i recently renovated my apt. my landlord started a lease termination because of it. here's some background. i have a rent stable lease. i ask the land lord to renovate my apt last year and her refused. i asked them to replace my water heater because it was old and wanted it them to move it to the next room for my space in my tiny bathroom and they refused. so renovated the bathroom myself last... [more]
i recently renovated my apt. my landlord started a lease termination because of it. here's some background. i have a rent stable lease. i ask the land lord to renovate my apt last year and her refused. i asked them to replace my water heater because it was old and wanted it them to move it to the next room for my space in my tiny bathroom and they refused. so renovated the bathroom myself last month. i replace the tiles and some dry wall. replace the sink and new tiles on the floor. i then moved the old water heater to the next room. everything was fine but after a couple of days the water heater started leaking. probably from moving it but possibly not cause i was using it fine for a day or 2. anyway the landlord is now starting legal action to terminate my lease for renovating the bathroom without his permission. i didn't even know he can do that he never even sends the rider with the info regarding that stuff with the lease. any info on the matter would be appreciated.
thanks
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Response by StF62
over 15 years ago
Posts: 128
Member since: Jan 2009
Dude (or dudette), having rented for many years I tend to side with tenants, but not this time. You're completely out of line. The apartment is simply not your property - you may not do anything to it without the owner's permission. What made you think you had the right to make these changes to something that doesn't belong to you? Just because the LL refused your request doesn't give you the right to do anything. If your living situation is unsafe, contact the proper authorities - in NY you have the tenant protection laws on your side. You SHOULD be kicked out for what you did, and you should pay for the damage you caused. Grow up.
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Response by kylewest
over 15 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
On the facts presented, you did not have the right to engage in the renovations you describe and likely violated your lease terms. And the unauthorized work you did appears to have actually caused damage. You should have had an attorney work this out with the landlord BEFORE you decided to tear apart and rearrange his walls/appliances/etc. They were not yours to change--they belong to your landlord. I strongly suggest you get legal counsel quickly if you want to have any chance of remaining in your apartment.
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Response by nyc10023
over 15 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
you may have something to your case if you have a non-standard RS lease - it can be argued that your LL removed the no-renovation standard provision by not providing for it in the K. Talk to a lawyer. Before everyone jumps on CP7, RS LLs are often negligent in doing repairs in hopes of provoking situations like this.
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Response by PMG
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1322
Member since: Jan 2008
"LLs are often negligent in doing repairs in hopes of provoking situations like this"
True. This is a rather natural consequence of enacting limitations on LL rights, then allowing vacancy and luxury decontrol as a means of recovering those rights. With our screwed up system of rent regulation, there are consequences.
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Response by StF62
over 15 years ago
Posts: 128
Member since: Jan 2009
nyc10023 you're correct - LLs ARE often negligent, devious, even evil - but that does not give anyone the right to change stuff at will. There are tenant laws, assistance agencies (both governmental and and non-profits) and a myriad other avenues to help a NY tenant fight a negligent LL and win. I've done it myself. But I did not treat the apartment as if I owned it, I went through the proper channels. Yes, it's a pain, it takes a long while, and it's very irritating, but it is the law, and it is winnable. The LL may well be in the wrong here, but that doesn't give CP7 a right to undertake unauthorized renovations.
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Response by Socialist
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2261
Member since: Feb 2010
I'm going to say it right now: CP7 is an idiot. Why would you spend money renovating an apt. that is not yours?
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Response by glamma
over 15 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009
if your landlord withholds riders form you, something smells funny. you should definitely check with the DHCR. you may still lose your apartment but who knows, they can check other things as well such as if you have been overcharged, etc.
maybe your landlord likes what you've done with the place and wants to kick you out to get a higher rent. ouch.
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Response by alanhart
over 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
PMG, just find an online apartment review site for any non-rent-regulated city in the US, and you'll see that most landlords refuse to make repairs for existing tenants on a timely basis. This includes the many markets that start out with a one-year and then automatically and routinely go month-to-month ... i.e. tenant can up and leave on 30 days' notice.
If NYC RS LLs are even more that way about repairs, it clearly isn't the crux of the problem.
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Response by apt23
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2041
Member since: Jul 2009
get a lawyer. you are also probably liable for damages. i'd start looking for a new apt.
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Response by kspeak
over 15 years ago
Posts: 813
Member since: Aug 2008
>>> I'm going to say it right now: CP7 is an idiot. Why would you spend money renovating an apt. that is not yours?
CP7 is an idiot for renovating something that wasn't his without permsission.
But the spending $$$ part isn't as crazy as you think. If it's way below market - say CP7 has asomething absurb, like a nice 3 bedroom apartment for $1k a month in a good neighborhood. Usually RS means the landlord has to renew your lease every year, so CP7 can basically live there indefinitely. And he's saving a lot by not living in a market rate apartment, so it's not stupid financially.
So the spending money part isn't crazy, it's the doing it without permission. It will of course prove to be stupid financially as well when the landlord can legally not renew his lease.
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Response by Socialist
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2261
Member since: Feb 2010
I doubt CP7 is getting an amazing deal that warrants him renovating on his own dime. He is RS, not rent control. RC is where the super deals are.
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Response by DaBulls
over 15 years ago
Posts: 261
Member since: Jun 2008
Unfortunately, you are in a very different position as a rental tenant than as a homeowner. This is one of the many unfortunate situations in the rental market.
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Dude (or dudette), having rented for many years I tend to side with tenants, but not this time. You're completely out of line. The apartment is simply not your property - you may not do anything to it without the owner's permission. What made you think you had the right to make these changes to something that doesn't belong to you? Just because the LL refused your request doesn't give you the right to do anything. If your living situation is unsafe, contact the proper authorities - in NY you have the tenant protection laws on your side. You SHOULD be kicked out for what you did, and you should pay for the damage you caused. Grow up.
On the facts presented, you did not have the right to engage in the renovations you describe and likely violated your lease terms. And the unauthorized work you did appears to have actually caused damage. You should have had an attorney work this out with the landlord BEFORE you decided to tear apart and rearrange his walls/appliances/etc. They were not yours to change--they belong to your landlord. I strongly suggest you get legal counsel quickly if you want to have any chance of remaining in your apartment.
you may have something to your case if you have a non-standard RS lease - it can be argued that your LL removed the no-renovation standard provision by not providing for it in the K. Talk to a lawyer. Before everyone jumps on CP7, RS LLs are often negligent in doing repairs in hopes of provoking situations like this.
"LLs are often negligent in doing repairs in hopes of provoking situations like this"
True. This is a rather natural consequence of enacting limitations on LL rights, then allowing vacancy and luxury decontrol as a means of recovering those rights. With our screwed up system of rent regulation, there are consequences.
nyc10023 you're correct - LLs ARE often negligent, devious, even evil - but that does not give anyone the right to change stuff at will. There are tenant laws, assistance agencies (both governmental and and non-profits) and a myriad other avenues to help a NY tenant fight a negligent LL and win. I've done it myself. But I did not treat the apartment as if I owned it, I went through the proper channels. Yes, it's a pain, it takes a long while, and it's very irritating, but it is the law, and it is winnable. The LL may well be in the wrong here, but that doesn't give CP7 a right to undertake unauthorized renovations.
I'm going to say it right now: CP7 is an idiot. Why would you spend money renovating an apt. that is not yours?
if your landlord withholds riders form you, something smells funny. you should definitely check with the DHCR. you may still lose your apartment but who knows, they can check other things as well such as if you have been overcharged, etc.
maybe your landlord likes what you've done with the place and wants to kick you out to get a higher rent. ouch.
PMG, just find an online apartment review site for any non-rent-regulated city in the US, and you'll see that most landlords refuse to make repairs for existing tenants on a timely basis. This includes the many markets that start out with a one-year and then automatically and routinely go month-to-month ... i.e. tenant can up and leave on 30 days' notice.
If NYC RS LLs are even more that way about repairs, it clearly isn't the crux of the problem.
get a lawyer. you are also probably liable for damages. i'd start looking for a new apt.
>>> I'm going to say it right now: CP7 is an idiot. Why would you spend money renovating an apt. that is not yours?
CP7 is an idiot for renovating something that wasn't his without permsission.
But the spending $$$ part isn't as crazy as you think. If it's way below market - say CP7 has asomething absurb, like a nice 3 bedroom apartment for $1k a month in a good neighborhood. Usually RS means the landlord has to renew your lease every year, so CP7 can basically live there indefinitely. And he's saving a lot by not living in a market rate apartment, so it's not stupid financially.
So the spending money part isn't crazy, it's the doing it without permission. It will of course prove to be stupid financially as well when the landlord can legally not renew his lease.
I doubt CP7 is getting an amazing deal that warrants him renovating on his own dime. He is RS, not rent control. RC is where the super deals are.
Unfortunately, you are in a very different position as a rental tenant than as a homeowner. This is one of the many unfortunate situations in the rental market.