NY most affordable among world's wealthiest cities

But that cannot be, because rent regulations in NY artificially inflate the sale price of apartments. Right-wing dogma proves that to be an unwavering given.

[Pay no attention to the London and Moscow and Hong Kong behind that curtain.]

P.S. -- firecracker, firecracker, sis boom bah

PPS: shake pom-poms----do handspring----yell "buy now" thru megaphone

firecracker, firecracker, sis boom bah

cracks me up everytime

Should have known steveF the OP.

If F-Steve had been the captain of the Titanic, he would wired the owners upon striking the iceberg: "Great news, cost of maintaining vessel will be reduced!"

It just notes prices- does the study include the overall cost of ownership- I would bet the taxes/maint on a NYC apt are way higher than in the other 3 places...

give me Paris over Manhattan any day.............

the study was conducted by stribling.

from my LIMITED understanding of moscow re, there are really 2 price levels, one for russians and one for foreigners or russians who WANT to show the world how much they can overpay. from my LIMITED understanding of london re, the obsene prices are also largely driven by shady foreigners taking advantage of their tax system and the local swells without astronomical unlimited budgets cashed in and hightailed it out of town. think very hard, steve, is that really what you want for new york?

and of course, i would over pay for paris and some parts of london any day. my beloved hometown? not so much. guess that's just my own demented sense of entitlement.

alan, thx bro. Got a little sidetracked and forgot about this thread from earlier. Thanks for bringing it back to the front.

Ya looks like Manhattan is the cheapest housing out of the biggies. This spring is going to be full of International buyers.

ya baby!!!! :)

firecracker, firecracker, sis boom bah

cracks me up everytime

marco, if you're not being sarcastic then you need to get out more. really man, close the laptop and head out the front door.

see, this is why people don't like brokers. because you are not a real person, but a subhuman snake. best of luck in your pathetic endeavours.

I just think its funny. nothing wrong with that

"This spring is going to be full of International buyers."

...buying at reduced prices! Yay!

the international crowd is busy buying soybeans.

In another study done by Demographia (www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf), where they survey 325 markets including 82 metro areas with a minimum of one million people, Hong Kong again is the least affordable city in the world with an affordable index of 11.4. The NY metro area is almost twice as affordable with an index of 6.1.

yes, but what is the income disparity between the top and bottom earners in hong kong? we're doing our best to catch up in terms of income disparity, but we've only been at this for a decade or so. give us some time.

Also, lots of the more expensive properties in HK were bought up by the new millionaires from mainland China. similar to Europeans who bought NYC properties a few years ago.

"yes, but what is the income disparity between the top and bottom earners in hong kong? we're doing our best to catch up in terms of income disparity, but we've only been at this for a decade or so. give us some time."

exactly, ar. that's what people like steve are really cheering, and they need to be called out on it.

"If F-Steve had been the captain of the Titanic, he would wired the owners upon striking the iceberg: "Great news, cost of maintaining vessel will be reduced!" "

ha, well done ME

BTW, did they really try and compare Hong Kong with all of NYC? Not Manhattan?

These studies are always of New York City, NOT Manhattan.

Hong Kong is about the same size as NYC. Overall, it is more expensive than NYC. The more expensive areas in HK are also more expensive than most places in Manhattan. However, people in HK pay much less income tax (15% marginal)and cheaper mortgage rate on variable rate mortgages.

vic, you're clearly not a statistician. maybe you and alpie can meet after work for a drink and discuss your various theories on statistics and reasoning.

ya baby....

Actually Honk Kong is very comparable to NY, particularly geographically. It's just that their Long Island City/Astoria/Williamsburg area is more mature (Hong Kong's Kowloon Bay)
Flip side is oceanfront property is less mature as asians are less beachfront obsessed.

Think of Hong Kong Island as Manhattan, all of Kowloon as Brooklyn and Queens.
http://www.cyborlink.com/besite/images/hong_kong_map.gif

What was that yesterday? 18 bids in one day? Noah @ UD says the market is moving, evidence on these boards, listings @ buildings that Wbottom desperately wants to buy in are going into contract left and right, buildings where I own have no inventory and what's left is selling as I type this......ya everyone thinks the market is going down.

aboutready, no one is disputing that Manhattan is very expensive, probably too expensive. At the same time, demonizing people who brought up the fact that there are other more expensive places is wrong too. By any measure, Hong Kong is more expensive the Manhattan. Even HK's sub urban area is more expensive than Manhattan.

you're not getting my point. i haven't been to hong kong in awhile, but i clearly recall people living in boats in the harbor. that may no longer be true, but income disparity is ginormous.

their shacks are probably cheaper than our shacks, but that isn't saying much. demonizing? get over yourself.

The part you are missing, vic, is there is no equlivalent of Long Island, New Jersey, Westchester in your equation either. Those places compete with Manhattan for banker dollars much more so than, well, China does.

It is simply not a great example.

Then, on top of that, you are also talking about a country that a lot more city choices. We're the greatest, of course, but foreign money also goes to Florida. Or LA. Or San Fran. I mean, hell, Miami is filled with eurotrash "investors".

You also have a mind set that goes back generations in Hong Kong that wealth is achieved by amassing real estate and that real estate is the only investment vehicle that will stand the test of time. It is hard for the market to correct itself there as with every dip, investors swoop in.
HOng Kong is as diversified as NYC with the prime investments on the island side and the more reasonable land on the Kowloon side up to the new territories. My guess on incomes would be personally anecdotal but I don't think you would see much difference between NYC and HK.

So the great statistian doesn't have the latest data to say otherwise. Forget about income disparity, the absolute "COST" of apartments are higher in Hong Kong. I am not even talking about a few signature residential buildings there. Truthskr10 was only half right, The Hong Kong island is definitely more expensive than Manhattan. Most area in the Kowloon pennisula southern tip are more expensive than Manhattan. May be someone really have to get a drink after work to straight out his theories on statistics and reasonings.

Aboutready...the boat people were moved into public housing in the later part of the 90s.

And the high real estate prices in HK is not just unhealthy but out right sick.

thanks, rosina, for the update. i'm sure it's lovely (although undeniably better than living in the harbor).

yes, vic, it is sick. that's my point. and that's what many here look forward to, a complete lack of affordability, and we're working toward that. i guess you didn't get my point.

btw, i'm a her.

All those happy Hong Kong boat people were moved to new high rise developments in the New Territory which is north and reachable by a light rail system and bus. Most of these developments are 1 hour+ from town. I took a bus to the north to see them. It's so funky. You ride for over a hour and you arrive in the middle of nowhere and there are 12-16 high rises packed together around a rail station with a mini mall. They have the feeling of a low income housing project on steroids. There is no charm.

Land ownership is very different in HK. The gov't owns most of the land - it is my understanding that there is very little freehold ownership and has very long leases (think 999 years). Some argue that this keeps property prices artificially high in HK.

As for London, by area, there are more areas that are considered "prime" or prime-ish compared to NYC, so depending on what you're talking about, I find prime-ish London RE to be cheaper than prime-ish Manhattan RE. However, uber-prime London can be more expensive then uber-prime Manhattan (Fifth Avenue v. Belgravia/Mayfair/Knightsbridge). But ownership of uber-prime London is considerably less restrictive than uber-prime Manhattan (no restrictive co-ops). So one can argue whether co-op structure decreases prices of uber-prime Manhattan artificially. If you want to talk gross comparisons - most of prime-ish London is like brownstone Brooklyn, both in price & feel.

"Truthskr10 was only half right, The Hong Kong island is definitely more expensive than Manhattan. Most area in the Kowloon pennisula southern tip are more expensive than Manhattan."

I was trying to present more of a geographical picture.
Though Hong Kong Island like Manhattan has it's crap areas and throught the stratosphere areas.(Love that expat pub on the corner in Wan Chi district)
And yes dare I say, 15/20 years from now, LIC/Astoria/Williamsburg will have sections more expensive than areas in Manhattan. As I said, NY's Kowloon Bay is still immature.

to SWE's "there is no equlivalent of Long Island, New Jersey, Westchester in your equation either," yes this is partially true, but CHina now offers some very affluent coastal neighborhoods close to Hong Kong (though of course, Shenzhen isn't quite Connecticut).

It's really near impossible to compare one large international city to another. However with all my travels, I don't think you can find a closer match in such attempts as NY and Hong Kong.

We're all boat people.

http://www.mp3rocket.com/mp3/-1_00/Art-Ugly-People-With-Fancy-Hairdos-We-Are-All-Boat-People.htm

Aboutready,

Discussing facts and implications are different. I agree with you on the issue of implications. I respectfully disagree with you on facts, and got offended when I was told to take a drink and straight out my theories and reasonings when you were using 15 years old observations of a foreign city. Peace now.

oh vic, go have a drink anyway. have a great weekend.

btw, vic, i don't think it would be a reach to say that affordability wasn't great 20 years ago in HK, and it's gotten worse. that's what i was basing my comments on, not what i saw 20 years ago.

tokyo, where i lived, that might be a different story.

to the megaphone...ya baby!

Keep in mind half those boat people are feeding the fish and floating market.
Pretend fish could still live in the east river, south street seaport's fish market was still there, 5 times as big and the fisherman and sellers were camped out in the lower east side. :)

Falco
Next time check out the zoo, bengal tiger very cool. ALso the big buddah island, name escapes me.

It's the first song. Go ahead, click to play. Go ahead. Ugly People With Fancy Hairdos.

Aboutready, I might have over reacted too. My apology.

truthskr10, that biddah island sounds like Landtau or something

Don't forget the US dollar has lost 40% of it's value to most of the world.
These things fluctuate back and forth.
I seem to recall the sky was falling when Japan was going to own America in the 80s.
$400 per sq ft in Tokyo and $100 mellons?

nyc10023, good points on London.

I'll also add its another place where the city has little competition within the country. Leeds and Birmingham 'aint Miami.

But Brighton is. Except that Brighton is fun.

Vic, Landtau sounds right.

I will say, there was no experience like landing at Hong Kong's old airport on Hong Kong Island for the first time.
Pretend for a moment JFK airport is in manhattan. The main runway strip is, I don't know, broadway between canal and Houston sts. And your landing, getting closer to the ground and see buildings on either side of the plane taller than you are wondering if your crashing.

You should try landing at Maho Beach:

http://photos.igougo.com/images/p114694-St._Maarten-Maho_Beach.jpg

And no, it was not photoshopped.

truth, you should try landing on Kodiak Island.

i was in tokyo in the '80s. living in a huge loft in akasaka. but not eating any honeydew. those were hostess gifts.

vic, very good of you to apologize, but not necessary. i was on the snarky side.

Will you people PLEASE stop one-upping each other with apologies and confessions?!!! Get back in the ring and throw sneaky kidney punches with some lead embedded in your gloves. What is society coming to?

Socio
I'll take your word for it but I do find it confusing.
A little late to start lowering landing gear and if it's taking off, looks like nothing but water for takeoff....no?

AR
Ah, pre NY sushi obsession days.
Got a Poliaroid of Kodiak? :)

> But Brighton is. Except that Brighton is fun.

For a good 2-3 weeks! ;-)

Is King's Lynn LA?

I think the old HK airport was in Kowloon, not quite the Hong Kong island. The experience of landing on that airport was truely unforgettable. I remember seeing people having their dinner inside their apartments. It was that close.

Sorry , you are right, it was in kowloon.

Found this beauty
http://howzit-hongkong.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/kaitak4.jpg

When I first came to the USA, I departed from the old HK airport - Kai Tak. If Maho Beach airport seems "stunning", take a look at:

http://www.mcnees.org/travelsite/trav_kaitak.htm

I once heard that Kai Tak airport was the final testing ground for pilots - They passed the test and became pilots only after landing safely in Kai Tak.

Totally agree that "you cannot find a closer match in such attempts as NY and Hong Kong." Even counting in the monthlies and taxes, it is still cheaper to buy in Manhattan for similar quality apartments. By rough measures, the ratio is very close to 1.9x (after taking mortgage interest tax deductibility into account) as indicated in the survey results. And it's not just reports from Savills and Demographia, another website indicates similar results as well.

Of course, you can argue that HK people pay only 15% income taxes, but also remember they generally earn less than their counterparts in the USA. Keep in mind that HKD is pegged to USD, so a large part of the price increase is due to the Chinese mainlanders, who are pushing the prices up and up, not just in HK, but also in Vancouver. I do not see a swamp of Chinese mainlanders buying up residential RE in Manhattan because of the omnipresent coop process.

P.S. A big part of Kowloon (esp West Kowloon) is very very expensive now. Also, beach/ocean front properties in the Repulse Bay or Stanley or the new Cyberport areas are expensive as hell.

We must remember that art is art.
Well, on the other hand water is water isn't it?
And east is east and west is west.
And if you take cranberries and stew them like applesause
they taste much more like prunes than rubarb does.
Now uh...now you tell me what you know.

stuff!!

Brighton was fun for 2 DAYS, Alan. Max. And not even all that. I walked the entire Lanes area in an afternoon, went on the grubby promenade, blabla. Yes, and saw the Pavilion. Some horrid bits of 60s architecture too close to the sea.

If you liked the architecture in Brighton, Bath & bits of Bristol are even more stunning.

Great pictures, truthskr10 and mymycse. And I'd thought San Diego was fun.

When I was a kid our little local airport had scheduled flights for awhile, until a couple of 707s crashed upon landing. Mountains on all sides, fog, and Agony Scarelines overestimating its pilots.

I know this thread is not about airports but just can't help it...

10 most extreme airports ranked by History Channel in 2010:
http://www.examiner.com/airlines-airport-in-national/top-ten-most-extreme-airports

Maho Beach ranked no. 4, Kai Tak no. 6.

Honestly, I never felt unsafe when landing or taking off from Kai Tak (and the night scene was spectacular when landing). At the same time, growing up in a 600 sq ft. 3-bedroom apartment with 4 family members didn't sound 'tight' to me until I found out 600 sq ft. was considered only as a 1-bedroom here in Manhattan. Therefore it was amazing to me at first when New Yorkers thought 9 foot x 12 foot was only a small bedroom (or sometimes they called it a den, since it's not really a bedroom because of the dimension).

on Hong Kong and NY and income disparity. I saw a brief piece on a cleaning lady in HK who along with her son lived in a 7x7- space- the place she lived had many people living in those same conditions...they all shared a bathroom and a kitchen. And its not like this woman was lazy either- she worked long hours at her cleaning job.

What is the Wayne, NJ of Hong Kong?

The article misses a very important part of home affordability; the carrying charges. Property taxes in London are much, much lower so you can put more of your income into the mortgage (lever up a bit more). I don't know about HK but would assume property taxees (like all their other taxes) are low there. Income taxes are roughly similar between London and NYC (once you throw in state and city taxes), but London is full of foreigners who don't pay any taxes

Regarding the ntnl examiner airport list; I landed at Gib airport once. Very odd landing and taking off on a runway that crosses the main road in the colony. A friend of mine is off on holiday to a Caribbean island that apparently has the shortest commercial runway in the world. Somewhere in the Dutch Antilles, I think.

"London is full of foreigners who don't pay any taxes"

exactly. no self respecting new yorker should want this model for new york. everything this city is, what it means to people all over the world is a result of its denizens' genuine vested interest in its prosperity. what makes new york new york is that everyone who wants to can come here and contribute to the fabric, add their voice, please fill in whatever corny metaphore floats your fancy. anyone can become a new yorker, they just have to want to. that's worth preserving, and will be much easier destroyed than created. does the income from steve's studio rentals really justify his excitement at the slow death of everything that makes new york?

ok, somewhat melodramatic. but not untrue!

LucilleWinsTheTruthFruitLoopAward

hello love of my life, apple of my eye, cherry on my ice cream. how is your day going? are you thinking of me? i know what i'm thinking about. you, me, and a bowl of fruit loops. thatswhatimtalkinabout.

you are such a tease. it's working!

>PPS: shake pom-poms----do handspring----yell "buy now" thru megaphone

WTushy, is this your cheerleader fantasy come true? SteveF in tights?

NWT
Well as much as I do it I hate flying, and it actually gets worse as I get older not easier.
Have not been to any of the other airports on the list Sara_se provided, but thinking of windy airports affected by mountains, my second place airport on my personal experience list goes to Malpensa airport.
The Alps provide quite the rollercoaster ride. But I'll always put up with that landing to know meals in Milan and Firenze follow.