the bad, the ugly, and who are the good brokers??

"can someone provide me advice as to who the better brokerage companies in new york would be. we have dealt with several, most of the big ones and then some smaller ones. but is there a good one?? an honest one ??"

That's a tough one, as most are filled with thieves and lowlives, witness this thread.

deal with the large reputable firms, stay away from the Craigs List specials !!
There are many buildings that have management companies that you can go to directly as well

I have also just experienced an awful broker situation!!! It is just awful that you can't remotely trust either side - your broker or the seller's broker - they both are just lying idiots who only want to rob you for all you're guillible for...

I've met so many brokers over the past two months looking for a place to purchase and honestly, what exactly do they do?!?!? they go on line and look up the same exact places you can find on here or nytimes.com, they email to make appointments, and just open the door for you when you get to the place! They have done ZERO research on the apartment, the building, other comperable apartments in the area, if anything sold in the building recently...and they think they should get paid 3% or6% for that... GAG ME PLEASE ... i'd rather throw my own money into a fire than have my apt purchase give them anything...

honestly, they are 100% useless!!! and in addition, they are even more UN-reliable when dealing with a bidding situation because on top of having to decide if the seller's broker is lying about bids, you have to figure out if your broker is lying...

the funny thing is that they'd probably be more successful if they tried to ACTUALLY MAKE the sale at a reasonable price when compared to the number of transaction they lose due to buyers walking away from transactions...since the increamental revenue to them from a $20K higher bid is a mere $600 per broker...

IDIOTS...

I am an agent and I understand that a client wants the perfect situation; however, the experience also requires an ideal client which is difficult to come by. Before you can really put down a broker, you really have to examine your contribution to the problem and ask yourself the following questions:

--Do I independently earn 40 to 50 times the monthly rent? DO NOT include bonuses. You do not need to combine you income with another party to meet this criteria. Neither you nor any other people in the apartment require a guarantor.

--Am I able to apply for the apartment without having ANY discussion with ANY other party other than the other prospective tenant who simultaneously viewed the apartment with me?

--Is my credit perfect? Is the credit of the other applicants? Is my guarantor’s credit perfect?

--Do I personally have liquid assets over $500,000? Trust funds don't count.

--Have I been working at the same job for more than 2 years?

--Do I have a pet? Does it weigh less than 15 lbs?

--When I made initial contact with my broker, did I have ALL the required documentation? If I am renting as a couple or with a roommate, was this person equally prepared?
--Was all required money for rent, security, broker’s fee, application fee, etc readily available in my personal, local bank account?

--Is the apartment I am seeking at the market rate for my area of choice? Approx market rates below 96th Street: Studio - $2,000; 1-bedroom - $3500; 2-bedroom - $5,000; 3-bedroom $8,000+. Rents above 96th Street are usually lower.

--If I am looking for an apartment under the market rate, did I immediately apply for an acceptable apartment or did I ask my agent, 'What else you got?' or state, 'I need to see more before I can make a decision.'

--Did I limit my apartment search to Monday through Friday from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.?

If you have answered 'No' to any one of these questions, then your apartment search is probably very difficult. You have to face the hard fact that you aren't qualified to rent in most of Manhattan and most agents are too afraid address this with their clients. I think this is the greatest area of agent incompetence because the competent agent knows your application will probably be passed over several times before you rent. If this is your situation, be grateful that an agent is still willing to work with you. Please be aware that more seasoned agents will avoid clients who don't meet the criteria I have listed above. So the dilemma is that the more financially-compromised clients are probably working with the least experienced agents.

Another problem is that if you don't meet the criteria above, the landlords don't care to respond. CASH IS KING and LANDLORDS RULE!!! You can't command attention in this city without it! Landlords also HATE having multiple applicants. Who enjoys paperwork? It's so much easier to have 1 person who can outright rent the apartment without having to submit guarantor's paperwork. I had very wealthy and prominent client lose an apartment because he wanted to pay his rent by credit card and chose to try to negotiate this. In the meantime, someone else just came along and gave the landlord the 1st month rent and security.

Please understand that putting down a deposit doesn't give you an apartment. You MUST be the most financially qualified applicant and you MUST be able to submit ALL documentation and pay ALL moneys IMMEDIATELY. This means you can lose an apartment by just second!!! Are you prepared to move that quickly? Most people don't realize that they need to have approx 6 months rent in their bank account when they first meet with the agent. This way you can just walk over to the bank and have the cashier's check made out instantly but some people don't even use a bank with a local branch.

Since below-market rate apartments don't stay on the market long, agents usually don't have enough time to take pictures of an apartment and go back several days later to show it to a client. Most apartments are rented on the same day they are listed.

Your broker should have warned you that owners of below-market rate apartments often take multiple applications, so they can sort out the best. That's one of the reasons why it can take days to find out your application status.

I won't defend the agent's lateness. It does occur occasionally, but it shouldn't be routine. About his having lunch, did you have an opportunity to eat? When you were hungry did the agent ask you to delay your meal, while he ate his lunch? If you spent more than 2 hours with your agent, he was probably hungry and unless he specifically told you not to eat when you were hungry, I say he should have had his lunch. By the way, many of my clients have offered me lunch after I have spent the morning with them.

Most renters in New York are looking for a bargain but NYC is a specialty real estate market with some of the most expensive property on the planet. Looking for an apartment here is like shopping for a used Honda Civic in a Ferrari showroom. Most people would think this scenario is unrealistic but prospective renters usually ask agents to perform the impossible, then they don't like the response or the experience. Many of the larger brokerage firms stay away from rentals and only work with apartments that rent for $5,000 or more. Yes, there are studios for that price!

I recently had a very frustrated client whose application was passed over for an apartment. He is a student with a guarantor that just earned slightly over 40 times the rent. He was trying to rent a $1,400 studio apartment. Unfortunately, there were 3 applicants who were earning over $100,000 annually and had guarantors earning over $400,000 with assets of over $2,000,000. This is what you are up against in NYC. Most prospective renters really aren't prepared for the competition and don't heed warnings about the chaos of the market.

I feel bad for you and the agent. You seem to be looking for an under-market rate apartment (Isn't everyone?) so you'll probably have the same type of experience no matter who you work with. It will probably get better when you can increase your budget. You won't have to worry about an agent getting a key, if you can afford a building with at least a part-time attendant. If you can't then try to be patient or look in another area where you can get more value. Unfortunately, this has become more difficult since Brooklyn's rent is beginning to mirror Manhattan's, so Queens may be a better choice.

The agent obviously did all that frustrating work and didn't get paid. That is definitely disappointing. I don't know the particulars of your situation but someone else may not have even taken you on. I have to commend him for even trying.
I wish you the best on finding your new home.

I would agree with the above except needing 500,000 in liquid assets to rent. Maybe I misinterpreted that statement. The other statement I disagree with is most apartments get rented the same day they are listed. Other than that you are basically right on the money (no pun intended)

Insight and Spunky thankyou for your constructive comments. This is detailed and very useful.

Thanks for the feedback. I am only emphasizing an ideal, seamless, stressless, knock-out the competition apartment search process that most people like the poster wants but isn't prepared to execute. Those people are usually quick to blame the broker. In that event, I would say $500,000 would be a safe starting point if you want to be sure to get the apartment. As I mentioned, there were at least 2 people who applied for a lost out to someone who had substantial assets. The numerous other 30+ applicants probably had admirable employment and assets but lost out too.

In addition, I was pointing out that most renters are looking for apartments priced about 50-60% under the market average and those apartments will have an application submitted on the same day. For example, a decent $1450 alcove studio below 96th St will usually have several applications submitted on the first day of access which can be an open house and anyone who been to one knows that there can be 20 or more applicants. Most renters are price saavy and they can spot a great bargain. Market rate apartments can take longer just like those with problems like poor sunlight, etc.

Dude, if I had half a million in cash I'd be looking into buying a place. If I were staying put for a while, that is.

I'm happily living in a rent-stabilized apartment just south of 110th & B'way. I found it, two years ago, through an open house posted on Craigslist. There's an orthodox Jewish broker (Mark? Andy? I could look it up) who does marathon open houses on Sunday mornings for buildings in the 100th-110th B'way-Columbus area (I think a lot of them are Pinnacle Management). The open house itself was hilarious. The address listed for the open house was actually a hardware store on Amsterdam. A group of 30+ people congregated there waiting for the broker. It turned out that the apartment wasn't exactly there at all -- or rather, there were six or seven apartments, which we saw on a powerwalking tour through the neighborhood. Everyone trooped up the stairs, we all saw the apartment, everyone trooped down and hustled off to the next one. Short people like me had to jog to keep up. At the end, the broker asked who wanted to put in for which apartments, and I chose the nicest of them. (N.B. I earn well over 50x the rent.) There was a little sleight-of-hand in that the open house was described as "no fee", and the first unit we saw was indeed no-fee, but the others weren't. Eh. The neighborhood's terrific, the apartment's charming, and I'm paying a lot less than I did in Midtown.

The other advantage of rent stabilization (besides your rent not going up) is that, if there's a co-op or condo conversion, they must let you buy. My last apartment was in a non-stabilized building, and management floated a condo conversion proposal but refused to renew anyone's lease, thus emptying the building (by serving tenants with eviction notices!) before anyone could buy at the tenant price. In other words, if you're stabilized, they can never force you to move: either you buy at the tenant price (which is usually advantageous) or you keep renting from the sponsor. The apartment is yours until YOU want to move. Since the landlord is stuck with you anyhow, that also probably means that you can negotiate to move to a bigger/smaller apartment in the building as your needs change. (The women who had my apartment before me were moving up a floor for a bigger place.)

Insight - did I miss something? Did the original poster say they were trying to rent a well-below-market apartment?

I would also like to see how you would adjust your list of criteria above for the situation of someone looking to pay market rent. It seems to me there are a lot fewer hoops to jump through, in that case.

First let me say that I have several friends who are brokers. That said, I love my friends and I tend to loathe brokers. Good brokers work very hard and earn every nickel, but Insight is correct to point out that the best brokers won't touch second-tier candidates and most people are stuck with myopic amateurs who are looking at volume rather than long term relationships.

I'm in a high tax bracket with cash in the bank, recommendations available immediately and all the rest. I've rented probably a dozen apartments as many years. I have never--NEVER--had a good experience with a rental agent. I don't know if it's because the rentals are handled by the rookies, but it's almost a rule.

As for sales, I've bought and sold both residential and commercial in Manhattan, and I can say that the best experiences I've had were with Alan Pfifer at Halstead and a woman who has now retired from Stribling. I won't name the worst sales broker I've come across, but she's a bit of a hustler who handles a particular kind of property in Tribeca. And aside from consistently being misleading, she has smelled of fresh marijuana smoke half of the times we've met. In fact, I think at least once she ducked out to take a few hits, then came back in while I was still looking around.

Insight is also right to say that the landlords rule and cash is king. I friggin' hate it, but it's true.

Quite frankly a lot of non-rental brokers are just as bad. I looked at a bunch of properties last year when I was considering buying (but decided not to b/c I believe the market is about to tank) - I must have seen at least 3 drunk brokers running open houses - 2 of them even offered me beer as they were drinking in front of everyone! I loved my agent, but some of these guys/gals are terrible.

I totally agree re: rental brokers though - nobody ever seemed to have keys (or maybe just not to the ONE apartment you want to see), would lie about "no fee" ("oh, there actually is a fee now") and what is the deal with just giving them a certified check BEFORE the landlord signs the lease? So sketchy....

Broker here... (Tribeca Focused)

I agree, it's tough to find a good rental agent...Probably because there are a lot of sharks out there, from companies big and small. These are more frequent in residential and commercial rentals, less frequent in Sales.

A few tips that may help:
Explain to brokers (if this is the case) to only show you listings that you cannot find on your own or conversely that you are willing to look at anything even if you can find these same apts at no fee. If a broker shows takes you into a building that you can find at No fee, but you didn't know about or would have ever found, don't try to go behind their backs to the same place. Be stand up as you would expect from your broker (you may be entitled to pay the fee if you try and work around this).

Before looking at an apt, ask the address, pics and floorplans if possible...
If they arent willing to even give you the address, I would be weary.
The "Bait and Switch" often applies. There are many companies out there that are reputable for this, but I won't get into that...
If you can go through these listings beforehand, you can save a lot of time.

Ask a friend for a broker that they speak highly of.

BTW-- regarding the $500k, that's not a criteria that I look for. If you make enough, have good credit and are somewhat liquid, youre fine. Otherwise, you may have to post more security. Most landlords will prefer an applicant without pets (not always).

If you're looking in a particular neighborhood, try to find a niche broker...someone with a focus who knows the buildings they will be taking you to.

Hope this helps... and sorry to those who have had bad experiences. Just try not to paint all of us with the same brush ;)

I've been with my broker for years. I've sold two properties and bought one with him. He's wonderful. When he was showing my apartment I gave him 9-9 access to it seven days a week, no notice necessary. I kept the place clean and neat. I respect his work, I have to say that many sellers do not do the same and then wonder why their dump doesn't sell. When looking to buy, I am fully aware he represents the seller, but if I ask a question that has a fact-based answer, he'll tell me the truth. If I ask to see units in other price ranges just for comparison purposes, I get no complaints. He's got a great sense of humor, which really helps if you have to walk many miles together. I've just dragged him around the city for a couple of months before deciding to wait to buy. I've also decided to move, since I don't want to pay around $6000 for my apartment in Peter Cooper.

To tell you the truth, I'm scared to death of the rental process. I like facts and easily determined information and that seems sadly lacking in this area. I called my broker and asked if he might be able to help a bit (I will happily pay a broker's fee, but obviously he would make more with a sale). I'm happy to report that I will now have an extremely competent broker helping me with my rental. In two years when I finally decide to buy, he'll be the first to know. If he's still in the business when I decide to sell again, he'll be the first to know.