New Kitchen Cabinets

I would need more information. Is it a galley kitchen? How many cabinets? What kind of finish?refinished maple for the interior?

renovated a kitchen once prior to sell with HD cabinets. Horrible experience and service with poor installation. Delayed delivery but looked beautiful for the unprofessional eye and expedite the sell. Do not use HD if you are planning on staying for a long time in your apartment.

WHat about contertops? Was that included in the quote?

The price quote is only cabinets---11 cabinets. We have one full wall of cabinets plus dishwasher (10 feet with doorway) one wall that will have about 8 feet of cabinets (and stove/microwave) and then cabinets to cover our fridge and W/D and one pantry cabinet on the other wall. the cabinets will go up to the ceiling (2 cabinets and our ceiling is about 109 inches I believe).

We have a contractor to do all the other work and originally he told us he had someone to do custom cabinets, but for some reason he is recommending us to use HD instead... and we aren't sure we want to do that..
Thanks!

Oh and we would like wood (maple?) painted white. We plan to stay in our apartment at least 5 years so want something that looks nice and holds up well but doesn't have to be the highest quality...

ew:

$15,000 is way too much. When I've renovated with Home Depot Mills Pride cabinets cost
was about $100/linear foot for high-quality 30" high maple, including doors.

HD discontinued Mills Pride in favor of an inferior cabinet which, not surprisingly
considering its reputation for customer service, costs twice as much.

There is absolutely no need for $1500/foot cabinets. You should be able to get nice quality
for a fraction. Try some of the specialty design stores in Manhattan. Even they were a lot
cheaper than that when I last looked.

I will give you my millguy. Email me at primerenovations@mac.com

He is very reasonable and very good.

of the cabinets sold by ikea, their better quality cabinets are very good (at least as good as mills pride and kraftmaid) and excellent value, and their designs i find superior---they also carry countertops at good prices, and have excellent selection/quality of handles/knobs at great prices--also nice faucets

sounds high....i think should be below $10k...

if its just cabinets you are quoting

We are also shopping for cabinets and have looked at custom cabinets for an 11 x 7 galley kitchen with a computer area placed in a 6 foot wide closet right outside the kitchen customer with 36 inch high cabinets came to 16.5K for cabinets. All wood maple.

Even with Kraft Maid we found that the price depended on the quality of the cabinets and woodwork and what upgrades you choose. We were told approximately 20% increase cost for each upgrade and there are approximately 3 choices in quality so if you the top grade versus the lowest grade the cost can quite different.

It is very hard to evaluate prices with info given here. $1500/linear foot is not a bad price for high-end installed 100% custom job exclusive of taxes (if maker installs them then you can get tax waived as capital improvement). This should include counter top of Ceasarstone-type quality, soft-close drawer hardware, ply-wood boxes with wood veneer (like maple), MDF doors (they take paint better than wood and won't warp). If you are painting doors, there is no point in using wood over MDF.

Prices can also be more than this, but I'd say if you get to this price point, you are getting a fairly good deal for very highend job. You can definitely go lower in pricing, but with each reduction, you give something up: quality of hardware, type of counter top, degree of customization, finsih level and durability of work.

I dont think that spending a gret deal on cabinets is wise for two reasons. First, thay all
start to look stale over time because of exposure to cooking fumes and air. Second, style
and color preferences also change significantly over time.

Also, if and when you sell, there is a good chance your buyer will rip your kitchen out in
order to install one he/she/they prefer.

rb345: all good points. If planning to move within 5 years, I would spend as little as possible since you are unlikely to recover any of it. What a nice kitchen does is make a place sell faster--it doesn't typically increase what you get for the place. No one has mentioned it, but include cost of new appliances and they should be appropriate to level of kitchen cabinets. Don't cheap out 'cause it'll ruin the whole look.

As for style, white or off-white is always "in." Classic lines, no curly-Qs, no fussy edges on stone countertop. Inset doors and drawers with single panel door and drawer fronts and simple, tasteful nickel pulls are always in style. They've been in style for 75 years and that isn't going to suddenly change. At least for prewar and most post war interior designs. If you want to be more contemporary, avoid fads and just keep to simple white /off white with clean lines. Avoid boldly colored glass tiles, "different" stone counters, taste-specific hardware, freaky weird faucets. In all cases just keep the floor a continuation of whatever is around it--hardwood continued from adjacent areas is fine.

At all costs--do not install "country" kitchen in a NYC apartment. Don't put Mexican tiles in NYC. Don't go for "Tuscan" looks. You live in NYC. Respect that. Don't be Disney and go for some suburban-shmaltzy ridiculous, taste (if you can call it that)-specific look.

I used Armstrong cabinets - not the highest quality, but all wood and full extension drawer slides. About $3,500 for my 8' galley kitchen. I agree with Primer and Wbottom - either go custom, or go Ikea - one is likely worth the premium (custom) and one will make you feel like you got more than you paid for (Ikea.)

Could you reface instead of putting in new cabinets? I'd stay away from Home Depot, I've heard nothing but bad things about them, such as not even showing up. In my own experience, any time I've had anything delivered by HD, they either sent the wrong item, or packed it carelessly, or didn't deliver on specified date, and not even call to let me know. They're really awful.

Kylewest made some excellent points. We redid our kitchen with simple white cabinets, and the white made the kitchen look much bigger. Plus, they clean very well with Mr. Clean's magic sponge, so after several years, our kitchen still looks fresh.

Lanzz, who did you use for your cabinets?

Lanzz - What about the quality of your Armstrong cabinets do you not like? I'm just starting my search for cabinets, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

Some facts for 1st timers

Most of the kitchens you find in stores are stock cabinets. What I mean by that is they come in certain sizes. that is one big difference with custom cabinets, those are made for the space you have. If it is in the budget I would do custom cabinets. If budget is tighter you can get a semi custom which is a kitchen that has standard cabinets but will all the filler pieces that you need and you can get panels for appliaces as well.

You will find that you will pay more for a custom kitchen from a store like Poggenpohl then you would from a Millshop that doesn't have the overhead that a store does.

If I was in the market for kitchen cabinets I would look at all three options and then decide.

Recently, I posted about Scherr's. The OP asked originally about HD, but since the discussion has broadened, I will mention Scherr's again. They make many of the custom cabinets you will buy for a big markup from kitchen cabinet dealers. They are unusual because they also sell directly to the public.

You can buy Scherr's custom cabinets either assembled, assembled and finished or ready-to-assemble. They are high-quality custom cabinets, my daughter has them and is very happy with them. She worked with them long-distance, bought RTA maple cabinets. She and her husband put them together and had someone install them. I believe the final cost for the cabinets was about $300/LF. As an added plus, for those for whom this is still important, the cabinets are made in the USA. They are not in the same ballpark as stock and semi cabinets you find at HD such as Kraftmaid (which I think are pretty junky cabinets). Scherr's also makes cabinet doors to install on Ikea carcases. If you do a web search, you will find out a lot about this cabinet company.

MDF was mentioned in a previous post. MDF can be tricky in kitchen cabinets. If the cabinets are well-constructed and finished correctly, there's no problem. However, when MDF is not sealed right, it can absorb moisture in kitchens and bathrooms and swell up. It depends on the manufacturer.

another thought--dont get crazy with handles--if the handles you choose require drilling through cab doors, keep it simple, with one hole, ideally---allows one to change down the road

agree with kyle re the country, suburban, cheeseball, overdone with molding and edgework, brass, crap that so many nouveaux think ages their money

keep it clean and simple

cheese it up and you make your apt less saleable than had you not renovated

Scherr's looks like a good alternative to Home Depot but I think they are more semi custom, all orders are custom but they dont make custom cabinets, just to clarify. They have a very big selection but you do have to choose a door that they make not one that is designed by someone else.

I agree with Bottom as far as drilling one hole for the knob. I have had the experience where someone wanted to change their own pulls but we couldnt find new ones to match up with the two holes

Try 646-721-2266 his name is Sharon and he can help with great low budget cabinets

http://www.allwoodfast.com/ THESE ARE FABULOUS!

I got solid wood cabinets, maple front, plywood boxes (no MDF) for my whole kitchen for $4K. My cheapest home depot (I call it home of de poor) quote was $12K for the Kraftmaid. They are gorgeous, with soft close drawers and doors. You need to order sample doors, they will come to your place and you can keep them and see what you like. Ours look like a million bucks.

You'll need an installer (HD quoted $20K! for that) and someone to help you take delivery. The truck delivers curbside. Call these people, they're excellent and cheap: http://nymag.com/bestofny/services/2008/handyman/ My husband installed ours in two days.

You will be amazed at how nice these are. Order some doors just to see the quality for $20 http://www.allwoodfast.com/sample_doors.aspx . We got mullion doors and ordered custom glass fronts from a guy in jersey for about $800. We choose Langston Cinnamon and it's gorgeous.

For $5K, and some sweat, we have MUCH NICER cabinets than what HD quoted $35K for. Seriously, it looks like a $50K kitchen.

I should also tell you that with http://www.allwoodfast.com you email your measurements and they send you CAD drawings of your kitchen all designed and laid out for free. HD requires $$ just for that, even if you don't order from them.

these all look fine if you like wood-grain, panelled, doors with lots of heavy molding----just the "country" look i don't think belongs in NYC circa 2011--even in a prewar apt

i prefer clean, usually white, low-detail, highly functional, uncluttered designs

to each their own

The budget which you had in mind before you start shopping for cabinets should not be relevant to your decision to buy, because:
When in a showroom, all kitchen cabinets look very similar. At the same time the price may vary significantly. There are four major factors which determine the price:
*The manufacture and the material
* The quality of the installation
* Warranties
*The company which stands behind the entire project, its reputation and referrals
This is just like buying a car. Computer Aided Design made it possible that all modern cars look cool outside; however, they all have different features, reliability and standards for the service. When designing your kitchen, you should think not only of the budget, but also of what you are willing to sacrifice for the price. In the end, you always get what you are paying for.
Cheap material may fade, chip and pill. Wood can expand or contract and then the doors won't close. A bad installation can cause damages which are not covered by the manufacture. Good warranties provide only good companies and therefore peace of mind is a part of the purchase.
When I design kitchens, I believe that along with the chosen material, the customer should always get the best quality, real warranties and 100% guaranteed satisfaction. This is possible by distinguishing between "needs" and "wants". So, this way the final budget should be affordable.

Yes, to each their own. I can't see paying big dollars for melamine, (and home depot is just a rip-off) but I do agree most of their cabinets wouldn't work in a modern setting. These give a pretty clean look, though:http://www.allwoodfast.com/kcb.aspx

The cabinets we purchased from them look very good in the context of our prewar, 1900 building. We added granite countertops from a company in long island, that put them in for $1500, which came to about $50 sq ft.

Home depot is a rip off.

I did find it odd that a prewar had no window moldings, and that we had to put them in. What is up with that?

Needs,

You seem to put a link on all your posts to that company, do you work for them?

No, I don't. I'm just thrilled that I was able to break through the home depot stranglehold. I was stunned and amazed at the ridiculous pricing for melamine. I STILL don't understand how they can quote $100-$200 a linear foot and then come up with $13,000 for a kitchen that's 7 feet long. I don't understand that metric AT ALL. PLUS $20,000 to install. Seriously? Whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, plus I paid them $100 just to measure it and then they wouldn't give me my measurements. So I'm just trying to be helpful with some info that worked well for me.

Plus I can't contribute much else to this forum, since I don't have knowledge of any other subjects.

Fair enough,

I think HD subs out all installations, 20k to install is crazy but so is the 13k, Over the years I have had several clients that did purchase them and the cost of cabinets came out to around 5k. I have not installed any in years but I cant imagine them going up that much.

@Primer: You and I agree on that point; cabinets have gone up like crazy! I don't understand it at all. My aunt got HD cabinets in Florida several years back, a huge 20 x 20 kitchen. That came to about $12K but included installation. I think it was 2004. Seemed reasonable, they were nice, maple fronts, etc. So I don't understand the new pricing either. Based on my aunt, I was expecting around $3-4 K for what came to 12 boxes. How they ever got to $1000 per box, I'll never understand. It's crazy! They did say they would send a separate contractor out to estimate installation, but they roughly guessed $20k.

A lot of stuff has gone up in the last few years. I recently got 3 painting quotes (before the lead paint regulation/tax) and they were around $6K. I had the same space painted in 2001 for $1500. All 3 were within a couple of hundred dollars. One painter said the paint alone would be about $1500. What?

If I put that into a compound interest calculator ($1500, ten years) I get 15% growth rate. What the heck is that? At 3% annual increase my painting quotes should be closer to $2200 now.

What do you think is going on Primer?

Suckers became willing to pay huge amounts because real estate can only go up up up and a 10-year-old kitchen is outdated.

Ikea cabinets haven't gone up in price much at all.

My white lacquer cabinets, vintage 1988, don't look much different from modern-style cabinets sold today. They're probably MDF, not high quality, but they clean up well. Running 42" high and custom-sized, I have never been willing to swap them for new cabinets, since the replacements would cost plenty and not add much utility. I do recommend organizers and pull-outs from the Container Store to update old boxes.

@PMG: We HAD to replace our cabinets, they were circa 1966 (seriously, our kitchen was the twin to Holly's kitchen in Breakfast at Tiffany's, all the way down to the handles). Most of the white MDF cabinets look good forever, but these were wood, painted white (40,000 layers) and they were just scary. Stains that came through the paint, etc. If ours were like yours, PMG, I would have kept them, no problem.

@Alanhart: I agree, it seems like contractors are trying to tag along on the profits made in a home sale. I like Ikea, myself, and agree they make some really nice modern cabinets.

Needs,

The thing I dont understand is how the HD was so much, There are many millshops that charge $1,000.00 a linear foot but that could be for a cabinet that is 8 feet high. A lot of my clients spend round $650 for a linear ft for custom kitchen cabinets.

As far a the painting, I assume for 6k you probably have a 2 bedroom apartment in Manhattan. I am not sure how the paint could be $1,500.00 unless you were using Scuffmaster, thats is about $200.00 a gallon.

Alan,

I dont think people ae suckers for buying what they want at the market rate. If someone wants to spend 150k on their kitchen and they are happy with it, it doesnt make them suckers.

Needs,

Thankfully their is a bidding process, I am glad that most people get more then one bid. I dont think we are trying tag along profits. There are some contractors that provide a great service and should be able to make enough money to suport their family.

What do you think a contractors profits should be? What kind of percentage of the project?

@Primer,

I don't know why HD was so high either. The OP and I had similar experiences with HD. The prices were amazingly high. I didn't try a custom shop because I don't know where to find one, and I just assumed they would be two to five times the cost of HD. I never would have dreamed that HD would be equivalent in price to custom millwork, or I would have tried that route. Thanks for that info, I think that's helpful for the OP.

As far as contractor pricing, I'm basically saying that I can't figure out the price jump. If I factor in what is supposed to be inflation, I can't figure the big jump between my 2001 and 2010 quotes. Please let me know if you have an explanation, not being aggressive, just can't figure it out, since it's the same jump all across three painters (who supposedly don't know each other).

I think everyone should be able to make a fair wage to support their family.

Maybe my painting guys all got Porsches for their families? :D LOL!

Needs,

That was funny, thanks.

I can only speak for myself but our costs have gone up, not just inflation but everything. How much was gas 10 years ago. How much was it to go to the movies? It's all relative. In 2003 I think I charged about $7500.00 for a bathroom now I have to charge at least double that for making the same percentage.

Thanks to everyone for posting! Funny thing is I completely forgot I posted this (I'm pregnant) and all of a sudden today remembered and am so happy with all the responses.

We spent this weekend going out to a few more custom kitchen places in the Bronx and Manhattan and getting estimates (and with only one back so far, it was slightly less than HD and included installation).

Either way, HD is definitely out now that we learned a lot more about kitchens, etc.

In terms of color, we always planned a white kitchen, somewhat simple cabinet faces (although I prefer a raised box in the middle to a recessed box), not too pricey hardware and wood flooring (which is what our apartment already has) and I read is softer on the knees when standing in the kitchen all the time.

A couple more questions if you guys don't mind. In terms of countertop. I LOVE white on white, but really only like when its marble (pricey and stains). If its granite I prefer black. Other thoughts on colors/countertops? Backsplash will be something simple that blends into the kitchen well.

And on appliances, we were going to go for the subzero because it fits the tiny space well (or a Liebherr if we can't get 27 inches to fit) and then get a Frigidaire stove and dishwasher. Are we making a mistake not purchasing a Viking or Wolf? Our apartment is 2BR and I feel like the kitchen is almost too small for a professional cook anyway. (Although once my baby is born, if I'm lucky enough to work part-time, I would like to become a much much better cook!)

Is there a reason you are going with a tiny fridge? Can't you reconfigure to go with a bigger fridge, since you are moving counters, cabinets, etc? We only lost about 6 inches of cabinet and gained a ton in fridge. We chose a 22 cu ft "Counter depth" (that's the key to fitting in our narrow kitchen) fridge, and it's nice to have a fridge that fits everything.

EW,

I think the best way to go is to get Caesarstone (Blizzard). Some will say it is not as nice as natural material becuase its man made but it is beautiful and not as pourous so you dont have to worry about staining, more so whe nyou go white.

As far as appliances Liebherr's are great, I would look into GE profile for the other appliances, well worth it. I dodnot think you are making a mistake by not selecting the Viking, unless you cook a lot and budget isnt so much of an issue.

Wood flooring is much softer then anything else in the kitchen. I have amarble floor in my kitchen and my feet kill me if I am cooling for a while.

For the baby Williams Sonoma has a great new machine to make baby food

so we're weighing in on finishes/appliances. So here's my two cents:

Fridge: if you can make 30" work, do it. Trust me: you'll be frustrated with a 27" counter-depth fridge. it is worth the space sacrifice to find a way to incorporate a 30" Liebherr (has two compressors so is more efficient than sub-zero and has much better service record, plus it looks awesome--literally just as nice). Viking/Wolf stoves are overkill and a bit cliche and "arriviste" imo for a small apt kitchen. You can upgrade the look and quality if you like with something in between standard and pro with something like the Thermador http://www.thermador.com/cooking/ranges/prd304ghu-professional-series-30-inch-dualfuel-standarddepth-range-porcelain-rangetop For over-the-range ("OTR") microwaves you have fewer choices if you want a convection microwave that "vents" well (really more filters and distributes heat when using many burners). There is a Dacor and Viking: I strongly endorse the Viking (which matches the Thermador range perfectly, incidentally). If interested just ask and I'll explain why. I second Caesarstone versus marble. Blizzard, Misty Carrera, and Pebble are all excellent choices. The are nearly impervious to staining from red wine, vinegar, berries, etc and acids matter little to them. They are very tough to chip, resist heat and come in very large slabs so you get a seamless look. Phenomenal in an urban kitchen. Wood floors work fine. Add a gel mat in front of sink if you like for even more comfort.

I'd love to have a larger fridge, but we're adding a w/d, so that's why we have to cut back on fridge space.... its a big tradeoff but that's what you have to do in small NYC apts. right? :)

I liked white marble as well, but I decided it would show dirt too much. Same with black, our kitchen floor is black marble and you'd be surprised how many white specks exist in the world and they seem to all be flocking to my floor. I've found that color extremes tend to show dirt.

We ended up with Gallo Veneziano granite (google has tons of pics) which has blacks and whites in a peachy/pinky/beige base. But we came to that conclusion by taking a cabinet door to a granite place and holding it up to the granite. You'd be surprised how some colors work and some just don't.

Now my counters seem to never show dirt. I'm thinking they're dirty right now, but who cares? I can't see it! (LOL)

Even if you end up with plain white cabinets, there are so many shades of white that it's a good idea to take a sample door with you when shopping for tops.
I think a W/D is a fair trade for a little bit of fridge, BTW.

I've had white marble for 3+ years, so far so good. It's not pristine (but mainly bcs I'm LAZY) - if I did a wipe up at the end of the day, it would be pristine. Stains, to my surprise, are mainly tomato-sauce based. Everything else comes off.

One more alternative, which not everyone loves but i do like it more and more everyday is Corian, Not only is the new decorators white very clean looking every once in a while you can sand it and it looks brand new.

I think these looks are very classic:

1) http://www.flickr.com/photos/stefanier/2267117116/ - Kraftmaid w/ soapstone
2) http://www.architecturaldigest.com/homes/spaces/2007/07/somethingsgottagive_slideshow#slide=4

But of course these are houses, so maybe too "country" for a Manhattan apt. I like Victoria Hagan's take on the classic painted white wood kitchen too:
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/01/19/dev_houses_itty_bitty_package_citys_commishes_switch_places.php#devonshire-house-br-model-3

My kitchen is something like this (I think it is classic-a-little-retro-60s):
http://www.housetohome.co.uk/products/type/furniture/kitchen/Integrale_units_in_walnut_veneer_with_letterbox_handles_27693.html?subslug=

The prices above don't make sense. I put a new kitchen (much larger than what is being discussed here) in my weekend house, with a 5x8 island, separate "butler's pantry," with relatively high end custom inset maple cabinets (Plain & Fancy) that was in the $45K range and installation was 10% added to the total cost,which was under $5K for a lot of cabinetry. And, for those debating counters, we have soapstone on the exterior and an enormous 3" think slab of calcatta marble on the island. I would highly recommend either. Unless you are fussy about stains and chinks, marble looks and works great (but also have poured concrete in my apartment, so I am used to counters that are a maintenance issue). I would not have a kitchen with just marble as you need some places that you can make a mess with impunity.

hi everyone. I need advice on kitchen cabinets. I'm looking for something cool and thoroughly aluminum cabinets doors?

There is a list of about 40 kitchen cabinet manufactures on this page - http://www.construction-bids.com/cabinets-install.php
Why dont you just look around and find a better price. Home depot isnt going to necessary have the best quality or price.

I see that this is a long thread, but I must comment on the pricing. I live near Houston, Texas and our family has been in the custom cabinet business since 1973 and construction since 1923 (all in Texas). We specialize in Cabinets in The Raw (no finish, countertops, or door knobs). We build and install cabinets in our 2500 sq ft shop (prior to shop, we built on site until the year 2000). Basic paint grade cabinets in the raw are $220.00 liner foot (includes all wood material, hinges, guides, delivery, and installation labor). A painter generally charges $60.00 a liner foot (includes material) and granite or Silestone Countertops range from $35 sq ft - $75.00 sq ft depending on grade (includes installation). Again, these prices are for the Houston Area and will differ depending on your local socio economic status. I know cabinet men in the river oaks area charging $550.00 a liner foot for just labor (NUTS). But hey, they're busy, so I won't get on them too much. Funny thing is they are sometimes way busier than I am. Once you start talking stain grade for Cabinets in the Raw, then price goes up depending on the type of wood used. Here in Texas, Southern oak or Maple is used, so the price will go up to $235.00 a liner foot. I saw another post saying $100.00 a liner foot; WOW!!! one sheet of birch right now is $47.00 a sheet of AC is $35.00 and full extension drawer guides sell for $12.00 each, not to mention miscellaneous (nails, glue, screws, gas, etc.) not sure of any profit made for that custom cabinet man. Any way, hope this helps.