Value of key to gramercy park

I'd say $25,000 tops. It's a recreation item, and that's the capitalized cost of an annual gym membership.

I don't believe that there is anything recreational about Gramercy Park. You are not allowed to "recreate" in the park. No pets, balls, frisbees, large groups, use of the grass -- ie., no recreation. The value of a key, except to the extent that it signifies that the apartment is in a park-facing building, is purely in its snob appeal, and broker babble. You will definitely pay more, but purely for bragging rights. If I could have a bbq in there, I would pay for it. I would not pay for the privilege of sitting on a park bench. I am far more likely to hate the locals who would be found in GP than I would a random stranger or homeless person in the public park around the corner.

I've never actually seen anyone inside Gramercy Park. In fact, the only time I ever recall "seeing" anyone inside Gramercy Park is in the movie "Notting Hill" where Julia Roberts and Hugh Grant were on a bench in the park. I would, however, love to see the insides of some of the homes bordering the park. I wonder if historically, the key had more value than it would today.

But Notting Hill is in London, not New York

And the gardens were Rosemead Gardens in London, also a private park

Ok, I got a question, when you buy a condo on Gramercy and it says that it comes with a key, does that mean the key's cost is built into the monthly maintenance fee, or just that they'd give you a key for the first year and then have to pay out of pocket for it after that?

In the case of a condo, I don't think it's like a Saturn ad where someone puts a key in your hands. I don't think get a key, but instead you get access to a key -- your entire building will have one or maybe two to be shared by all the residents.

So I would guess your share of the key's cost is built into your monthly maintenance, though you'd have to check the building's financials

Anyone BTDT care to comment?

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

My girlfriend used to live near there, and her building had a key. Like Ali said, it was one (or maybe a couple) keys for the whole building. It's a really lame park, though. It ranks pretty high snobbery scale, but to me, it was worthless.

That's the idea of Gramercy Park though. It's more snobbish than UES. You guys read the rules? No posse larger than 6, no dogs, no frisby, no walking on grass. I'm not sure what people are supposed to do there.

Why, sit quietly, and exult inwardly and tastefully in their superiority, of course!

it is what it is and always has been: a nice, quiet place to take a walk or sit and read

get over that you cant barbecue or shit your dog out there--if you own rights to use it and dont like it, dont use it

and since you cant detach the value and mntnce contribution it produces for keyed bldgs, why sweat its value? price the apt as tho it wasnt keyed

Just saw an apartment/co-op last night that comes with a key to Gramercy Park. Our broker says that each unit gets its own key from the Gramercy Park Association for $350/year. Every year you pay your dues- they give you a new key. Apparently, they had to change the locks every year because people made copies gave them out, etc. Hope that was helpful.

What's the point of one or two keys for an entire building? What if someone snags the key before I get to it? Does that mean I can't get into the park? That's absurd. I can just imagine everyone scrambling to get to the key first on beautiful spring and summer days... blech.

got park envy??

So few people use the park that there is likely to be a key available at most times. Each building with access gets 2 keys. Additional keys can be purchased, I believe, but the locks are changed annually and new keys have to be re-purchased; they are not inexpensive. If you want to enter but your building's keys are currently being used, your neighbor will likely let you in if you call to them from the gate.

I understand why people get rankled by the "private" nature of the park, but understanding it historically takes some sting away. The space is actually more like a private yard--not a park. It could have been developed and a building plopped there, or several buildings. Instead, it was granted tax-exempt status for a number of reasons (e.g., agreement by owner to keep it open land, incentive for owner to develop area around the space), but it was never public land. Instead, the land having been privately owned remains private for all intents and purposes. Those who have a deeded right of access (basically the buildings facing the park) have access to it just as any homeowner has access to his/her yard. And just like the homeowner who can exclude others, those without access rights can be excluded.

What does seems odd is the inordinate number of restrictions since the total number of people with access isn't that great. Ball playing can be annoying to others, and dog excrement is unwelcome, so those rules one might better understand. It is hard to see, however, how picnicking on the lawn would cause such substantial damage that the upkeep costs would merit barring the activity altogether.

I feel like Gramercy is underused compared to the other private park in NYC, Sunnyside Gardens in Queens. I'm under the impression that's because the Gramercy trustees want it that way.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Arlene Harrison, who rules over the park with an iron fist, has created the stringent rules in the past several years. Many of the apartments on on the park are owned by older residents who don't have young families, etc. living with them. You can google the information if you really want it, but there's significant tension between the National Arts Club, which has a few keys, and the trustees. There was a lawsuit a few years ago after the trustees kicked the kids out of the park and the association paid a few hundred thousand dollars to resolve it.

Residents can purchase their own key for ~$500. Alternatively, members of the National Arts Club and the Players Club, as well as those staying in the Gramercy Park Hotel, can access keys held by these establishments.

Perhaps this article from the Real Deal will provide some context to the original poster:

Gramercy Park key is a carrot
For buyers, condo developer dangles access to exclusive green space
January 01, 2011 07:00AM

By Patrick Egan

Gramercy19For a new Gramercy condo development, one amenity is key. Gramercy19, a 16-unit building at East 19th Street and Third Avenue, offers access to Gramercy Park, the only private park in Manhattan, through a deal with the historic Players club. The deal is likely boosting apartment sales, although the park leadership isn't enthusiastic about it.

A year and a half ago, Asher Dardashtian, Gramercy19's developer, approached the club, which retains the arts emphasis that inspired Mark Twain and other 19th-century luminaries to found it. "I can say it wasn't easy" to sell the idea, said Dardashtian, who runs A & R Realty Group. In the end, he got his new residents one-year memberships. The developer will pay the first year's annual dues, which run $1,500, after which each Gramercy19 owner can renew.

"It helps increase our membership, which we need," said John Martello, the club's executive director. "And it helps us create a strong tie to the community."

Gramercy19 residents will undergo a less formal membership vetting, what Martello called a "social meeting." Once in, newcomers will vie with 725 current members for two park keys. Martello said that key access isn't much of a problem, but demand is steady during the warmer months.

Most of the 39 buildings fronting the park get two keys; some, like the Gramercy Hotel, have more because they occupy multiple lots. Additionally, each separate household in a park-facing building has the option of renting one key for $350 per year.

The park's self-dubbed "mayor," longtime park trustee Arlene Harrison, wasn't initially thrilled with Gramercy19's arrangement, saying developers had previously used Gramercy Park as a lure when in fact they had no right to a key.

The Gramercy19 arrangement is different. "It all is worrisome to us, and yet there's nothing we can do about it," said Harrison. But she doesn't anticipate any serious impact because only six people may enter the park using one key.

Park proximity always adds value in New York real estate, and Gramercy Park is a prime example. Properties on the park "always retain their value," said Rajan Khanna, a vice president specializing in Gramercy Park for Brown Harris Stevens. "Even with the worst recession, we saw a difference in the 5 percent to 8 percent range between the peak and the bottom." Khanna said homes on the park enjoy a 10 to 15 percent premium over similar stock just blocks away.

While Gramercy19 isn't contiguous to the park, its access appears to be paying off. StreetEasy shows sales prices between $1,185 and $1,880 per foot. Seven units have gone into contract, prompting Dardashtian to bump prices 10 percent. He said everyone's been impressed by the possibility of a key. "They love it."

Tags: a&r realty group asher dardashtian gramercy park gramercy19

"I'd say $25,000 tops. It's a recreation item, and that's the capitalized cost of an annual gym membership."

Are you joking?

Who actually *works out* in Gramercy Park??

The park is kinda nice and kinda boring.
You cant exersize there.
You can stroll...a little.
It's great for old people with good footing and baby nurses.
It's nice to stroll out at night and smoke a cigar in the park.
I once took a date there back in the early 80's and got a little somethim-somethim.
It's practical value is over rated.
For it's precieved status...$15-20K
Actual value...$500(cost of a key)

"For it's precieved status...$15-20K"

Really?

Even if you lived there for a decade, you think it's worth five bucks a day just to walk through a park?

No I do not.
Telling people you have a key is where the value lies.
Depends on how much precieved status means to the buyer.

Here's the test.
Identical layout/exposure/floor/cc/etc.
Price=15K difference (for the key) on a ~1.2M purchase
What do you do?

Remember,
The most I would pay is $500 total.
But that's me.
I know the park is no big deal and could not give a rat's ass about status.
But that's me.
You think their might be a status seeker in this town somewhere?

>> You can google the information if you really want it, but there's significant tension between the National Arts Club, which has a few keys, and the trustees.

As a former auxilliary member of the National Arts Club, that's what I was trying to say discreetly. Good job!

ali

Main value is light, green and sense of space lent to bldgs surrounding the park..value of actual use of park negligible

Any chance the park could be sold and built on?

There was an article recently in the NY Times on the value of having a protected view of a park like Abingdon Square or the park by Duane Street.

Wait a second, Gramercy19's resident's have to pay $1,500 a year to join a club to share 2 keys with several hundred people? Wow, that's nuts.

Btw, I heard there are counterfeit keys out there in the black market. Anyone heard about them?