Is a 3br/2bath UWS under $5K (no fee) realistic

We have also been looking at 2 or 3 BR apts UWS, but ranging up to a higher price. I've spent dozens of hrs/week on streeteasy.

With a $5k limit you will be constrained and/or will not get everything, but you should be able to find something. Also consider above 96th st, where pricing is lower.

I dunno about 202RSD. That apt is $43/sf, which is cheap for UWS. Either the sf-age is very inflated, or the apt is bad, or something else. Or you could just be lucky!

As for 30w75, I looked at that apt on Sunday. The block is very nice. Decent space, not huge, quiet, some nice brick and wood details. Bldg hallway and steps were carpeted, but it had some holes. A/C units didn't seem to do much cooling and they looked pretty old. But don't let me dissuade you, since the price is right.

Also, if you just need small bedrooms (or one medium and two small), then particularly in the upper 90s and 100s you can find 3 BR apts designed for shares, therefore not huge, and within your budget.

Good luck.

Good afternoon,

I work for Citi Habitats and we've got several no fee 3bed/2 baths under 5K listed at the moment that are fantastic. I'm more than happy to send along additional info and/or show you some of the options out there. Feel free to email me. Thanks!

Best of luck,
Shannon

Shannon,

Hi. Welcome, and thank you for your offer of assistance to west80s. Before we get started, can you answer a question for me?

How do you account for the discrepancies in your firm's rental reports? Another poster, inonada, brought this basic error up the other day, and no one from c-h has dropped by to answer. Perhaps you might be able to.

-----
inonada
4 days ago
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The US Census Bureau puts the NYC free-market rental stock at 187.5K as of 2008. Call it 190K to put that number in 2010. Streeteasy shows 8500 apartments available for rent with "must have address" to filter out the likely fishing-expedition listings. That alone puts the vacancy rate at 4.5%. Throw in the fact that much of the rental stock from rental buildings doesn't make it's way onto SE, and you're looking at something in the 5-10% range. Yet Citi-Habitats reports 1.xx%.

By Citi-Habitat's own April numbers:

http://www.citi-habitats.com/market.php

There were 9974 rentals available in April 2010 with a vacancy rate of 1.23%. This translates to 811K rental units in Manhattan. Two questions for you, then:

1) Should the vacancy rate only reflect free-market apartments or the entire rental stock, including rent-controlled, rent-stabilized, Mitchell-Lama, and public housing units? I'm pretty sure the average prices being reported only include free-market rents.

2) Assuming we go with the vacancy rate overall, the Census Bureau puts the total number of rental units in Manhattan at 587.5K as of 2008. Where do the other 811K - 587.5K = 223.5K units come from???
...
More on the idiocy of the vacancy rate numbers. In the March report, there were 10,002 vacant apartments. In the April report, there were 9974 vacant apartments. The difference is 28 apartments.

What was the difference in the vacancy rate reported? It was 1.38% in March vs. 1.23% in April. If a 28 apartment difference amounts to a 0.15% difference in vacancy rates, then that would imply a rental stock of 18.6K apartments. Yet the 9974 vacant apartments vs. a 1.23% vacancy rates implies a rental stock of 811K apartments.

Uhh, that's some good statistics -- the 2 pieces of data they provide don't even line up within a factor of 10.

Thank you SkinnyNsweet for the wonderful census report you have provided in this forum. It sure does throw up a lot of questions at this present time on some of the availability reports out there at this point. I really found the vacancy rate numbers surprising, that only 28 apartments were rented in April.

Would it be possible for you to provide us the link for the above mentioned Census report.

The Urban Sherpa Team
www.urbansherpany.com

SkinnyNsweet
about 24 hours ago
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report abuse Shannon,

Hi. Welcome, and thank you for your offer of assistance to west80s. Before we get started, can you answer a question for me?

How do you account for the discrepancies in your firm's rental reports? Another poster, inonada, brought this basic error up the other day, and no one from c-h has dropped by to answer. Perhaps you might be able to.

nice....ask some bottom of the barrel broker shilling on streeteasy how her firm comes up with it's vacancy reports.

Alighty jimnutz. How does a top of the barrel borker shill who can't break 7 minutes answer the vaca question.

shill? ever seen my try and get someone to work with me here?
they aren't my numbers, no need for me to justify them

it's kind of rough and ready if you can call a doorman building that but the Montana at 247 w 87th street has huge 3 bedroom floorplans and they are in the $5k range depending on what floor. It has a pool and a garage so it's a pretty good building. You don't have to pay a fee to see it once they have one available as this landlord pays the fee uptown. :)

oh for the love of Pete!

I don't work for Citi-H, but it seems to me that some of the difference would be in the geography of the sample (Citi-H is supposedly extrapolating from Manhattan buildings to get Manhattan data, while even the Census goes out of its way to say that once you move from the NYC level to the borough level, its numbers are shaky) and some of the difference would be in the age of the sample (census housing vacancy survey last done in 2008, next one due in 2011, right? -- while Citi-H's numbers presumably 2010).

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

"the Montana at 247 w 87th street has huge 3 bedroom floorplans and they are in the $5k range depending on what floor"

show me

Wow...ShannonMcLaughlin... another one bites the dust.

Ali, for the love of Pete, read the details before you proclaim "for the love of Pete". The discrepancy is 811K apartments according to C-H vs. 185K in the 2008 census.

If it helps any, the latest C-H vacancy rate and available apartments now indicates more than 900K apartments.

Granted, some of the listed places are not yet vacant, but I'm sure just as many are not in the C-H or SE system. The point is that their vacancy rate sample sucks.

inonada
about 9 hours ago
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report abuse Ali, for the love of Pete, read the details before you proclaim "for the love of Pete". The discrepancy is 811K apartments according to C-H vs. 185K in the 2008 census.

If it helps any, the latest C-H vacancy rate and available apartments now indicates more than 900K apartments.

Granted, some of the listed places are not yet vacant, but I'm sure just as many are not in the C-H or SE system. The point is that their vacancy rate sample sucks.

but the real reason you think it sucks is because you don't want to believe that it's true
just like you didn't want to believe rents were rising. did that get through your thick skull yet?

Do you still think AR and w67th and CC should be banned? How come you had the hfscomm1 MO when you first showed up? How come you had that strange conversation with hfscomm1 that got deleted?

"but the real reason you think it sucks..."

Actually no, I think the real reason they think the data sucks is because it does. Regardless of what it is the data implies, and whether it is right or wrong, the data does not WORK. It isn't internally cohesive and therefore is invalid as data.

The argument against it is that it is inaccurate. Which is true on the face of it since the data implies inaccuracies in fundamental market statistics... Is the market 800-900k units or 180k? different denominators will lead to different percentages given the same numerators. That means that you are implying an argument that the data is "fake but accurate."

nada, really, if you want to believe that i post under different names, thats fine. i have stayed really consistent, only changed from jim_hones09 to 10 because se booted me

jim_hones10
about 4 hours ago
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i've changed it twice. kind of fitting anyway, since it is 2010.

avUWS, if citi habitats (or any other brokerage) said the sun was going to rise tomorrow, you and others on this board would puff yourselves up and come up with "data" that would disprove it.
fact: the vacancy rate is very very low. is it as low as citi says? i don't know or care. most people care very little about it when they are apartment hunting. Right now, once all the variables are in (price, size, location, ameneties, pets, etc) there are usually between 1-5 apartments that fit a given client. Maybe more on the in Mitown and on the UWS or UES That is down significantly from 6-12 months ago.

should have said, i have had two monikers, 09 and 10.

Ah, nothing like brokerspeak.

A one is a two unless I say it's a three.

Hey, are you gonna take the place or not? I have three other people ready to go.

Or, did I mean one other?

how it usually works is like this:
renter says they want an apartment. i tell them to complete the application including all paperwork, and drop it and all fees including deposit to my office once complete. i will also let them know that until this is done, we will continue to show the apartment and that applications are reviewed on a first come first serve basis. i don't get into the "there may be other interested parties" thing with them unless of course they are the second third, fourth person who has said they want to put in an app

Do you let them see it first?

How can they decide if they want the apt if the haven't seen it?

WOW. You jimnutz needed a good upbringing more than most.

Here is another analogy for you.

The 'reservationist' at the four seasons hualalai DOES not set the market. You just take my platinum card numbers, and when I call at 3 am at my convenience I expect you to be chipper and note that I want a king non smoking ocean view room with an early check in and an ice cold corona on the table and some pineapples for my wife.

You are like the 'reservationist' telling se that over memorial day weekend, Mgmt has raised prices on by taking away free valet parking after having to cut the rack rate by 30%.

Now do you think the valet fee will stick? Flmao.

You're as stupid as anyone else on here. You don't want to believe the market has changed because it's a distasteful notion. So you write a bunch of what you think is clever shit, through some zz's on the end and think your superior. But you playing old and stale music

Yeah cause Brittany spears is 'good music' to you

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

trust me 2,444 open houses does not presage a strengthening market. I'll change my tune when this song ends m'okay.

No you won't. Beacuse your an arrogant loser. You'll come up with another bullshit reason to support your point of view.

You are absolutely correct jimnutz....
In no particular order;
1) lax credit;
2) 40:1 banking leverage;
3) Global credit bubble;
4) said bubble leading to unsupportable structural changes in employment (like the $300K/yr borker);
5) Bear
6) lehman
7) unprecedented monetary easing and we still got deflation
8) Euro at parity soon
9) 1000pt swings in dow
10) dow 6500 to 11K in 1 yr
11) both GSEs bankrupt
12) listing at lalalala land $1500psf
13) gulf coast is a gas station
14) labor strikes in China
15) North korea nuclear sabre rattling
16) Sovereign defaults coming
17) NYS about to go bankrupt
18) NYS funding pensions by borrowing from said pensions
19) School teachers out of work
20) 2.5K weekly open houses (just in manhattan)

I can go on like Celine.... but to a rental borker like yourself... all the above is "bullshit." FLMAO

Hey I'm full service nowadays. I've expanded in this "down" market. I've got people who run my open houses for mr.

"i have stayed really consistent, only changed from jim_hones09 to 10 because se booted me."

Did you ask SE why they booted you?

Also, why do you now say you only have had two names when before you had claimed more?

"jimhones09
about 9 months ago
i really think that this board would be a better place without: west67th, columbiacounty and aboutready. i would settle for anyone of the three finding a new hobby but all three would be most ideal.
i am not a new poster...i am an old poster sick of all of your antics
i am a real estate professional (if that matters at all)
i do seek and ocassionally try and give guidance on this board, but find all three of you beyond intolerable"

How long have you been posting? Do you find it odd that you sound just like hfscomm1?

whoa... inonada... slow it down...

He might blow a fuse....

yes i also noted his "posting" habits are similar to an "aloofy, azzhoie kinda" postings as hfs....

It's getting close to July 4th, we need to test the fireworks to make sure we didn't buy duds.

Do you go to bed thinking about this?
Why don't you ask se if I'm two different posters

Nada, I think you are really aboutready.
W67 is definately columbiacountry

Who cares? What difference does it make?

Did you ask SE why they banned you? What did they say?

Why did you claim you were an old poster, and now you claim that you've never posted under another name?

jim_hones is trippin' ballzz! " Columbia county is W67, mos def," he says!
He be trippin' balzzz!

Jumbo...you're caught. Fess up.

honesy I take that as a compliment but I limit myself to one identity. it simplifies things.

What did you say w67? You're so small I can't hear you

Doggie is from the ghetto, and never got out apparentlu

Nada plays with himself in the shower thinking about my "multiple personalities"

Jimnutz. 'doggie'? Flmao. I wonder which banned SE character would often refer to w67 as 'doggie' ?
Omfg, plz do me a favor and get 4 iPhones and label it on top so you can stay in character. Flmao.

2484 open houses!!!!!! Woot

I think I'm doggie, w67. But there's no doubt that jim hones is confused. Poor lad. Doesn't realize it's called the hood now --- not the ghetto.
People are being mean to jim_hones partly because he is so humor-impaired. Well, I lie. I DO chuckle when he thinks nada ar w67 and CC are all the same creature or at least Siamese twins.
Trippin BALLLLSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

can you read? dogismy is "doggie"
how fucking big is your ego? do you think everything here has to do with you?

'honey, itz all me'

Honesy? Rufus? Who is it there?

If you take Paxil, does your identity change?

Dogismy
about 2 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse I think I'm doggie, w67. But there's no doubt that jim hones is confused. Poor lad. Doesn't realize it's called the hood now --- not the ghetto.
People are being mean to jim_hones partly because he is so humor-impaired. Well, I lie. I DO chuckle when he thinks nada ar w67 and CC are all the same creature or at least Siamese twins.
Trippin BALLLLSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

i'm an old-fashioned suburban raised white american male. to me, and people like me, its stil the ghetto.

Guys,

Can we get back to the original topic?

My wife and I looked at 202 Riverside today. The $4300 apartment is already rented (we have been told), but they have 2 3br/2 bath apartments available for $5700 on 6th floor and $5900 on 7th floor. The apartments are exactly the same, maybe better river view from the 7th.

I have to say that we disliked both apartments. Rooms are small, no view from the other two bedrooms, the master bedroom does not have a bath attached, both baths in hallway. Closets are tiny. Not impressive at all.

Location is nice but we would consider that apartment only if they lowered the price to under $4K.

Will stop by 30 west 75th tomorrow, as they have open houses every day. I guess they are really trying to rent it.

Will check out Montana as well, thanks.

This is merely a microcosmic anecdote rather than city-wide statistics, but it fits topic of this post, and at least in our case validates one point made thus far.

We're looking for almost the same thing. Either real 3br or 2br plus separate formal DR (will use for home office, not sleeping.) 1200sf likely minimum, probably 1400sf more likely. Must have W/D or hook-up.

Searching streeteasy over a few weeks I built a list of 23 possibilities.

Almost all are either TH duplexes or pre-war apt bldgs. A few were modern rental or condo bldgs, but as luck would have it we didn't like any of them for various reasons. Nothing against the type; we currently live in a modern rental bldg, just need more space at a price we can justify.

We saw 6 and eliminated another 5 without seeing after checking details. We have 12 left, going up to $8,500, which is really past our limit.

There are more at higher prices, mostly modern bldgs, such as the Ashley at 400w63, which has dozens on the market now. At $11,500 we are not takers.

Going forward, if we like half the remaining ones to see, we will have a choice of around 6 apts.

Another poster said it usually comes down to between 1 and 5 apartments. Sounds like that's right for us.

I wonder if that holds up both below and above what we're looking for. In other words, is the balance between supply and demand roughly equal at all points of the spectrum, or are there substantial variations throughout? Admittedly a big question, requiring more data and analysis than I have, or have time for.

Guys,

Can we get back to the original topic?

My wife and I looked at 202 Riverside today. The $4300 apartment is already rented (we have been told), but they have 2 3br/2 bath apartments available for $5700 on 6th floor and $5900 on 7th floor. The apartments are exactly the same, maybe better river view from the 7th.

I have to say that we disliked both apartments. Rooms are small, no view from the other two bedrooms, the master bedroom does not have a bath attached, both baths in hallway. Closets are tiny. Not impressive at all.

Location is nice but we would consider that apartment only if they lowered the price to under $4K.

Will stop by 30 west 75th tomorrow, as they have open houses every day. I guess they are really trying to rent it.

Will check out Montana as well, thanks.

WAIT. WAIT......I thought that landlords would be stabbing each other in the back, FALLING over to get to you.

Not really working out that way is it?
By the way, at the Montana, you will be dealing with a broker (onsite, but from a major firm) to get your deal done.

Where is the noise from the folks that think this isn't a tight market.

I COULD tell you about an open house on a brownstone on a great low west 80's block being run today (maybe a bit small for you, but still a great space) OR about my yet to be listed west 75th 2/2.

But you don't want to pay a fee or deal with brokers, so I won't

Good luck to you...I mean it, because you'll need it

Wow. Not again. Two ppl ain't gonna do 25x rent to buy so they are shopping for a very very 'specific' listing and can't get it and somehow the rental mkt is blazin saddles. Flmao.

Let me tell ya, if I had half a brain id be knocking on the $10k month rentals. Let's see if the ll sits two months then they are effective $8k/month. Bid $7.5 k for all rentals priced at $10k and above.

The more flexible you are the better your chances. How's about flex 3 wo wd get it for$1k cheaper and hire a day time maid?

this is why you are stupid. most (95%?) or so of people who are looking for an apartment (either to buy or rent) are NOT flexible. THAT is what thick headed people like you never can get through their heads. it is going to be their home afterall. prick

the reality is this: the op saw a bunch of "listings" on streeteasy and thought he had a handle on the market. he tried to see some of these apartments and realized that the market has quickly torn through his budget and he has to either a, adjust his expectations, or b, spend a hell of a lot more than he thought, for less than he thought it would get him. going it alone isn't fun in this tight market is it, op?

Howz about this one?
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/612574-condo-161-west-61st-street-lincoln-square-new-york
STREETEASY HISTORY
10/08/2009
Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $8,600.
01/07/2010
Prudential Elliman Listing rented. Last priced at $7,300.
01/19/2010
Listed by Marion Bass, Inc. at $6,950.
03/06/2010
Delisted temporarily.
05/29/2010
Re-listed by Marion Bass, Inc..
05/29/2010
Price increased by 4% to $7,250.
06/13/2010
Price increased by 3% to $7,500.

Marion Bass the moron of all moron borkers. sitting for 6months at $6.9K... oh I know, it'll RENT if i raise the RENTS to $7.5K... put that beeeytch outta her misery... FLMAO.

don't you find it interesting that the people who come to this site who are actually out looking for an apartment can't find what they want, but you do a "search" and think you have all the answers?
maybe the bullshit "listings" you see here have more to them then meets the eye?
cunt

Honesy. Why do you sound so desperate if your business is guaranteed by market conditions? Why have you been spouting incorrect info for months?

what's been incorrect ar? go into your archives please. im waiting

desparate.....how about w67th, you and other's being desparate to show that i'm wrong.

i'm not the one who digs up shit here to try and prove anything....aside from what is printed in periodicals like the times, the wsj, crain's (among others)

sounds like ALOT more evidence that i am right (and have been all along) that you and your ilk ever were

waiting ar/w67/or cc (whatever in hell you are calling yourself right now) for your "proof"

Proof that you're a low like blood sucker?

Trust me, you've provided more than enough proof of that.

here is some of the "incorrect info i have been spouting for months"

jim_hones10
about 3 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse polydoa
20 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse i am sorry but those are not articles, they are opinions in blogs wit absolutely no data to substantiate any claims or hopes. show us the data of rents going higher and we'll talk.

I don't need to show anyone any data. other people here are doing it for me. there is another thread here (very recent) about rental concessions being taken away. my line is this:
1. inventory levels decrease IN DESIREABLE NEIGHBORHOODS (I don't really care about Fidi, Midtown West of 9th ave, Bklyn, LI city or the neighborhood next to the housing projects behind the time warner center. you want to live in those places, good for you)
2. landlords, noting the decrease in inventory will begin to take away concessions in select circumtances (this is already happening)
3. rents will increase

WATCH IT HAPPEN! If you don't sign a long term lease on a "deal" apartment you will be priced out

I do this everyday, I see it everyday

tell me what you do for a living? peace corps teach underprivelaged kids? soldier/police office/fireman? trauma surgeon? than FUCK OFF

I don't have to go into the archives. Honesy there's something valuable about maintaining credibility. I have it. You don't.

But having said that it amazes me you should ask for such. It's sooooo obvious. How about we haveva credibility poll?

You're only hurting the general status of brokers. Unless you secretly hate brokers I'd quit with these tactics.

ar, you're a displaced suburban housewife....i am an expert on the real estate market, because i have to be. so you fuck off too....feed your kids, please.

Honesy I've had at least 4 brokers offer me jjobs just from idle chatter. Another who knows me very well has told me that i have a better grasp of real estate than anyone he knows, and he's been in the business for over 20 years. Oh, and he has offered me a job as well.

Desperation has an ugly odor

you smell it often i guess, huh? everytime you lift your arms over your head?

i wouldn't know. i do know what the expression "the pot calling the kettle black".

That's very good.

Do you know anything else?

Other than...

Take it before someone else does.

If a mother is taking Paxil, who feeds the kids?

i know tht you are too chickenshit to even hint at a profession other than to say rather lamely that it "adds value"

drug dealers add value, according to some people. so do nannies....are you a nanny? do you change diapers?

jim_hones, how on earth do you have the time to take over every discussion thread on SE?

All day long on a Sunday, no less. You know, downtime in the industry.

Let's help the OP.

OP: it is hard but not impossible to find a 3b2b as ferengi has pointed out at your price point. You could of course, follow the low offer approach and see where that gets you with higher-priced listings. Why not? Nothing to lose.

W67: if you can pay even a sweet thou more than OP's 5k, that opens you up to a whole world of rental listings. Unfortunately, right at 5k is tight.

inonada
about 7 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse All day long on a Sunday, no less. You know, downtime in the industry.

effective time management and a well trained staff do wonders for your free time.

bump.
would love to hear if the op has found his apartment.

where did you put RS?

i dont know what that means.

of course you do.

cc, how often have i said "i don't know what that means"? do you think being vague is cool or something? or are you still convinced that i post under other names?

Of course you post under different names. You said you did. It's painfully obvious. And, it's pathetic.

Question is if you can find a 2/2 in a good enough nabe at $5K today.