went to contract on 6E in this building - at 1.1 million 12/23/10. LOVE the building, loved the apt. ..... was rejected by the board and probably rightfully so...... right before signing was handed a 'memo to shareholders' re maintenance ^ for this apt. it was an ^ of 9.32%. I wanted to pay cash...........the brokers wanted me to get a mortgage so i tried - was turned down because of the... [more]
went to contract on 6E in this building - at 1.1 million 12/23/10. LOVE the building, loved the apt. ..... was rejected by the board and probably rightfully so...... right before signing was handed a 'memo to shareholders' re maintenance ^ for this apt. it was an ^ of 9.32%. I wanted to pay cash...........the brokers wanted me to get a mortgage so i tried - was turned down because of the building's finances and the balloon mortgage due in 2014. (they run a very tight, very lean ship) by 3 banks - in the tri-state area. Such vetting of the building made me uncomfortable, however, I know RSD like the back of my hand since I lived there most of my adult life. The Board was rigorously honest, I never had to ask a question, really, as they answered all but one by telling me what shape they were in - and what their expectations for future years are, i.e., substantial maintenance ^ right on down the line.......concommittant with buildings previous history of just about yearly ^ in maintenance/apt. simply due to rising costs ..... and again, the building being run 'lean and clean'
The building is great, the people who live there - in particular the board, are stellar. Same for staff. 6-E, however, is problematic. Apts always show best with some furniture....in this case, the furnishings hid about 10k worth of work (minimum) ,,,,, and we only inspected half the apartment prior to board interview and subsequent rejection. The kitchen cabinets are in horrible condition, there is no microwave, the floor has holes in it, the washboards are separating from the cabinet footings and the counter is some kind of laminate - also separating from it's base. The laundry is supposed to have a lead pan underneath it which can be easily emptied in case of leakage (which is why one has to get a step stool to do laundry) - it was not noted during our inspection. The sink has no garbage disposal, spray hose, etc.....in short an 'oldie' and 'mouldy' - the silicone sealing around the sink is tacky to the touch and it's totally grody behind the sink. some of the lights don't work and there are bare bulbs in the laundry and small bath. The small bath has to have it's tub reglazed or replaced. It is awful. Tile grout is missing. The shades left in LR are filthy and full of holes (old hunter douglas silhouettes). One of the pulls broke off in my hand as i tried to raise it.
The living room windows are impossible to open/close - we broke two handles/fasteners just trying to open/close them. The banquettes - in kitchen and in living room are a joke. some old fabric folded around the original cushions which falls apart in one's hands. But......that's nothing compared to the sheaves of paint peeling off the walls behind the windows.
The apartment hasn't been painted in 7 years. ..... and while the previous owner directed how and what paint to use she was had. (I used to be a contractor). Sheaves of paint do not come off of skim coated walls, doors or primed properly woodwork (second bedroom).
Further, the windows sealing/caulking is very badly cracked - shoddy job in the living room - did not get as far as the bedrooms or master bath.
There are bare bulbs in the laundry and the small bathroom (against the law).
There are no keys to any of the rooms (I asked) tho former owner had these fixtures restored to their original beauty. I've never had a bath or bedroom without locking doors but was given a blank look when I inquired as to when the keys would be produced.
The former owner indicates there is a door to the kitchen to be installed - there is no door and it does need one. The dishwasher is great as is the washer/dryer. The stove - suffice to say it has four burners and needs to be cleaned. There is one wall - adjacent to the kitchen which has huge crosshatching cracs ..... the kind that seem to be working their way somewhere. May be as simple as a shoddy skim coat job - if not, good luck
While the apartment's layout and basic rooms are fine; indeed lovely; NOTHING has been upgraded .......... it is not 'cable-ready' 'electronically ready' etc. basic old lines that one adds ugly power strips to; if the apartment can take them. As I am a tekkie - love my music, love my hidden screens, monitors, speakers, etc.......this apartment requires an update by someone really good - and that means expensive unless you have my cousin! There are exactly 4 outlets in theliving room. The woodwork has not been cut out (as I always see and always had in quality apartments) to accommodate upgrading and hiding those disgusting wires and plugs without using 'wire-mold'
I'm surprised the price was raised - must have a buyer in the wings - perhaps the one who bid more than me but seller wanted to 'honor my contract' Surprised because 'what lies beneath' a furnished apartment - once unconvered, brings out ALL THE QUESITONS/POSSIBILITIES ETC.
The brokers were lovely and accommodating.........same for the Board - with a billet doux for this board: They sure know their building and who will/won't fit in there. Not once during my interevew did I feel 'hammered' 'defensive' or tense. I'd done my homework and they had done theirs. As I am a single woman 'of a certain age' with plenty of $$$$ right now, and what I thought were serious $$$$ for the future, I believe the future , for them - with me in the building - simply was not going to be enough - for me or them 5 years down the road....and my finances MAY change on a dime given that I am a divorced woman with a son - and I am the custodial parent.
Shelle Sklarsh of Halstead is the broker who 'put my package together' working w/James Perez on the buyer's side. Were it not for Shelle I am sure I would have just left the country screaming I'M GONNA DIE I"M GONNA DIE IF I DON"T GET OUT OF HERE. Instead, I got the best look at my financials (and the most current one) in 5 years. In order. It was the 'board package bible' and oh boy is it ever now my 'Bible"
So, while 370 RSD was not in the cards for me, I hope this conversation is helpful to anyone who comes after me. Anything that reduces tension, increases transparency and keeps us all on our honest moral toes is worth passing on, yes?
Onward! It's a gorgeous space and can be easily customized to fit any number of famllies' or singles' needs. Brilliant. All the best to whomever winds up there!
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Response by bramstar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
Princess--I'm sorry to hear you've had a board turn-down but it sounds like ultimately you feel this was not the right fit for you.
I'm familiar with 370 RSD though not with this particular unit. I don't quite understand the relevance of some of your points. Cosmetic issues you mention (the crummy pull-cords, older paint job, bare bulbs and 'old fabric') are really not relevant in a purchase. Remember, these are things a new owner will want to update to his or her own tastes.
I'm surprised to hear you only inspected a small portion of the apartment before bidding/going into contract. NY is a caveat emptor state-- apartments are sold 'as-is'. Most older apartments will need work. $10K is not a lot to spend, in fact, it's on the very low end of the reno spectrum. If you are purchasing a prewar apartment you WILL need to renovate unless it's a unit that's been gutted and redone by the sponsor or developer. And sponsor renos suck, so you'll likely still need to do a fair amount of work.
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Response by bramstar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
Oh, and as to the increase in price--I doubt there is 'someone else in the wings' as the realtor would have simply offered the unit to that buyer once your deal fell through. They're hitting the ground running with an open house so it sounds like they're starting from scratch. The price increase could be due to perceived strengthening of market conditions, which do seem to have been improving of late.
Any buyer with an iota of savvy will be able to see that only three months ago the ask was lower and they'll hone in on that when making offers. It's anyone's guess how things will turn out.
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Response by bramstar
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
Princess--ok, I'm rereading your post and am a bit confused about something--you say the brokers 'wanted' you to take out a mortgage rather than paying cash. Is this because of a concern that you'd have insufficient liquid assets after the purchase? Did the brokers advise you with regards to the board's intolerance of ARMs? If not, that's a bit remiss on the brokers' part. If the building does not allow adjustable mortgages then you should have applied for a 30-yr fixed. The brokers should have offered guidance on this.
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Response by Arch784
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Mar 2011
Hi Princess, first, I'd like to support bramstar's comments. Apartments are always prices as-is in NYC. All work needed is susually taken into account. If not, I would hope you did a good job negotiating. What interests me is that you would have seen the paint, the kitchen cabinets, the stove and the "bare bulb" on your first visit to the apartment. And when is a microwave included in purchases? It's not a game show. If these things put you off so much, why did you place a bid? I'm surprised you didn't have a full inspection done and asked about cable, electric, etc. BEFORE you signed a contract for over 1 million dollars!!! It sounds like you didn't do your homework.
I also know the building well and you are incorrect on a few points. First, the January 2011 maintenance increase was 6.9% and was almost entirely due to fuel and real estate taxes. Excluding these items, the maintenance increased less than 1%. Second, you would not have been turned down for a mortgage based on the building’s finances. The building sells apartments pretty consistently and many banks lend there. It sounds like the issue was on your side of the finances. Lastly, I visited the open house twice and James Perez represented the seller. So, I think you mean that Shelle Sklarsh was your broker on the buyer side.
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Response by Liza123
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Mar 2011
Princess, it sounds like this might have been your first venture into NYC real estate...or the first in a few years? I'm very sorry this apartment didn't work out for you, but it sounds as though you've learned some good lessons for next time.
Firstly, I couldn't agree more with Arch and Bramstar - the issues you describe (older kitchen cabinets and sink, torn shades, some cracking paint) are extremely minor. Most apartments in this neighborhood will require far more than $10K worth of refurbishment. You were willing to spend $1.1M on an apartment you yourself describe as wonderful, but not not willing to buy new shades?
More importantly, you say that you didn't look carefully at the apartment before signing a contract. Princess, please be careful! You were lucky this time - the issues you missed were trivial - but you could have gotten yourself into a situation costing literally hundreds of thousands of dollars! Whether or not the apartment had furniture, you should have been able to see the cabinets, sink, light bulbs, and shades easily...it sounds as though you didn't do any sort of inspection at all, and are now trying to blame the seller. But this is the buyer's responsibility, not the seller's And you are an ex-contractor! Don't let your heart rule your head when it comes to real estate - do your due diligence.
Best of luck.
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Response by romary
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 443
Member since: Aug 2008
what's the point OP, tedious, bordering on banal post. It's great/they are great/board is great/it's crap/needs work/where are the keys wahhh. You sound like a jilted teenager writing on FatchBook about her boyfriend.
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Response by Morningside10025
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Mar 2011
Hi Princess,
I agree with the comments above - it sounds as though this experience will be helpful as you move on to the next property. I do want to add, however, that you seem to be pretty hard on the seller here. Why put sarcastic "quotes" around your comment that she wanted to honor your contract? Sounds like a pretty upstanding move in this market, particularly since you have now been rejected by the board, leading to a loss of both money and time for the seller.
You also imply an attempt to hide flaws in the apartment - which makes little sense, since you also say you didn't inspect it. Plus, you have described the place as "gorgeous" and "lovely" with a nice layout in a good building. And it sounds as though both the seller and the Board were scrupulously honest about the building's finances.
So...take a deep breath, move on, and I'm sure you'll find a great place. But you might have a more serene time doing so if you didn't blame other people for your mistakes, or attack their integrity without cause.
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Response by Liza123
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Mar 2011
I agree with Morningside here - it IS a bit nasty of you to criticize the apartment or make implications about the seller/building just because you were rejected by the Board. If your goal is transparency and keeping on one's "honest moral toes," you might look a bit closer to home.
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Response by princesscbbop
over 14 years ago
Posts: 20
Member since: Jul 2010
Whoa! I've been completely misunderstood! and I certainly never meant to be sarcastic. This was the 3rd deal fallen through for me - from Harlem to Brooklyn and back to my old home, RSD - in the past 1-1/2 years.
.....tis true - I was an idiot to sign a contract so quickly.....and it WAS the seller's broker (I have the e-mail) who sent an e-mail to my broker stating "....and WHEN is {she} going to sign contract? There is another offer in the wings but seller will honor accepted offer..." - p.s. the poor seller may have known nothing of this.
and I saw the apartment furnished - twice - once at an open house - and once afterwards. The THIRD time I met the seller - she was on her way out the door - the moving trucks had come and gone - and she, lovely woman, was on her way to one of the Carolinas! There was absolutely NO attempt to hide flaws on her part - who knew that once the banquettes were moved away from the wall there were swaths of paint peeling off the walls, or that underneath the rugs floors were damaged, and behind hung pictures or full dressers lay walls that had not been skim-coated (as was stated in her renovation/alteration document) and that parts of the kitchen floor were missing (there was a table, banquettes and chairs when I saw it).
...and I have enough $$$ to cover that - it was the sickening feeling in my gut that told me I'd been hustled. YUP - I made a humongous mistake (with the exception of dealing with Shelle Sklarsh) re this apt.
...and my calculations are 100% right - and the Board, during my interview, flat out advised me that increases were expected every year r from here on out. I HAD projections for 10 years down the line under my belt....
...and yes, the SELLER'S BROKER - not mine - wanted MY package to be 'beefed' up - I won't print my response to that rot. At 65 y.o. having previously owned right here on 86th Street, RSD, in Singapore, in CT etc. over the past 25 years I don't and will not lie - I have kids to answer to in terms of setting an example. (whether they know it or not is so beyond the point) Yeah, I have a moral thread and obligation - that's what my life is about. Is that a problem?
...any building that doesn't have good finances - in this economy and housing market (ny is not exempt - except for the rich of course) should be suspect - the banks were - my atty ADVISED ME of same
...where are the keys wahhhh? Facebook? In the next life .... and go get a life - or read something else prior to responding to serious issues faced by all. perhaps you're a native New Yorker with that crusty, contemptuous xenophobic chip on your shoulder
romary - well, have at it.
...
My financials are beyond the pale - as is my income stream - w/exceptions due to 'acts of God' for crying out loud.
...and it was the SELLER'S BROKER who insisted I get a mortgage - and since (caveat emptor) I'd signed the contract I said 'okay' and proceeded to apply.
....guess what - not one fannie/freddie farts would give me a mortgage because I am divorced (this is not a joke) and the savings and loan associations, banks, etc. OUTSIDE OF NYC initially gave me a committment and then RENAGED due to the balloon mortgage on the building and it's lack of reserves.
....so yup, it's NYC - and I am a dyed in the wool New Yorker (now part-timer) - but not given to that ridiculously stupid 'caveat emptor' rot as if I, the buyer with the bucks, have no rights. This stuff does not fly elsewhere, clearly.
The board was right to reject me - the minute the meeting was over, as I was walking to the subway, my broker called, my lawyer called, etc..... "how was it?"
gimme a break - it's not a life or death situation. oh, and the seller's BROKER, attempted to strong-arm my broker (Shelle Sklarsh was my 'packager' at Halstead, NOT my broker) and me - and my atty for crissake even BEFORE THE BOARD MEETING. threatening a law suit against me if I "blew it" Well, I ask you - how the hell would anyone know? It's all 'at the discretion of the Board' no?
...and this Board, 99% of whom were women (Perez stated "the board is all men and they don't like divorced women" ) were not the 'coven' everyone is supposed to be so 'professionally polite' to; rather, they were, in fact, scrupulously honest, knew their building like they knew their own souls and asked me some of the most difficult financial questions and/or scenarios I've ever had to work with.
They remain, clearly, blameless. I also believe the seller is without blame. And so what if I made a mistake .... who hasn't? My point was not to blame or excuse myself. Clearly, I need a course in expository writing.
I did take a deep breath - thanks Morningside - and know that I was absolutely not right for that building .... AND LEST WE ALL FORGET IT WAS NOT RIGHT FOR ME.
Also know I was totally prepared to lose my deposit - indeed, I was sure I would - I was delighted to receive a check in the mail, plus interest, less than one week later. Then another check, for $500, from Long Island Savings and Loan - the one attached to my 'packages' commitment letter - the only lender who would give me a mortgage (at a very low rate, but high APR making my monthly nut $400 more than a fannie/freddie fart would have been.
Clearly, my intent in writing my first discussion so many months ago was poorly understood - and perhaps ill-conceived. I thought I was sharing MY MISTAKES which MIGHT have helped another.
I do see, now, that I was somewhat dishonest in that I did not want to be specific about my experience with the seller's broker, James Perez .... a man whom I was advised was 'very very smart' which turned out to be b.s. He is very very sly and cunning. There's a difference.
In any event, it is almost 5 months later - 370 RSD, 6-E is still on the market - I was surprised to even find myself coming back here - startled to see responses!
Thanks for all your comments - be well. Onward!
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Response by West81st
over 14 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Just for the record, a new contract on #6E appears to have been signed about two weeks ago.
Princesscbbop: The possibility that you may have suffered discrimination on the basis of marital status is troubling. Keep in mind that many divorces leave a cloud over a person's finances: shared obligations; complex assets pending disposition; dependence on unreliable income from a hostile party. Even if none of those issues apply to your situation, that might have been the type of problem to which JP was alluding when he said the Board "doesn't like divorced women".
Boards loathe uncertainty. Divorces can undermine financial planning quite dramatically - especially, as many studies have documented, for women. Those statistics don't justify discrimination, but they might help to explain a pattern of disproportionate rejections - assuming JP is right, and such a pattern even exists.
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Response by front_porch
over 14 years ago
Posts: 5320
Member since: Mar 2008
If a Brown Harris Stevens selling broker wants the package to be "beefed up" and the buyer thinks that's "rot", and then there's a turndown, how is that discrimination?
Sounds like OP is a relatively high-asset, low-income (or risk-attached income) buyer, who should be looking at condominiums.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
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Response by sjtmd
over 14 years ago
Posts: 670
Member since: May 2009
I think that all posts, initial or otherwise, should be a million words or less.
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Response by KeithB
over 14 years ago
Posts: 976
Member since: Aug 2009
The potential discrimination lies in the comment "The board doesn't like divorced woman". Beef up the board package is just "lie about your finances".
Keith Burkhardt (broker)
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Response by MtWalker
over 14 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Jun 2010
I ran across this while doing my research on another unit in the building. I'm amazed that princesscbbop has posted twice on this. Reading your comments sounds like a terrible combination of sour grapes, spite and cowardice.
A few points for you, princesscbbop:
First, a selling broker's interest lies in you passing the board. They don't get the deal unless you pass and take possession. If he thought the board wouldn't like you for whatever reason, he likely would have counseled his client to reject your bid. Especially seeing as he had other offers.
Second, you initially claimed "The brokers were lovely and accommodating........." Now, for some reason you come back on and call out someone by name, though they were "lovely" before. This is the ultimate act of cowardice. I'm sure the broker doesn't even know he's being mentioned on here so he can defend himself. On the main page he is listed as the top seller in the building. I'm sure he knows the composition of the board, and it wouldn't make sense for him to mislead you.
Third, you stated that "My financials are beyond the pale - as is my income stream - w/exceptions due to 'acts of God' for crying out loud," BUT, in your original comment you stated that "As I am a single woman 'of a certain age' with plenty of $$$$ right now, and what I thought were serious $$$$ for the future, I believe the future , for them - with me in the building - simply was not going to be enough - for me or them 5 years down the road....and my finances MAY change on a dime given that I am a divorced woman with a son - and I am the custodial parent."
How can you completely disregard everything you wrote weeks ago to come up with a new, seemingly fictitious story. Why would you make these claims to try to damage someone's reputation? Why would you do this to the poor seller who you claim is so nice? And what was your broker doing this whole time? Why were you working so closely with the listing broker? There's something fishy about your story.
Clearly you are not board approvable, as you have been turned down three time. It is probably best you are now only a part-time New Yorker, as you state, because it seems you don't have what it takes to live here.
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Response by Bill7284
over 14 years ago
Posts: 631
Member since: Feb 2009
And the winner is.....MtWalker! You said it all and not to confuse another thread: What I miss about Old NYC are people like you.
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Response by sjtmd
over 14 years ago
Posts: 670
Member since: May 2009
"Also know I was totally prepared to lose my deposit - indeed, I was sure I would - I was delighted to receive a check in the mail, plus interest" - wow, at 0.3% - what did you do with your windfall?
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Response by princesscbbop
over 14 years ago
Posts: 20
Member since: Jul 2010
Hey Mt. Walker - don't know who you are quoting - but it's not me. and to you too, Bill7284.... don't know where you got the notion that I wrote my first commentary on my experience "weeks ago"
......more like 3 months ago ........ and where the hell did anyone get the idea I was turned down 3 times? Does anyone READ these comments or do y'all just write whatever the hell suits your fancy.
research my ass.
'windfall'? and what windfall is it that is spoken of? it WAS MY $110,000 that I put down. Since when is two hundred bucks tied up for three months a windfall?
and 'what was my broker doing this whole time?' she was a newbie - doing nothing. I worked with my 'packager' lest y'all can't read - at the same firm of course - very awkward situation at first. ....
Clearly, I AM board approvable given that I am now in a coop right down the street - on RSD - I was turned down by one board for a total of ONE time.
"discrimination" I don't see where I ever mentioned any kind of discrimination. I quoted the poor seller's broker. who is clever, cunning and sly - not smart.
"What I miss about Old NYC are people like you"? I am "old NYC" and there are, unfortunately, more than a zillion of us missing. So true!
I think all posts should be first - literate - and last- literate.
Praise all the deities that I am fortunate enough not to have to live here full-time! and praise them again I've been able to live here for over 40 years in most commodious and harmonious circumstances ..... having worked hard and well all my very rich, very colorful, and extraordinarily rewarding life.
This is so fun!
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Response by falcogold1
over 14 years ago
Posts: 4159
Member since: Sep 2008
coops are just a wacky concept.
doesen't take too many locos to screw the pooch.
I wonder what it might take to convert more coops into condos?
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Response by falcogold1
over 14 years ago
Posts: 4159
Member since: Sep 2008
princess....
time to isolate your searches to condos.
interviews are not everyone's strong suit.
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Response by KeithB
over 14 years ago
Posts: 976
Member since: Aug 2009
Just for the record, my comments above were simply to point out what was the implied "lie" and possible "discrimination" in regards to what another poster stated. My comments were meant to be a bit cheeky, not to assume that the op was indeed told to lie or in fact was discriminated against.
I bring this up because as many know me, I do strive to keep the emotions out of my posts and stick to facts. The above matter is of a very serious nature and I should not have taken it light heartedly.
Keith Burkhardt (broker)
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Response by princesscbbop
over 14 years ago
Posts: 20
Member since: Jul 2010
falcogold 1....
again, am firmly and happily ensconsed in an RSD coop. Would MUCH rather have selected a condo. However, I am what might be considered and 'anomolous' buyer in a very 'small court market' and new/old condos (that is, those that have gone through their 1-2 year litigations and sorted out the settling of a new conversion or development) just don't have a load of inventory right now (i.e., condos 5-10 y.o)
Also true that interviews are not everyone's strong suit. I never felt badly about my interview ..... it was RIGOROUS.....as a woman being queried by other women who'd 'been there, done that' in their own building I was truly impressed.....and, again, want to state that they were 100% right to turn me down at 370 RSD.
Keith 8 ....
You are correct - I, too, have a tendency to be a bit 'cheeky' .... which perhaps gets in the way of my writing about what was - and continues to be - a matter of very serious nature.
When one reads "The Real Deal" for example, one may ascertain that CLOSE, CLOSE, CLOSE and $$$$$ are all that matters. Just as many $$$$ can be made (my personal opinion only) by everyone doing their job ...... which means agents/brokers/reps matching buyers/sellers/homes .... carefully and with right 'intention'
....to do otherwise perpetuates fraud on the part of sellers themselves - and their aligned agents/brokers/reps .... and rightly held paranoia and fear on the part of buyers.
Bramstar ..... perhaps you, too, are correct in assuming that $10k is chump change when viewing an apt. I did not know that. I expected an advert of 'triple mint' to mean that it was in move-in condition (for anyone).
thanks so much all of you!
charon
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Response by Squid
over 14 years ago
Posts: 1399
Member since: Sep 2008
>I think all posts should be first - literate - and last- literate.<
How can a post be "literate"? Please explain.
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Response by Liza123
over 14 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Mar 2011
Princess, the apartment listing (which is still on the BHS website) doesn't say anything about 'triple mint.' You keep implying there was some sort of deception or false advertising, which really seems quite unlikely.
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Response by princesscbbop
over 14 years ago
Posts: 20
Member since: Jul 2010
deceptive adverts or descriptions 'really seems quite unlikely?"
Dear Liza 123 the original advert SAID "triple mint" - clearly you were not on board and did not go to the first OH - which is where I received the broadside/flyer .... and after one other visit (apt. furnished still) signed a contract on.
as for deceptive adverts or descriptions "really seems quite unlikely?" - you either do not live in Manhattan - purchased something that was 100% from flyer to close from a seller who hired THE MOST REPUTABLE broker in town (if there is such a person).......
....and p.s. of course the listing is STILL on BHS - it is STILL for sale - AND it's still here on streeteasy - with the wrong info re maintenance. (I sent them a correction - right from my contract and memo to shareholders dated Jan 1, 2011).
Research, research, research ........ and proof, proof, proof before clocking off on serious misinformation.
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Response by lovetocook
over 14 years ago
Posts: 171
Member since: Sep 2010
Princess just curious you said they were right to turn you down so you must have an idea as to why and agree with their decision. People have been speculating but obvious you know why.
Glad to know that you found something you're happy with. Enjoy. I love living on the UWS near Riverside.
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Response by Squid
over 14 years ago
Posts: 1399
Member since: Sep 2008
Only a true idiot signs a contract based on a "flyer" and one OH visit. It is up to the buyer to satisfy him-/herself as to what shape the apartment is in and bid accordingly. A savvy buyer knows to read any "advert" with a grain of salt as listing descriptions can contain errors and omissions.
Let it go, OP. Move on. Stop badgering the listing agent with "corrections" based on outdated info from six months ago. No one is interested in your continued whining.
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Response by Liza123
over 14 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Mar 2011
FYI, the apartment closed yesterday; it sold for $1.125M.
Princess--I'm sorry to hear you've had a board turn-down but it sounds like ultimately you feel this was not the right fit for you.
I'm familiar with 370 RSD though not with this particular unit. I don't quite understand the relevance of some of your points. Cosmetic issues you mention (the crummy pull-cords, older paint job, bare bulbs and 'old fabric') are really not relevant in a purchase. Remember, these are things a new owner will want to update to his or her own tastes.
I'm surprised to hear you only inspected a small portion of the apartment before bidding/going into contract. NY is a caveat emptor state-- apartments are sold 'as-is'. Most older apartments will need work. $10K is not a lot to spend, in fact, it's on the very low end of the reno spectrum. If you are purchasing a prewar apartment you WILL need to renovate unless it's a unit that's been gutted and redone by the sponsor or developer. And sponsor renos suck, so you'll likely still need to do a fair amount of work.
Oh, and as to the increase in price--I doubt there is 'someone else in the wings' as the realtor would have simply offered the unit to that buyer once your deal fell through. They're hitting the ground running with an open house so it sounds like they're starting from scratch. The price increase could be due to perceived strengthening of market conditions, which do seem to have been improving of late.
Any buyer with an iota of savvy will be able to see that only three months ago the ask was lower and they'll hone in on that when making offers. It's anyone's guess how things will turn out.
Princess--ok, I'm rereading your post and am a bit confused about something--you say the brokers 'wanted' you to take out a mortgage rather than paying cash. Is this because of a concern that you'd have insufficient liquid assets after the purchase? Did the brokers advise you with regards to the board's intolerance of ARMs? If not, that's a bit remiss on the brokers' part. If the building does not allow adjustable mortgages then you should have applied for a 30-yr fixed. The brokers should have offered guidance on this.
Hi Princess, first, I'd like to support bramstar's comments. Apartments are always prices as-is in NYC. All work needed is susually taken into account. If not, I would hope you did a good job negotiating. What interests me is that you would have seen the paint, the kitchen cabinets, the stove and the "bare bulb" on your first visit to the apartment. And when is a microwave included in purchases? It's not a game show. If these things put you off so much, why did you place a bid? I'm surprised you didn't have a full inspection done and asked about cable, electric, etc. BEFORE you signed a contract for over 1 million dollars!!! It sounds like you didn't do your homework.
I also know the building well and you are incorrect on a few points. First, the January 2011 maintenance increase was 6.9% and was almost entirely due to fuel and real estate taxes. Excluding these items, the maintenance increased less than 1%. Second, you would not have been turned down for a mortgage based on the building’s finances. The building sells apartments pretty consistently and many banks lend there. It sounds like the issue was on your side of the finances. Lastly, I visited the open house twice and James Perez represented the seller. So, I think you mean that Shelle Sklarsh was your broker on the buyer side.
Princess, it sounds like this might have been your first venture into NYC real estate...or the first in a few years? I'm very sorry this apartment didn't work out for you, but it sounds as though you've learned some good lessons for next time.
Firstly, I couldn't agree more with Arch and Bramstar - the issues you describe (older kitchen cabinets and sink, torn shades, some cracking paint) are extremely minor. Most apartments in this neighborhood will require far more than $10K worth of refurbishment. You were willing to spend $1.1M on an apartment you yourself describe as wonderful, but not not willing to buy new shades?
More importantly, you say that you didn't look carefully at the apartment before signing a contract. Princess, please be careful! You were lucky this time - the issues you missed were trivial - but you could have gotten yourself into a situation costing literally hundreds of thousands of dollars! Whether or not the apartment had furniture, you should have been able to see the cabinets, sink, light bulbs, and shades easily...it sounds as though you didn't do any sort of inspection at all, and are now trying to blame the seller. But this is the buyer's responsibility, not the seller's And you are an ex-contractor! Don't let your heart rule your head when it comes to real estate - do your due diligence.
Best of luck.
what's the point OP, tedious, bordering on banal post. It's great/they are great/board is great/it's crap/needs work/where are the keys wahhh. You sound like a jilted teenager writing on FatchBook about her boyfriend.
Hi Princess,
I agree with the comments above - it sounds as though this experience will be helpful as you move on to the next property. I do want to add, however, that you seem to be pretty hard on the seller here. Why put sarcastic "quotes" around your comment that she wanted to honor your contract? Sounds like a pretty upstanding move in this market, particularly since you have now been rejected by the board, leading to a loss of both money and time for the seller.
You also imply an attempt to hide flaws in the apartment - which makes little sense, since you also say you didn't inspect it. Plus, you have described the place as "gorgeous" and "lovely" with a nice layout in a good building. And it sounds as though both the seller and the Board were scrupulously honest about the building's finances.
So...take a deep breath, move on, and I'm sure you'll find a great place. But you might have a more serene time doing so if you didn't blame other people for your mistakes, or attack their integrity without cause.
I agree with Morningside here - it IS a bit nasty of you to criticize the apartment or make implications about the seller/building just because you were rejected by the Board. If your goal is transparency and keeping on one's "honest moral toes," you might look a bit closer to home.
Whoa! I've been completely misunderstood! and I certainly never meant to be sarcastic. This was the 3rd deal fallen through for me - from Harlem to Brooklyn and back to my old home, RSD - in the past 1-1/2 years.
.....tis true - I was an idiot to sign a contract so quickly.....and it WAS the seller's broker (I have the e-mail) who sent an e-mail to my broker stating "....and WHEN is {she} going to sign contract? There is another offer in the wings but seller will honor accepted offer..." - p.s. the poor seller may have known nothing of this.
and I saw the apartment furnished - twice - once at an open house - and once afterwards. The THIRD time I met the seller - she was on her way out the door - the moving trucks had come and gone - and she, lovely woman, was on her way to one of the Carolinas! There was absolutely NO attempt to hide flaws on her part - who knew that once the banquettes were moved away from the wall there were swaths of paint peeling off the walls, or that underneath the rugs floors were damaged, and behind hung pictures or full dressers lay walls that had not been skim-coated (as was stated in her renovation/alteration document) and that parts of the kitchen floor were missing (there was a table, banquettes and chairs when I saw it).
...and I have enough $$$ to cover that - it was the sickening feeling in my gut that told me I'd been hustled. YUP - I made a humongous mistake (with the exception of dealing with Shelle Sklarsh) re this apt.
...and my calculations are 100% right - and the Board, during my interview, flat out advised me that increases were expected every year r from here on out. I HAD projections for 10 years down the line under my belt....
...and yes, the SELLER'S BROKER - not mine - wanted MY package to be 'beefed' up - I won't print my response to that rot. At 65 y.o. having previously owned right here on 86th Street, RSD, in Singapore, in CT etc. over the past 25 years I don't and will not lie - I have kids to answer to in terms of setting an example. (whether they know it or not is so beyond the point) Yeah, I have a moral thread and obligation - that's what my life is about. Is that a problem?
...any building that doesn't have good finances - in this economy and housing market (ny is not exempt - except for the rich of course) should be suspect - the banks were - my atty ADVISED ME of same
...where are the keys wahhhh? Facebook? In the next life .... and go get a life - or read something else prior to responding to serious issues faced by all. perhaps you're a native New Yorker with that crusty, contemptuous xenophobic chip on your shoulder
romary - well, have at it.
...
My financials are beyond the pale - as is my income stream - w/exceptions due to 'acts of God' for crying out loud.
...and it was the SELLER'S BROKER who insisted I get a mortgage - and since (caveat emptor) I'd signed the contract I said 'okay' and proceeded to apply.
....guess what - not one fannie/freddie farts would give me a mortgage because I am divorced (this is not a joke) and the savings and loan associations, banks, etc. OUTSIDE OF NYC initially gave me a committment and then RENAGED due to the balloon mortgage on the building and it's lack of reserves.
....so yup, it's NYC - and I am a dyed in the wool New Yorker (now part-timer) - but not given to that ridiculously stupid 'caveat emptor' rot as if I, the buyer with the bucks, have no rights. This stuff does not fly elsewhere, clearly.
The board was right to reject me - the minute the meeting was over, as I was walking to the subway, my broker called, my lawyer called, etc..... "how was it?"
gimme a break - it's not a life or death situation. oh, and the seller's BROKER, attempted to strong-arm my broker (Shelle Sklarsh was my 'packager' at Halstead, NOT my broker) and me - and my atty for crissake even BEFORE THE BOARD MEETING. threatening a law suit against me if I "blew it" Well, I ask you - how the hell would anyone know? It's all 'at the discretion of the Board' no?
...and this Board, 99% of whom were women (Perez stated "the board is all men and they don't like divorced women" ) were not the 'coven' everyone is supposed to be so 'professionally polite' to; rather, they were, in fact, scrupulously honest, knew their building like they knew their own souls and asked me some of the most difficult financial questions and/or scenarios I've ever had to work with.
They remain, clearly, blameless. I also believe the seller is without blame. And so what if I made a mistake .... who hasn't? My point was not to blame or excuse myself. Clearly, I need a course in expository writing.
I did take a deep breath - thanks Morningside - and know that I was absolutely not right for that building .... AND LEST WE ALL FORGET IT WAS NOT RIGHT FOR ME.
Also know I was totally prepared to lose my deposit - indeed, I was sure I would - I was delighted to receive a check in the mail, plus interest, less than one week later. Then another check, for $500, from Long Island Savings and Loan - the one attached to my 'packages' commitment letter - the only lender who would give me a mortgage (at a very low rate, but high APR making my monthly nut $400 more than a fannie/freddie fart would have been.
Clearly, my intent in writing my first discussion so many months ago was poorly understood - and perhaps ill-conceived. I thought I was sharing MY MISTAKES which MIGHT have helped another.
I do see, now, that I was somewhat dishonest in that I did not want to be specific about my experience with the seller's broker, James Perez .... a man whom I was advised was 'very very smart' which turned out to be b.s. He is very very sly and cunning. There's a difference.
In any event, it is almost 5 months later - 370 RSD, 6-E is still on the market - I was surprised to even find myself coming back here - startled to see responses!
Thanks for all your comments - be well. Onward!
Just for the record, a new contract on #6E appears to have been signed about two weeks ago.
Princesscbbop: The possibility that you may have suffered discrimination on the basis of marital status is troubling. Keep in mind that many divorces leave a cloud over a person's finances: shared obligations; complex assets pending disposition; dependence on unreliable income from a hostile party. Even if none of those issues apply to your situation, that might have been the type of problem to which JP was alluding when he said the Board "doesn't like divorced women".
Boards loathe uncertainty. Divorces can undermine financial planning quite dramatically - especially, as many studies have documented, for women. Those statistics don't justify discrimination, but they might help to explain a pattern of disproportionate rejections - assuming JP is right, and such a pattern even exists.
If a Brown Harris Stevens selling broker wants the package to be "beefed up" and the buyer thinks that's "rot", and then there's a turndown, how is that discrimination?
Sounds like OP is a relatively high-asset, low-income (or risk-attached income) buyer, who should be looking at condominiums.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
I think that all posts, initial or otherwise, should be a million words or less.
The potential discrimination lies in the comment "The board doesn't like divorced woman". Beef up the board package is just "lie about your finances".
Keith Burkhardt (broker)
I ran across this while doing my research on another unit in the building. I'm amazed that princesscbbop has posted twice on this. Reading your comments sounds like a terrible combination of sour grapes, spite and cowardice.
A few points for you, princesscbbop:
First, a selling broker's interest lies in you passing the board. They don't get the deal unless you pass and take possession. If he thought the board wouldn't like you for whatever reason, he likely would have counseled his client to reject your bid. Especially seeing as he had other offers.
Second, you initially claimed "The brokers were lovely and accommodating........." Now, for some reason you come back on and call out someone by name, though they were "lovely" before. This is the ultimate act of cowardice. I'm sure the broker doesn't even know he's being mentioned on here so he can defend himself. On the main page he is listed as the top seller in the building. I'm sure he knows the composition of the board, and it wouldn't make sense for him to mislead you.
Third, you stated that "My financials are beyond the pale - as is my income stream - w/exceptions due to 'acts of God' for crying out loud," BUT, in your original comment you stated that "As I am a single woman 'of a certain age' with plenty of $$$$ right now, and what I thought were serious $$$$ for the future, I believe the future , for them - with me in the building - simply was not going to be enough - for me or them 5 years down the road....and my finances MAY change on a dime given that I am a divorced woman with a son - and I am the custodial parent."
How can you completely disregard everything you wrote weeks ago to come up with a new, seemingly fictitious story. Why would you make these claims to try to damage someone's reputation? Why would you do this to the poor seller who you claim is so nice? And what was your broker doing this whole time? Why were you working so closely with the listing broker? There's something fishy about your story.
Clearly you are not board approvable, as you have been turned down three time. It is probably best you are now only a part-time New Yorker, as you state, because it seems you don't have what it takes to live here.
And the winner is.....MtWalker! You said it all and not to confuse another thread: What I miss about Old NYC are people like you.
"Also know I was totally prepared to lose my deposit - indeed, I was sure I would - I was delighted to receive a check in the mail, plus interest" - wow, at 0.3% - what did you do with your windfall?
Hey Mt. Walker - don't know who you are quoting - but it's not me. and to you too, Bill7284.... don't know where you got the notion that I wrote my first commentary on my experience "weeks ago"
......more like 3 months ago ........ and where the hell did anyone get the idea I was turned down 3 times? Does anyone READ these comments or do y'all just write whatever the hell suits your fancy.
research my ass.
'windfall'? and what windfall is it that is spoken of? it WAS MY $110,000 that I put down. Since when is two hundred bucks tied up for three months a windfall?
and 'what was my broker doing this whole time?' she was a newbie - doing nothing. I worked with my 'packager' lest y'all can't read - at the same firm of course - very awkward situation at first. ....
Clearly, I AM board approvable given that I am now in a coop right down the street - on RSD - I was turned down by one board for a total of ONE time.
"discrimination" I don't see where I ever mentioned any kind of discrimination. I quoted the poor seller's broker. who is clever, cunning and sly - not smart.
"What I miss about Old NYC are people like you"? I am "old NYC" and there are, unfortunately, more than a zillion of us missing. So true!
I think all posts should be first - literate - and last- literate.
Praise all the deities that I am fortunate enough not to have to live here full-time! and praise them again I've been able to live here for over 40 years in most commodious and harmonious circumstances ..... having worked hard and well all my very rich, very colorful, and extraordinarily rewarding life.
This is so fun!
coops are just a wacky concept.
doesen't take too many locos to screw the pooch.
I wonder what it might take to convert more coops into condos?
princess....
time to isolate your searches to condos.
interviews are not everyone's strong suit.
Just for the record, my comments above were simply to point out what was the implied "lie" and possible "discrimination" in regards to what another poster stated. My comments were meant to be a bit cheeky, not to assume that the op was indeed told to lie or in fact was discriminated against.
I bring this up because as many know me, I do strive to keep the emotions out of my posts and stick to facts. The above matter is of a very serious nature and I should not have taken it light heartedly.
Keith Burkhardt (broker)
falcogold 1....
again, am firmly and happily ensconsed in an RSD coop. Would MUCH rather have selected a condo. However, I am what might be considered and 'anomolous' buyer in a very 'small court market' and new/old condos (that is, those that have gone through their 1-2 year litigations and sorted out the settling of a new conversion or development) just don't have a load of inventory right now (i.e., condos 5-10 y.o)
Also true that interviews are not everyone's strong suit. I never felt badly about my interview ..... it was RIGOROUS.....as a woman being queried by other women who'd 'been there, done that' in their own building I was truly impressed.....and, again, want to state that they were 100% right to turn me down at 370 RSD.
Keith 8 ....
You are correct - I, too, have a tendency to be a bit 'cheeky' .... which perhaps gets in the way of my writing about what was - and continues to be - a matter of very serious nature.
When one reads "The Real Deal" for example, one may ascertain that CLOSE, CLOSE, CLOSE and $$$$$ are all that matters. Just as many $$$$ can be made (my personal opinion only) by everyone doing their job ...... which means agents/brokers/reps matching buyers/sellers/homes .... carefully and with right 'intention'
....to do otherwise perpetuates fraud on the part of sellers themselves - and their aligned agents/brokers/reps .... and rightly held paranoia and fear on the part of buyers.
Bramstar ..... perhaps you, too, are correct in assuming that $10k is chump change when viewing an apt. I did not know that. I expected an advert of 'triple mint' to mean that it was in move-in condition (for anyone).
thanks so much all of you!
charon
>I think all posts should be first - literate - and last- literate.<
How can a post be "literate"? Please explain.
Princess, the apartment listing (which is still on the BHS website) doesn't say anything about 'triple mint.' You keep implying there was some sort of deception or false advertising, which really seems quite unlikely.
deceptive adverts or descriptions 'really seems quite unlikely?"
Dear Liza 123 the original advert SAID "triple mint" - clearly you were not on board and did not go to the first OH - which is where I received the broadside/flyer .... and after one other visit (apt. furnished still) signed a contract on.
as for deceptive adverts or descriptions "really seems quite unlikely?" - you either do not live in Manhattan - purchased something that was 100% from flyer to close from a seller who hired THE MOST REPUTABLE broker in town (if there is such a person).......
....and p.s. of course the listing is STILL on BHS - it is STILL for sale - AND it's still here on streeteasy - with the wrong info re maintenance. (I sent them a correction - right from my contract and memo to shareholders dated Jan 1, 2011).
Research, research, research ........ and proof, proof, proof before clocking off on serious misinformation.
Princess just curious you said they were right to turn you down so you must have an idea as to why and agree with their decision. People have been speculating but obvious you know why.
Glad to know that you found something you're happy with. Enjoy. I love living on the UWS near Riverside.
Only a true idiot signs a contract based on a "flyer" and one OH visit. It is up to the buyer to satisfy him-/herself as to what shape the apartment is in and bid accordingly. A savvy buyer knows to read any "advert" with a grain of salt as listing descriptions can contain errors and omissions.
Let it go, OP. Move on. Stop badgering the listing agent with "corrections" based on outdated info from six months ago. No one is interested in your continued whining.
FYI, the apartment closed yesterday; it sold for $1.125M.