Mosque near ground zero

you guys are a riot, but i'm taking my little gremlins to the beach now. julialg seems to be manning the fort of reason very well.

lucille, what's your point? Obviously, it's horrible to actually execute people for this. The point is, based on what's happened (for the most part) with Christianity and Judaism, it's been proven that homosexuality and holy scripture calling for execution can co-exist. I am in no way condoning those actions; I was responding the julialg's post.

"you guys are a riot, but i'm taking my little gremlins to the beach now. julialg seems to be manning the fort of reason very well."

Can I go with you?

wonderboy
about 21 hours ago
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wanderer, educated people are also a minority in the US.

What's your point?

Are you telling me the majority can't read and write? Are you saying the majority are not doctors? Maybe you are talking about the wonderbra standard of education in your head that means nothing to anyone else.

Will the stupid person please sit down.

Next stupid person please!!

I'm that person.

prada totally agree with your post! please practice your religion, build your mosques/centers, just not on ground zero vicinity. there are many types of buildings and structures that would be deemed "inappropriate" for that site. stop taking it personally mosque committee, and if you really are sincere in just wanting to be peaceful & building a center. you are not accomplishing that, nor convincing anyone that your intentions are good.

this is not about rights it is about respect or lack thereof. make no mistake, even peaceful muslims and nomads have no problem camping on and living on the graves of people they have killed. go to egypt and look where the jewish cemetaries are.
no common decency no sensitivity, peacefulness should be spread to people who are not like you, not just amongst your own. if my culture or faith caused heartache and hardship to someone or a group, i would be embarrased to ever consider putting that in their face. for example if my child was a drunk driving and killed his friend that lived down the block, would i want him to park my car in front of their house?

Let Walmart propose to put up a store on the mosque site and we all can laugh at the libs viscously opposing it.

Yes, we're syrupy in consistency.

At least you're honest.

At least you finally wrote a properly-formed sentence in the English language.

People wonder why I think the Right is arguing against the first amendment:

Gingrich: "Nazis don't have a right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust museum" ... "There's no reason for us to accept a mosque next to the World Trade Center."

Wash. Examiner op-ed: "The federal government has at its disposal dozens of land preservation methods that could delay or even halt development of the Islamic center."

Limbaugh: "[T]he Constitution does not guarantee you can put your church anywhere you want it."

[SBC's] Richard Land: People "have the right to have these mosques" but "don't have the right to have them any particular place they want them.

And of course, Rick Lazio and the other GOP candatidates for governor are tripping over themselves to suggest ways they as governor would use their government power to stop this.

So it IS about rights, period.

Again, I think ALL churches etc are a bad idea. I hate religion. But there are more who hate Atheists than there are who hate Islam in the US, according to all the polls on religious tolerance, so....

They're all trying to undermine Liberian property rights as dictated by julialg's bumper sticker.

I hate religion too. At least we agree on something.

jason10006 - "...But there are more who hate Atheists than there are who hate Islam in the US, according to all the polls on religious tolerance, so...."

Yes, I read that news report as well and it just flabbergasted me! ;) I mean come on! Believing in the scientific method and watching the Discovery channel on the origins of the Universe is considered less trustworthy than praying 3 or more times a day to an imaginary friend who wants me to hate women, gays, lesbians, transsexuals, foreigners, different religious faiths, anything from the West, anything from the East, anything from the North, anything from the South, and ad nauseam. Just ridiculous, but at the same time not very shocking either.

Science is just a theory. It hasn't been proven, despite what you liberals say.

Religion, on the other hand, has been around since the world was created 6,000 years ago. Are you so smart that you think all those generations of people since then are wrong?

What was that theory of your hero marx? "religion is the opiate of the people"

If this is limited to one religion for a center. As people point out about moving a church in Baghdad then we have risks like they have in Baghdad and we don't need that here in New York or in Ground Zero.

Look at the latest in Baghdad which we definitely do not need in New York. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/18/world/middleeast/18iraq.html?
Suicide Bomber Kills Dozens in Attack on Iraqi Army Recruits
BAGHDAD — A suicide bomber blew himself up early on Tuesday at an army recruiting office, killing dozens in the first major bombing of the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan — a period made more fraught than in previous years by the looming deadline for American forces to replace their combat mission here with a training role. News reports put the death toll at more than 50, although Iraqi soldiers at the scene of the attack said only that dozens of civilians and security force personnel were caught in the explosion near the Bab al-Muadhan, or Great Gate, on the east side of the Tigris River near the former headquarters of the ministry of defense.
Soldiers said they had pulled 40 bodies from the debris.
Ramadan, when Muslims fast from dawn to dusk, foregoing water, food and cigarettes, has in recent years brought an escalation of insurgent attacks in Iraq.

Alanhart....

The world was CREATED 6,000 years ago???????

You must have really been brainwashed as a child, as most children are by the way.
Apparently religions figured it out long ago...you brainwash children and you have most of them for life.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/world/asia/17stoning.html?_r=1&ref=world

Ahhh The religion of peace. Tolerant of their intolerance.

Are all of you so naive.....you don't think that radical islam is planning their next attack on the USA, most likely NYC!!!

Did everyone forget that the WTC was bombed in 1993!!!!

This is a direct quote from someone who is a "nice" muslim, "Everyone will be a muslim"!!

Has anyone ever read Oriana Fallaci's writings? She was correct, she predicted the infiltration of muslims in Europe. They arrive in european countries as immigrants (legal or illegal), and due to the left leaning governments, are given every privilege.

All women should be up in arms agaist their barbaric customs, what they do to women is unspeakable!!

"left leaning governments" I didn't know socialists were only "left leaning"

Prada... You're totally right about the muslims. The 'left leaning' Americans are completely in denial.

must wean off this topic. i think the first sentence of this article demostrates very well the disconnect on this issue. cordoba was not a city in "spain" where muslims jews and christians smoked peace pipes and sang kumbaya. or, more accurately, when muslims jews and christians smoked peace pipes and sang kumbaya in cordoba, it was called qurtuba, and it was the capital of the islamic caliphate, al-andalus, known today as andalusia. it also the site of the great mosque of cordoba, known today as cathedral of our lady of the assumption if you consider the true nature of the name and its history, it makes the naming of this center and its developers' motives somewhat less than straightforward.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/nyregion/14center.html?_r=2

is the first sentence of this article parallel to the developers' wide eyed almost stupid naivete? or is it intentional misinformation of an almost sinister nature, relying on the blind self righteousness and gross IGNORANCE of the people who will disregard all context and reason to defend what they mistakenly believe to be liberal ideals?

i think the reason it seems like we are all arguing about different things, is because we are

Mike Lupica does a decent piece on the Mosque:
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/16/2010-08-16_families_not_mike__bam_should_have_the_final_say.html

Having the right doesn't make it right.

what he (John Stewart) said, hilariously:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-16-2010/mosque-erade

so ironic.....these muslim islamics blew up the WTC, the symbol of america the 2 tallest bldgs. our financial heart of this country and the world, and now they will use our rights, our laws, which they despise and use it against us, to allow and gain access for their diabolical scheme of ours and the world's demise. how convenient for them to assume our rights to suit themselves when in actuality they do not believe in democracy,nor practice any of our other rights! religion over rules american laws & rights! Who do you think will fund this tax exempt project? who will this create jobs for? make no mistake, this is not a sincere project, no good intentions here. they will take over the world.
remember the Jews in Germany and the Poles, and Russians were happy and never thought something like the Holocaust could happen.

Does anyone doubt that the leader of the regime would take the defense of mass murderers against the American people. The magnanimous citizens have given this fraud the greatest honor. And he has rewarded us with his hatred and scorn. He bows, literally to the saudi king, but spits in the face of any and every hard working American. On every issue he comes down on the wrong side. His tenure is an abject insult to this once great country.

HE will be a ONE-TERM president and he knows it!!!!!

julia give it a rest, you are a racist idiotic bigot.

"julia give it a rest, you are a racist idiotic bigot." DO you think for a moment I care what you say?

Actually, jhochle is an ignorant racist, sympathizing with hateful and racist muslims. Why don't you move to Saudi Arabia - you will be much happier - as will we.

I can guarantee that this mosque will never be built at GROUND ZERO. When the losers begin to call individuals who oppose the mosque "racists", you know the end is near. Within two weeks they will move the mosque.

juliag, to be fair this proposal is not "on" or "at GROUND ZERO". some will try and play cutsie with how far away is enough game? not playing. but its not on the site either.

ragerfan Why do they want the mosque built there? There are over 100 mosques in nyc. It is mostly a commercial area. Why there?

jhochle, you are officially voted off the island, please pack your bags and go.

Because there is where many mosque-goers work, in that mostly commercial area.

Remember when Bloomberg said the Times Square bomber was maybe someone opposed to the health care bill? Do you think the saudi's would let Bloomberg visit the kingdom?

lucillebluth I miss my youth too. ahh to be young again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwIGZLjugKA&feature=av2e

You can build any religious place anywhere you want in this country, as long as zoning laws permit. There are plenty of Christian churches built on what was once "sacred land" to native Americans, or churches turned into mosques or synagogues or visa versa, or churches that were literally built by slave labor, etc.

Actually, Federal law specifically overrides zoning laws ... churches can operate wherever they can afford to buy, rent or build. Thanks, radical right wing, for that law!

jason, dont think many here have been questioning the legality. they get it. but there is some very strong, and i would posit legitimate sentiment about the rationale, motives, funding, leadership behind the project that is fueling some of the anger or opposition.

Actually, Human sensitivity specifically overrides Federal law... mosques shouldn't be put at the site where 3000 souls were murdered in the name of the muslim religion.

Having the right to do something does not mean you should should do it. With rights come responsibility.

Good, julia, then you agree it should be built where it's proposes, which is not at the site where 3000 "souls" (says Nosferatu) were murdered by a small group that named the Muslim religion. It's a couple of blocks away -- a distance I'd feel comfortable with if I won a restraining order against you and your ilk.

And human beings don't have sensitivity -- only innocent unborn children do.

Hey why don't all the ninnies put a fund together and give a bowl of money to the infidels to build somewhere else instead of just jawboning this issue... I elect julialarge to be treasurer. You can build a catholic friary on top of a child day care center, I'm sure you can build higher as a "community sex center."

only if they include a roller rink with a big disco ball hanging from the ceiling.

In the name of islam, in praise for the honorable mohammed,19 muslims slaughtered 3000 souls. They should build their damn 'morgue' some where else.

I like the idea for the JCC in mecca. Oh wait, they're not allowed there.

julialarge you fning little pea brain imbecile.

The pope used to be in the business of pay to pray.
Nunneries/friaries used to be the hypocritical whore houses of its day.
There are accounts of whole platoons of british soldiers who'd rape a mother and her 3 daughters for days on end during US/British war.
Germans killed millions of jews.
Women's genitals are mutilated in Sudan/Ethiopia.
Pakistan's little children are dying by the hundreds as we speak......

you're greatest beef is your blatant "mosqucism."

Why the fk are Germans allowed to live near Auschwitz?

somewhereelse, you think being compared to a religious based country is the goal of our country?

No, he doesn't think ... it's just regurgitation of right-wing blabber that's currently circulating.

Even the soft left are against the mosque. 70% of the American people don't want the mosque to be dancing on the graves of the 3000 people murdered. Only the hard left American hater are for it.

julia, if it's a dancing mosque, then yes, let's build the damn thing!

Unfortunately, conventional interpretation of the Constitution says they have the right to build there. This is why I recommend amending the Constitution to allow Islam to be outlawed.

It's being built in Manhattan, where 46% support it while a mere 36% oppose it. Who gives a flying fuck what they think in Staten Island?

> No, he doesn't think ... it's just regurgitation of right-wing blabber that's currently circulating.

wow, alan, I used to think better of you. Have you really gotten this petty and childish?

Think whatever you want about me ... do a search for "synagogue mecca" and see what you find.

"jason, dont think many here have been questioning the legality. they get it."

Did you read the post right below yours?

Somewherewlse, how man mosques do you think Israel would let 'me build bf they'd stop 'me?

Yes, america is different. We are not religion based. We are values based. Don't like it, leave, it'll make NYC re cheaper for me.

alan, are you quoting numbers from the book of hart? despite your obvious leanings, lets try and stick to the facts. whats your source? most polls say 54%+ NYC residents oppose and only 24+ support. may not be consistent with your view or agenda but lets try and stay on point if you are going to start throwing out numbers.

Julialarge. There are Catholics who take great offense at Jews working on Xmas. I'm totally happy as it's the only way my wife gets Xmas off. But should we outlaw working on Xmas cause it offends a few red necks of the us?

"Unfortunately, conventional interpretation of the Constitution says they have the right to build there. " Wow, the left and the regime's leader actually admits there is a Constitution. You wouldn't think they actually believe in individual rights. They have a right bob-d, we all know that. But, with enough persuasion, I'm sure they will consider the sensitivity of the site. You know bob-d 3000 people were murdered in the name of islam.(Just a stones throw from their land. )

rangersfan, it's all in here: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/7131001.html

alan, what happened to patiently educating people who don't agree with you? or are we only patient with people making openly antisemitic remarks?

-newsflash- American indiands vow to sue all manhattanites as we have built over their ancestrial burial land that is manhattan.

From: american indians for gambling in order to right an injustice through
'pay me beeeytch!' elixirs.

When this this become a jew/muslim issue, se10024? Maybe thatz the way you see it. 'me it's zoning and being American.

w67 - i have been consistent in saying here that i personally do not have an issue with the proposal for the mosque/cultural center/roller rink. that said, the others who have tried to quiet those opposed by calling them racists, bigots, simple-minded folk are ironically and almost comically ndermining their own point of view with their attacks. those opposed have a right to be heard and they generally seem to have legitimate questions - except for those on the extreme.

you have seem to have a pretty nuanced view of the world but think your comparisons above are pretty hollow.

Maybe the American indiands can share space with the 100+ mosques already in NYC.

w67 i was simply referring to the fact that when people made openly anti-semitic comments on this board alan preached(wrong word?) patience and education... seems not to be too tolerant though here with perceived 'anti-muslim' comments
why not take the same approach and try to change minds as opposed to calling people racists
how does saying please build it somewhere else make them unamerican?

alan, couldnt open your link. all i can say is i looked at three recent surveys: nbc news ny, cnn, and another independent survey - i didnt even consider fox news and your numbers are not even close. in fact, all three show exact opposite and the polling was soley for nyc residents.

"You know bob-d 3000 people were murdered in the name of islam."

I know, that's why I suggest a Constitutional Amendment.

rangersfan, do we allow japanese shinto shrines to be erected anywhere near Pearl Harbor?

So if a country declares an all out war, it's legitimate... but when 19 radicals from their own religious right declares their own private war, the entire religion and all aspects of said religion is guilty?

FWIW, i'd still stand by my stance if 99% of nycers did not want it built.

nope, not all guilty as a result of a faction that is maniacal and extreme. but think it okay to have a better understanding behind the plan and its leadership. a little due diligence could go a long way of taking the shrill from both sides. not much to ask in my opinion. i might even stop by and use the roller rink.

You know what's funny, back in the days when I worked at 2 WTC, I could've sworn in my bank there was a muslim prayer room....

maybe you guys should preemptively put a clause into the building of the ACTUAL WTC tower, whereby no muslim affiliated entity can take on a lease, outlaw falafels, veils, muslim looking ppl and put in a good dose of wearing american flag pins for all employees...

see w67 being helpful to the other side... I mean if you're that pissed at a Muslim Centre thats blocks away from the about to be built WTC, maybe you shouldn't have your pants down when it's ACTUALLY BUILT!

and i dont give a rats ass about the polls either, just think if people are going to be throwing out numbers to support their point of view they should at least be in the ballpark.

I'm done with this thread.

ahhhh, one last question. would the group whose building get a free pass if they somehow were connected to radical islam. sorta the opposite of how far away is okay......

Does anyone remember the crowded streets in the middle east with cheering fans on sep 11? Cheering those 19 "radicals"... Cheering the deaths of Americans.

rangersfan, the link I sent you was a Trojan horse containing info about another mosque that's operated within spitting distance of the proposed one -- for 30 years. It's opposed to the new one, whether because it can't compete in badminton facilities or what is not clear.

You'll note that I cited poll numbers for Manhattanites, as opposed to Staten Islanders. The NYC numbers you cite include the lesser boroughs, where the building isn't being built. Quinnipiac, late June.

http://dnainfo.com/20100701/manhattan/manhattanites-support-mosque-near-ground-zero-poll-finds

"LOWER MANHATTAN — Manhattan voters support plans for mosque near Ground Zero, though residents of the outer boroughs are opposed, a new poll found.

The Quinnipiac University poll, released Thursday morning, found that 46 percent of Manhattanites support the 13-story mosque and community center, called Cordoba House. Thirty-six percent of Manhattan voters oppose the proposal and 18 percent are undecided."

The local Community Board, of course, polled 29-1.

No, the mosque shouldn't get a free pass if it's connected to radical religion ... but "somehow connected", not the same.

Julia, this mosque is being opened by Americans.

alanhart... You know that mosque will never be built. But how about gitmo? When is he going to close it? You all on the left should be screaming bloody hell.

You're the one who's cuban ... you tell me.

"'Ground Zero Mosque' Imam Helped FBI With Counterterrorism Efforts"

"...Feisal Abdul Rauf was dispatched on speaking tours by the [Bush] State Department on multiple occasions to help promote tolerance and religious diversity in the Arab and Muslim world. In 2007, he went to Morocco, the UAE, Qatar and Egypt on such missions...

...In February 2006, meanwhile, he took part in a U.S.-Islamic World Forum in Doha, Qatar with Undersecretary of State Karen Hughes, a close adviser to President Bush. Months later, Feisal Abdul Rauf wrote favorably about his meeting with Hughes, noting that he wanted to further the discussion with other members of the administration...."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/ground-zero-imam-helped-f_n_685071.html

So radical.

I object to any institution opening near Ground Zero that collaborated with the Cheney/Bush/Hughes administration. I withdraw my paid endorsement.

jason10006. It will never be built. But, I really thank the left for going to the mat for private property rights. It's a rare and unusal event. Thanks for the transformation.

it's amazing how they can get you all worked up over a non-issue. That's why the two parties will keep selling out future generations to their respective lobbies while you continue to keep at each other's throats over hamas apologists

I've been consumed with this mosque thing today. Haven't seen the news. Can someone fill me in on who the regime's leader been demonizing?

you are consumed with hatred. not healthy. not healthy at all.

Where ya been cc? The mail didn't come.. had to go to the agency today!

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/17/paterson-king-hope-for-mosque-compromise/ It will never be built.

Why don't they put the mosque in Harlem??

I hear the Psycho Pscientologists have an option on the Park Place site, and they'll sublease some of their space to Chabad evangelist/recruiters. Be very afraid.

I never liked giuliani. But we were very lucky he was mayor on Sept 11. Bloomberg is a pandering fool.

pathetic, expected, and inconsequential. quite the circle jerk.

Hey lucillebluth, Where you at the beach?

pathetic, expected, and inconsequential. quite the circle jerk. Great

inlaws' house in stone harbor. we're fabulous freeloaders.