adult labor force participation in France has fallen about 30 percent below that of the United States, which accounts for the comparably higher U.S. living standards.

Lifetime family work effort and entrepreneurship are not the only things affected. Nobel laureate Robert Lucas emphasized the deleterious effect on economic growth of high tax rates on capital. Philip Trostel focused on the impact on human capital, finding that high marginal tax rates on labor income reduce the lifetime reward from investing time and money in education. There are evidently many channels through which high marginal tax rates may discourage additions to personal income, and thus also discourage marginal additions to national output (i.e., economic growth).

finallyjoy, the opposite of nazi and communism is DEMOCRACY, PLURALISM and FREE PRESS. Capitalism is not an ideology but a financial system.
stevejhx, you are an idiot. It's not an offense but statement of the fact.

Read it again, LICC:

"When they consider the two types of exogenous tax changes separately, Romer and Romer find suggestive evidence that tax increases to reduce an inherited budget deficit have much smaller output costs than other tax increases. This is consistent with the idea that deficit-driven tax increases may have important expansionary effects through expectations and long-term interest rates, or through confidence."

That's what we're talking about here, isn't it? We're not talking about 90% tax rates.

And to add insult to the Long Island City Injury, this from that bastion of left-wing economics, CNBC:

Want to Get out of Debt? Copy Canada: Jim O'Neill

""Canada “is a shining example to the rest of the world,” on how to bounce back from the recession, O'Neill said. It avoided the sharp downturn other major advanced nations endured by limiting leverage, protecting consumers, and avoiding excessive deregulation of their financial industry."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/37450037

It's imply not black and white.

LICC - no one is claiming that higher tax rates don't slow growth. They do. What is empirically proven, however, is that wealthier nations CHOOSE higher tax rates and slower growth because the public goods derived from higher tax rates - such as cleaner streets, more days off, better healthcare - make the quality of life better. That is, what you quote about Germany and France is a conscious decision by them to live a certain way. I've never been to Germany but I have been to Switzerland many times, & it's not such a bad place to live. I'd pick there over Mississippi any day.

Seldom right and wrong again steve. Canada?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0418432720100304

OTTAWA, March 4 (Reuters) - Canada's minority Conservative government outlined plans to rein in a record-large deficit on Thursday, presenting a budget that lets it keep its grip on power for now.

Michael Ignatieff, leader of the main opposition Liberals, said Liberals would vote against the budget, but not in large enough numbers to bring the government down.

Ignatieff, who dismissed the budget as nothing more than "cuts, freezes and gimmicks," can instruct Liberal lawmakers to be absent or abstain from key confidence votes in Parliament.

How much does Switzerland need to pay for its military to keep its peace and security?

Néed does not equal want.

Switzerland is a small country with a relatively homogeneous population. Such countries can achieve a consensus from an overwhelming majority. Switzerland is not the United States.

We have 52,000 troops in japan and okinowa. I guess if we withdrew half of them, north Korea might be able to develop an a bomb. Oh wait, they already did. WTF are so many troops doing there?

It has 8 million people and huge income from its banks due to its privacy laws. Comparing it to the entire U.S., or to Mississipi, is either ignorant or disingenous.

"Switzerland is a small country with a relatively homogeneous population."

I'll let you take that back, Riversider, as soon as you admit that they speak German, French, Italian, and Romansch in Switzerland.

LICC - as I've said, deficits are exactly the right prescription during an economic downturn. To wit, from your article:

The government said the deficit in the year to March 31 will be slightly smaller than expected at C$53.8 billion ($52.2 billion), after a previous forecast a gap of C$55.9 billion.

That is partly because a two-year, C$47.2 billion economic stimulus package was slow to get started, so more spending will be pushed into 2010-11.

The government now forecasts a 2010-11 deficit of C$49.2 billion, up from C$45.3 billion predicted earlier. It expects that to narrow to C$1.8 billion by 2014-15 as the government cuts spending.

"This is a tough budget," Finance Minister Jim Flaherty told a news conference.

Flaherty said the budget would be in surplus by 2015-16, provided all went according to plan.

cc
I'm with you on this one. Time to bring those troops home. N.Korea isn't invading anyone. They have no supply chain, no food and no spare parts. No one is invading them. If you conquer them...you have to feed them. Who has bucks for that.

N.Korea has one natural resorce...
It's very slimming. Here's my plan. We take all those danger obese unemployed folks and send them to Kim's international fat camp. I'll pay for that and it will help the N.Koreans get back on their feet. I would also outsourse prisons to Li'll Kim. If it one thing those N.Koreans know how to do it's run prisons. What's about toxic waste? Gotta put it somewhere...Kim's international house of toxic waste. N.Korea could become the world's 'Not in my back yard' storage facility.

Yes, time for the United States to cede all political influence in the region to the Chinese. The Japanese, South Koreans, Taiwanese all want the United States there as a counter-balance to Chinese influence. Additionally this is why they are so upset with us in not promoting free trade agreements , the absence of which pushes them closer and closer to the Chinese.

Brilliant. We borrow billions from the Chinese to have our troops stand in japan where of course they don't want us. Simply brilliant.

The Chinese are the greatest capitalists in the world, Riversider, what are you talking about? And what would Ron & Rand say?

Did you see how Keynesian the Canadians are? Running up a deficit during times of economic hardship - fiscal stimulus - then closing the budget gap? Too bad George II wasn't so, uhm, capitalist.

"Who has bucks for that."

... it can be financed by levying a special tax on Long Island City condos. Because they're so certainly not about to all go bankrupt, they make an excellent source for government revenue.

steve is still stuck in the 70s with Keynesianism. All that deficit spending sure has helped the employment rate in the U.S.??

Canada's budget is breaking, socialist policies in Europe are failing, and steve still sticks to Keynes.

The Chinese model has cracks investment without increases in per capita wealth. Signs of inflation with are coming and you will see large wage increases. We've already seen that with Honda & Foxconn. And much of the gains go to State enterprises. China is impressive, but not a done deal. Hugh Hendry has some intriguing arguments on why it is a big short.

counter balance the Chinese?
If China decided on thursday that Taiwan was to be 'renationalized' the best the US could do is type a strongly worded letter. Think this country would go to bat for Taiwan? Not with boots on the ground...no way. Folks in this country would simply ask,"WTF does this have to do with me? Can I still get Chinese food delivered to my house fast?"
Tawiwan can just go Chiang Kai-sheck themselves...we're busy...cleaning pelicans.

Or...maybe we could borrow even more from the Chinese to go to war with them?

not totally true. American Navy is still superior and Nuclear Arms play a factor. As long as we're in the region We play a role. This may change in 20 years, but for now American forces in the region play a role and everyone except the Chinese want us there.

Nuclear arms play a factor? Care to explain?

Sure they want the Americans there, but they are not paying for it. I am. Once the last of the '49ers die off, Taiwan will find a way to get back to the arms of the motherland. Not to worry. The next gen of rich Chinese will own a coupla of RSB condos. Close to Juilliard after all.

Debt exploding, oil gushing, economy collapsing,market crashing and the leader of the regime is having another music party. Do you think he is feasting on kobe beef again?

All at tax payers expense. The leader, a socialist wih other people's money..

Whoops. You left out the reference to the regime.

Disagree, Military influence supports economic influence and vice versa. A big reason China is beefing up.

Tell us more about the nuclear option.

"Q: Here's my question for folks who think slight changes in marginal tax rates will drive rich people to move to another country:"

Which is why we need to raise taxes on the rich on the FEDERAL leval, this way they pay no matter where they live.

"I say, health care costs are out of control and that Obama caved in front of the trial laywers who just have too much power."

Obama also caved to the insurance companies by not having the public option and he caved to Big Pharma by not having drug importation from Canada. But all you care about are the silly lawsuits that only increase health care costs by 1% since "tort reform" is just another old and tired GOP talking point.

Would just create incentives for tax shelters and loop holes and creative accounting. All of which politicians would love since they can create these in exchange for votes.

While your idea has the merit of preventing capital flight, it would create huge disincentives for capital formation.

and by the way, I would love to know how many Conservatives would support tort reform when they are on the recieving end of a doctor's negligence.

Don't know, but it's the right thing to do.

"Social Security, Medicare and any transfer payments are immoral and theft."

So your going to turn down Medicare and Social Security when your 65, right? You will rip up your Soc Sec checks, right? RIGHT???

"How foolish it is that a defense-contracting company would move its headquarters nearer to the Pentagon and the CIA."

Why don't the defense contractors move into the Pentagon since they and the military are in bed with each other?

"Don't know, but it's the right thing to do."

So if a doctor leaves a knife inside of you and it does damage to your organs, you won't sue?

The Bushes were left of center, Clinton was left and the leader of the regime is a marxist. Debt 13 trillion dollar, annual deficit 1 trillion.Maybe we should elect Ron Paul.

regine's sounds nice; I think Maxim's sounds funner.
Whatever happened to Chico Marx?
Ron Paul was handsome when he was younger, but now he only appeals to women with severe Daddy Complexes.

So if a doctor leaves a knife inside of you and it does damage to your organs, you won't sue?

Red Herring, Tort Reform does not eliminate suing for personal damages, but it does lower health costs by reducing unnecessary tests and reducing malpractice insurance which gets passed on to patients. Incompetent Doctors would still risk losing their license to practice.

Riversider
about 1 hour ago
ignore this person
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not totally true. American Navy is still superior and Nuclear Arms play a factor. As long as we're in the region We play a role. This may change in 20 years, but for now American forces in the region play a role and everyone except the Chinese want us there.

Tell us more about your thoughts about Nuclear Arms.

cc Tell us more about your thoughts about life as a ward of the welfare state.

Julia...what made you so angry and bitter?

P.s. I support myself.

Julia...are you ok rattling the saber of nukes? What would uncle miltie think?

And finally..,what's up with the new identity?

I am not sure that Julialg =finallyjoy. You looking for a libertarian on the UWS? I am as close as they come.

Of course...check out the dogma. Verbatim.

By the way, so was I (a wanna be libertarian) when I was younger and thought I knew everything. Luck plays a much larger role than I thought then.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aa0cI64Gx.4E&pos=15

June 4 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama is poised to increase the U.S. debt to a level that exceeds the value of the nation’s annual economic output, a step toward what Bill Gross called a “debt super cycle.”

The CHART OF THE DAY tracks U.S. gross domestic product and the government’s total debt, which rose past $13 trillion for the first time this month. The amount owed will surpass GDP in 2012, based on forecasts by the International Monetary Fund. The lower panel shows U.S. annual GDP growth as tracked by the IMF, which projects the world’s largest economy to expand at a slower pace than the 3.2 percent average during the past five decades.

“Over the long term, interest rates on government debt will likely have to rise to attract investors,” said Hiroki Shimazu, a market economist in Tokyo at Nikko Cordial Securities Inc., a unit of Japan’s third-largest publicly traded bank. “That will be a big burden on the government and the people.”

Gross, who runs the world’s largest mutual fund at Pacific Investment Management Co. in Newport Beach, California, said in his June outlook report that “the debt super cycle trend” suggests U.S. economic growth won’t be enough to support the borrowings “if real interest rates were ever to go up instead of down.”

ny10023.. How close are you?

Get a room!

There must be libertarians on the UWS. Aren't there any people who hate the establishment(big government) anymore? Checks from the government really corrupt the soul.

Not close enough to you. I am against legislating morality. Welfare checks aren't so easy to end without hurting the truly innocent and without changing the culture that makes it utterly logical to not work for a living. I am for basic public healthcare Ins. ( no fertility, and rationing) as well as incentivizing birth control once you are on public benefits.

As for big gov't, I believe in getting involved to change gov't spending. And yes, cc, I know I am the product of more than a few generations of the lucky sperm/egg club.

There is a NYC libertarian convention coming up this week. I heard both libertarians in NYC will be there. I think it's being held in an elevator.

There are more birthers and 9/11 turthers in NYC than libertarians.

Blah Blah Blah
same tools, different night

Libertarians despise legislating morality . The government is now like Madoff and Co.. We are bankrupt and the ponzi scheme is about to collapse. It works until it doesn't and then ends very quickly.

It is ridiculous to argue that tort reform would only have a minimal effect on health care costs. Looking only at the dollar amount of total jury awards fails to consider the costs of defensive medicine caused by excessive judgements.

Every study says less than five per cent savings.

LIC, I agree with you, but let's assume Tort Reform would only save 5%. Why wouldn't you want to save 5% on your budget? Of course you would, only leeches who prey on the medical system would be against..

And people who have gotten screwed by bad doctors.

On another note, I saw that Helen Thomas' agency fired her for her bigoted remarks.

I've seen studies that 25% of tests done are for defensive purposes only.

Ari Fleischer's comments best expressed the deserved moral outrage.

Lanny Davis,a former Clinton counsel, also publicly rebuked her.

That special seat she has in the front row should be taken away.

"Canada's budget is breaking, socialist policies in Europe are failing, and steve still sticks to Keynes."

And supply-side deregulation did a FAB job here in the US, did it not, LICC?

Can someone please tell me what Helen Thomas did wrong, other than express her opinion? Of course Walt Whitman High School is in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood - I went to the rival Thomas Wooton because I lived on the other side of Falls Road, so I know.

I think that especially RS and LICC, who routinely spout nonsense on this board, should be particularly protective of people's right to say whatever they want.

Helen is the perfect hack for the welfare state. Perferct. The dumbing down of America. Please Helen, speak more, open up, we love to hear your opinions.