FSBO: MLS Listing

Hi my name is Danielleand I am aa real estate agent here in the city at Hercules Realty on 5th and we do offer something like that. I can advertise your property for you on all the proper websites and in return if the price is right on your house you pay us 3% fee. What we will do is advertise it on all of our wesites and other tools we use, we are a International company and we are dealing with a lot of International cliental as we speak.I don't know if you know but right now the in the New York market right now 30% of the market is international buyers right now. If you have any questions feel free to call or email I would be glad to help you. 917-880-2171 email ddattile@herculesrealty.com

Thanks for the comment Danielle but I'm seeking to avoid paying a 3% listing fee (which, assuming the buyer has a broker, will put me at 6%)

I'm curious to see if anyone actually responds with a good answer to your question, radiator.

This is somewhat off the point, but there's been some talk of attorneys having the power to act as brokers -- could an attorney get on MLS and list it for you for a nominal fee?

NYTimes.com and word of mouth is great to attract buyers, but I think the best way to gain broad visibility to broker’s interested in the 3% may be through MLS. I like masterq's idea if you can pull it off. If not, a couple hundred bucks may be worth while. Also there is no reason why you couldn’t market through NYTimes.com first, judge the reaction, and then make the MLS decision later.

I just spoke with the people I bought my place from FSBO and they only used NYTimes.com. They had plenty of activity so, I would try that before spending any other $$ on MLS. Good luck.

All you have to do to get access to MLS is become a REBNY member. So attorneys who are brokers do not have access unless they are REBNY members. The broker community is a cabal.

Thanks for the feedback JuiceMan and totallyanonymous. Not only is the broker community a cabal, but it seems to me like they have pricefixed the commission through their antics. Shouldn't the FTC or DOJ take note of this anticompetitive behavior?

the DOJ sued the NAR last year over this very topic. I think its still tied up in court system. nd you can bet your ass the realtors want it to stay that way.

here u go. we can all track the progress, if you can call it that.
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/nar.htm

Radiator --- What neighborhood do you live in?
I suggest interviewing several brokers who are experienced in your neighborhood who you get along with.
You're trying to save 2-3 points, but you'll likely lose that and more at the end of the day as you don't seem to know about how to market your place properly.

The worst thing an FSBO can do is list it themselves at the wrong price and not properly market right away. It will give people the impression that its undesireable as it lingers.

One last piece of advice (stay away from brokers who cannot spell.)

radiator- I have seen a a few FSBO listings on the UES sell via NY times listings at similar or better comps than the broker was getting. As a buyer the two issues I have encountered are pricing and staging. Would suggest a friend do the open house for you to remove any emotional component between you and the buyer and hire someone for the photos. Also, many listings by brokers are mispriced as well, so doubt you fair any worse in figuring this out esp with co op prices now public domain. Think you will be very successful if there is a recent comp in your building.

JamesA--What makes you think I don't know how to market properly? By asking how to get on the MLS? The more I hear about doing it yourself the more encouraged I get. It's not rocket science. Pricing an apartment in a co-op with recent comps for apartments in the same line isn't too difficult. roboco-you raise a good point about not being present at the open house--thanks.

Seller's Broker brings a few things to the table:

1. Full time person working on selling your house. If you're a busy professional, then you may need this.
2. Access to MLS. Though posters above note this may not be necessary.
3. Pricing help. (Though I know I'll be streeteasying and propertysharking carefully and will do the pricing myself -- probably a bit below market to attract a bunch of buyers, then introduce a "last and final after interest has built").
4. Co-op negotiations, etc. (Brokers do damn all in this regard in my experience, aside from send a couple of faxes.)

I think the principal reason that people on this board are avoiding brokers is that they're so damn expensive. I hire someone to clean my apartment, I hire a lawyer to help me sell it, I hire someone to give me a massage. All seem like reasonably priced services. Why on earth do Brokers cost so much?? There wouldn't be so much FSBO talk if brokers charged less.

Masterq---

1. "Full time person"??? Ha. thats a laugh. They get some schmuck to take pictures and get the IT kids to slap the listing up on the site. They show up to an open house or two and field emails and calls. Lets be real. The brunt of their job is spent getting the listing, not selling it, especially in the last 6 years.

2. Access to MLS. Not for long. See DOJ v. NAR.

3. Pricing help? With current technology, its painfully easy to assess comps and the market.

4. You have a point here, particularly in coops.

I think the main reason people avoid brokers is because a majority are penny pinching incompetent phonies. Sure, many are good, but we dont have the time to go through all of them and many are good sure, just like any other field. And to equate a real estate broker with an attorney or accountant or other professionally trained vocation is simply laughable. Brokers tried to charge less (Foxton's) but the cabal wouldn't give them access to their listings, so they folded.

Good point masterq. Brokers that bring buyers deserve 3%. Brokers that sit at your open house and hope buyers come to them don't deserve 3%. Are there any brokers out there willing to be a listing agent for .5 - 1%?

radiator - Pick a lawyer that has helped someone sell without a broker. A lawyer experienced in FSBO will give you further protection and be an invaluable sounding board throughout the process.

i'd be especially wary of any lawyer holding themselves out to act as both lawyer and broker in the same transaction (for someone else) unless they're a close friend. notwithstanding that its a major conflict of interest, I can't imagine that any lawyer would do it unless again they are known personally to the buyer and doing same as a favor or are at least as hard up for cash as many brokers seem to be.

I think Juiceman doesn't mean "hire a lawyer who will also be a broker" -- what he means is get a lawyer who can answer your dumb questions and be alert to any pitfalls in the selling process. That's not much extra work for a lawyer at all. Just get someone who's experienced and helpful. It's worth a $500 or $1000 premium, especially when you're saving 3%.

thanks for the clarification. i'm amazed any reasonable minded person even uses a broker, unless they don't care about pissing money away. If you have an ounce of people acumen you can do exactly what they do and probably better. real issue is the access to MLS which is truly invaluable. Another issue is that when I see an FSBO, I automatically deduct 5% from the price figuring the seller's cheap and didn't want to pay a broker. Many FSBO's I've dealt with were pricks and it was clear why the couldn't deal with a broker. they couldn't deal with anyone. but if you approach selling your place in a detached fashion, you'll be fine. for instance, no one gives a rats ass how much you spent on your facuets or how much you like them. also, your choice of decor may suck to 9 out of 10 people. If these things don't faze you, then you've got some broker in you.

Yes masterq, that is what I meant. Thanks for clarifying. When I bought, the seller’s attorney was their sounding board and helped them think through the negotiation and terms of the deal. He was not acting as the broker. As for thinking the owners were cheap and you can automatically deduct 5%, my experience was different. I think the place was priced fairly and in the end, I walked away thinking I got a good deal. I bet if you asked the sellers, they think they got good deal as well. What most likely happened is that I paid the right price for the place and we split the 6% (I also did not use a broker).

Radiator,

The fact is, not all brokers fit under the rap sheet of not doing anything to help sell your place. For some of us working at the bigger companies, fortunately we have a tremendous amount of info that gets fed to us regarding the markets. We are constantly getting updated minute to minute on the current mortgage crisis and the housing trends. Not to mention, some of us spend our days and nights consumed by the real estate market always looking for more info and reviewing inventory to make us even more of an asset to our clients. Plus, the outreach that we have as REBNY members and the amount broker to broker relationships at our disposal that have buyers looking for places are priceless. Even though it doesn't seem like "rocket science," most of the time a seller admits he would like the assistance of a broker. For the brokers that are professional and are good at what they do, this is total dis on our industry and seems to be uncalled for. Every profession has their group of unethical and incompotent workers that give their industry their own stereotypes and bad perception. You should spend more time trying to qualify a great broker to sell your home, then spend your day blogging with people who are also bitter about paying a 5 or 6% commision fee as well. The percentage of money you think you will save on our commision, you will most likely give back over the additional length of time you spend listing your apartment incorrectly. Lets be realistic, there are some success stories with FSBO's, but not as many as we have at Prudential Douglas Elliman. Last but not least, how qualified are you in presenting a qualified board package? Qualifying Buyers? Staging? ETC...

Salvatore Imposimato
Prudential Douglas Elliman
Tribeca Gallery

Sal.. obviously you spend your day blogging too. keep your pro broker babble to yourself. we're not children here. And when hopefully the DOJ breaks up the monopoly on MLS, we'll see how useful brokers are.

By the way also, I knew brokers troll Streeteasy. every broker I have asked claims they never heard of it. Probably b/c it provides easy access to comps for the "laymen".

Sal,
I didn’t start the discussion with the intent to insult your profession. What I sought was advice regarding MLS listings and how necessary it was to the selling process. To your point that “most of the time a seller would like the assistance of a broker” I would agree. That’s a no-brainer: of course, all things being equal, people would prefer to have a broker market and sell their home. But, thanks to your anticompetitive industry, things are not equal by precisely a 3% margin which is why I will go it alone and spend a couple of weekends hosting open houses and fielding calls while saving myself (and maybe even the buyer) $$$. By the way, insulting people while at the same time trying to sell your services isn’t very smart. Just when I was beginning to give brokers the benefit of the doubt…

Finally, to answer your questions:
how qualified are you in presenting a qualified board package? Do you mean sending the buyer a board app to fill out? How difficult is that?
how qualified are you in Qualifying Buyers? Do you mean asking them to fill out a financial statement and confirming their debt/income ratio is in-line?
Staging? Do you mean cleaning and de-cluttering my apartment?

I think I can manage that…

--to the specific question of presenting a board package for your buyer. I sit on an UES co op and can say with certainty the two FSBO applicants we have processed were the most complete packages I have reviewed. This is for the simple fact the owners asked us what to emphasize for our review and what not to care about before they had the buyer submit the information (i.e. no middle man). I have interviewed many broker sponsored buyers (including elliman's) and find they speak to the managing agent (who truly does not know what we want) and consequently we do not get the information we want and too much of what we don't want. They tell their clients to dress up when we prefer casual etc. I find brokers truly clueless in this specific competency. Just because the client passes the review (most do anyway) does not mean we are happy with the broker's presentation.

another thing Sal, and perhaps they didn't teach you this in broker school, that 5 or 6% commission we are all "bitter" about was set by you and your industry, in a collusive and arguably unlawful manner. It was not the marketplace and certainly not the seller who fashioned that rate. Left to market dynamics, that inflated commission would drop precipitously. As you know, good luck negotiating a lower commission out of corcoran or your shop which is why people FSBO to begin with and face it, you're not worth 6%. I can pose for a web site picture and write a blurb about how I "honed my nyc real estate skills..." blah blah blah and have a "keen sense of the neghborhoods" and am a "lifelong resident..." bla blah as much as the next guy, and show up at an OH and glad hand folks and pass along offers back and forth and point and click. lets be honest here. Brokers are an anachronism in the current marketplace to many sellers.

Sal, how qualified are you? Are you representing any residential listings in Manhattan? Have you ever? I think it's so cute that Elliman allows brokers to write their own bios!!

http://www.prudentialelliman.com/mainsite/agents/agents.aspx?BID=SAI

Link at today's CNNMoney.com including how a FSBO can list on MLS

http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/18/real_estate/home_sale_broker.moneymag/index.htm?postversion=2007101814

The title of the article is Homeowners: Sell it yourself

Thanks for the link Pez. The flat fee listing service may be the way to go...

This might be interesting to you all - 60 minutes piece on realtor commissions under threat...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/11/60minutes/main2790865.shtml

buster2056, that made my day. Hilarious.

Agreed, Juiceman. Frikkin Hilarious. Did you read the expanded version??

Sal, Brokers are great. Worth every penny. Can you introduce me to Cameron Diaz?

Thanks for link, Pez. Looks like that's the answer to this thread.

I just threw up my lunch reading that.

lets not pile on Sal. Frankly, sounds like he's transitioning perhaps into brokering? Aside from that, if he;s banging Cameron Diaz, why the hell shill for Elliman? Either way, brokers are larvae and unnecessary and anyone with half a brain and the ability to fill out a form can become one.

--agreed...radiator can you please let us know if you find a flat fee MLS listing service for manhattan?

Does anyone think that print ads in the NYTimes is important to advertise and open house/FSBO? I assume most people are internet savy, but would be curious to know if people still rely on the Sunday paper edition. Thanks