Realtors doing better than doctors?

I am a physician driving a 2001 Honda with 190,000 miles on it. Let's see a realtor top that!

honda's are the best! toyota's too.

sjdmj,
I suspect you are a very good doctor who charges his patients fairly. Those with the most leased toys do not win.

Judging from doctors I know, and the fact that Manhattan doctors are giving up many of the maisonette doctor's offices around town, doctors' net pay is not keeping up with inflated health care costs.

Hondas are great values. BMW's also will run forever without a problem, and are built like tanks. But you pay for all that luxury so not as great a value as a honda. But if you're smart, you can run one 12 years and it will be cheaper than having bought a cheaper american car.

If you keep the vehicle for the ten to fifteen years it was designed to last, then its a good value. Too many of the people who lease are bad Finance people and/or are living beyond their means. Not all, but way too many.

DP - I think that the best value in BMWs is to buy a 3-ish year old vehicle, maybe coming off lease, and plan to drive it for 8-10 years. Doesn't work for someone who always wants the newest and best, but the skinflint math works well. I could argue either side of paying the Certified Pre-Owned premium, which is large, or taking your chances on an it's-a-BMW-it'll-work-fine-especially-after-only-3-years theory

The trick to BMW's is avoiding the options if buying new, which drives up the price big time.
Very good point about getting one at the three year mark, especially if it has low mileage and proof of maintenance.

Funny, in Manhattan I don't see a single doctor going hungry. Even the primary care guys charge a few hundred just for a checkup that took 20 minutes (not including the time patients wait). The specialists like the derms and whatnot are doing very well. Oh and co-pays and cash payers are fantastic: unreported income for many. Their fees are not keeping up with inflated healthcare costs? I am not so sure. Maybe their fees are part of the reason for inflated healthcare costs.

I also have a 2001 Honda... only 24,000 miles though.

My feeling is: they're preparing for what's coming.
First off the reason they lease as opposed to buy is that you can lease professionally with pretax money (save 50%, or upgrade to a twice better car).
But they know healthcare will be socialized/has been socialized,and prepare accordingly.
As a recently semiretired radiologist (thank you gold)I have been looking to exit myself for a while,and switch careers.The income is high, but assets low and the residual value of the business is decreasing year after year.I still have 20 years of expected "work"and would not recommend medicine to anyone.The return over investment (intelectual, financial,stress, liability)is too low.
Overhead is the reason for inflated costs, not fees.
That said I love my Audi (paid for).

If anyone is looking for a European car maintenance/repair shop in NYC, I own www.tyrolsport.com Anyone from Streeteasy is welcome. Please let me know that you saw the message here, and I'll give you a free oil change. :)

"Funny, in Manhattan I don't see a single doctor going hungry. Even the primary care guys charge a few hundred just for a checkup that took 20 minutes (not including the time patients wait). The specialists like the derms and whatnot are doing very well."

Define "very well".

You overhead for the average doctor in Manhattan includes:

-- $20,000 per month office space rent
-- $15,000 per month malpractice insurance
-- $16,000 per month for office staff salaries and benefits

That's $612,000 per year just to keep the office running, before the doctor pays himself one red cent.

And that's not including the cost of medical equipment or medical school loan payments.

We're getting to a frightening point in America where it's becoming an economic DISincentive to be a doctor. A growing number of men these days are opting for NURSING school because after just four years of schooling they can earn a six-figure income while caring for patients without the insanely long hours, the constant life-or-death responsibility, and the crippling costs of doing business as a doctor.

NYCMatt, agree with your post. Physician Assistants in ny also get paid very well. something specialized like a pa in cardiothoracic surgery can easily have several 6 figure offers right out of a (good) 3 year program.

Agree PMG. When searching on Streeteasy, doctor's offices often come up. I think some are being converted to residential. I think a lot of docs are exiting the profession esply due to the looming healthcare law & it's not good. I think docs put a lot of time, money & effort into becoming docs & they should be compensated accordingly.

"A growing number of men these days are opting for NURSING school because after just four years of schooling they can earn a six-figure income.."

Most nureses are not earning 6 figures. My mother has been an RN for 25 years and has never made over $90k.

Six figures is clearly doable probably easier if you managerial level.
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RN Salary in New York, NY

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RN in New York, NY
$91,000 High Confidence (more than 250 sources)

Average RN salaries for job postings in New York, NY are 25% higher than average RN salaries for job postings nationwide.
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$98,000
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$107,000
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$40,000
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$109,000
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$102,000
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$105,000
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$78,000

Those are all base salaries.

Trust me, if your base is in the $80K range, you'll cross into six figures with no problem by the time you factor all the overtime.

And yes, there is a LOT of overtime for nurses.

The best nurses are the CRNAs. They make $200k +.

Sideline- excellent point about used BMWs. I bought one off a lease once and never had a problem with it. The last one i bought new, but only because of unusual circumstances (i essentially got free money from my employer).

Medical headhunters are hiring out GP's that have a DO or island MD and these guys are getting around 250K. Radiologists get paid multiples of that. I know even nurses that easily clear over 200. I guess medical schools are suffering a decline in applications then - I mean they see all these poor guys walking around and decide they don't want to live in poverty and cancel their applications.

wad, exactly how many island MD's enter the US market yearly? really.

medical school (and specialization, and residency) is a time-consuming, expensive slog. our daughter's ped charged $115 per visit off insurance (this was a few years ago, when our doctor wasn't on our plan and we paid out of pocket), and spent at least 15 minutes with us (the doctor, not the other tests, etc). $460 per hour given the costs isn't much. On the other hand, we went to an UES dermatologist about a small bump on her face and for a 5 minute consultation we were told that it was a cyst and we needed to go to a plastic surgeon. $500 please, for the five minutes, and she had no interest in recommending someone who took our insurance. "If this one doesn't, you need to find one on your own."

med schools are tightly controlled in terms of enrollment, and have been for decades. my guess is that now the standards for admission have fallen. that sounds great for the quality of health care in the us.

plastic surgeons, those people who put you under, orthodontists, dermatologists, there are a few areas that still command huge dollars. but your gp or internal med person, not so much. welcome to the new(ish) america.

aboutready
about 1 hour ago
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On the other hand, we went to an UES dermatologist about a small bump on her face and for a 5 minute consultation we were told that it was a cyst and we needed to go to a plastic surgeon.

Oh great. Another aboutready family medical problem that will soon be blamed on the streeteasy audience. We'll never hear the end of this.

aboutready, actually a very large number of island MD's enter the market. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_medical_graduate

Schools like St. George place a lot of students into residency and several of the schools actually have partnerships with hospitals in the US for accepting residents. From my own personal experience (i.e. I can't provide you with numbers) St. Vincents on the west side has a large number in their program.

Where did you get your "guess" that standards for medical school are dropping? It goes up every year and becomes more and more competitive.

I know a 32 year old ped working in a partnership and she makes at least 200 a year and gets a leased bmw. This doesn't include payments made in cash. When I wanted to schedule a physical with a GP I had to wait 3 months at least. 3 months. That means they were booked solid. So I guess you can give a story and I can give a story and the stories are often worthless. Google medical recruiters online and see the amounts for some of these doctor salaries. It's never too late to go to medical school ;)

And yes, medical school is expensive and long, but many others rack up debt in law and business and whatnot. And while residents get paid little straight out of school, they also have a much more stable occupation. I can do well not going through the emotions I had in the last couple of years. Moreover, other occupations have expenses too.

Btw, from what I understand the reason for nurse's making so much money is due to a shortage and the shortage is because after nurses leave school they rarely pursue an academic path and so the shortage is caused by a limit in education.

Good luck with your child's cyst regardless.

"Btw, from what I understand the reason for nurse's making so much money is due to a shortage and the shortage is because after nurses leave school they rarely pursue an academic path and so the shortage is caused by a limit in education."

No.

The primary reason for the nursing shortage is BURNOUT.

Hospitals have been cutting back on nursing staffs, forcing the remaining nurses to work 10 and 12-hour shifts, covering more patients than ever.

Agree with nicercatch. "The return over investment (intelectual, financial,stress, liability)is too low."

2 ppl I know of went to college together. A worked in finance after receiving her BS and B went to medical school. While A was earning avg $100,000 / yr bonuses for the past 10 yrs, B racked up > $200,000 student loans for 4yrs of med school and making ~$30,000-$50,000 yr for 6 yrs in residency while working 70 hrs/wk (literally working for free). My coworker's daughter has a BS in communications and interned at Morgan Stanley got paid $30/hr last summer. And B has been looking for a job for the past 6 months with no success.

The math clearly indicates choice of business school over med/law school. If that doesn't convince you,

*when a doctor makes a mistake, the lawyers will be on him/her until they suck the last drop of blood out of you. vs

*when you work in finance, even if you bankrupt a nation(s), jail? No way. The govmt will give you more money to fatten your bonuses.

Aboutready, "our daughter's ped charged $115 per visit off insurance (this was a few years ago, when our doctor wasn't on our plan and we paid out of pocket)" has anyone studied the monthly/yrly statement your insurance company sent you on a list of charges they paid out to your docs? In network dos get zip. GHI paid my primary ~$15 /visit, physiatrist ~$33 / visit (hr therapy). My friend tells me that she makes very little money when she is working at the hospital because of all the illegals and no insurance patients (that's why hospitals with ERs are going bankrupt). Most of her salary comes from her private & insurance patients.

I always remember what my dad told me a long time ago. If you walk down the NYC streets and who own all those glamorous buildings? Insurance companies and banks. Where did they come up with the money to build those buildings? not their own pockets, from avg Joes like you and me.

No Med school for my kids. BAD investment period.