The Gateway Condominium

The lobby is being renovated and is 99% complete.

Does anyone know people that currently live right on FDB on the 5th floor of this building or the 5th to 8th floors of the Douglass, Parc Standard or Livmor? Trying to get a sense of what the noise factor's like for a street-facing unit. Currently live on a non-street facing unit on a side street and it's super quiet here...

up

I live on the 5th floor of the Livmor facing FDB. The street noise itself in terms of cars/buses is not bad. However there are always people hanging out somewhere close to 114th and FDB as I am able to hear them late at night. Now when I say this please note that in reality I have tuned them out as I did when i used to hear the bus kneeling sound 20 floors below when i lived on the UWS.

My bedroom is not on FDB, so I am not really bothered when i sleep.

So i would say it all depends on how you feel about noise and what you are able to get used to.

MikeV - thanks for the feedback. We're considering a couple of units in which the bedrooms actually are on FDB so it's a bit of a concern. Good to know that it's not the traffic noise as much as the people noise.

Looks like they inflated the prices at Gateway. Why?

'inflated'? relative to the area? or to what?

The area.

Mikev...any issues with the kids from Wadleigh HS (on 114th) before, during, or after school?

I honestly am only around first thing in the morning and way after school ends. All I could tell you is that there are a lot of kids getting off the subway every morning when i am heading to work. They do not cause any issues at this time around the 116th subway station. Generally I find the area fine. With the mosque across the street there are some nights, mostly weekends where the kids are running all over the sidewalk in front of the mosque, but in the playing sort of way, so while it could be annoying to listen to, there are no issues.

I believe they inflated them because of perceived buyer interest due to high turn out at the open houses...BIG mistake imho!

tobuyornot- I disagree. I was looking for almost two years and think the value is there. While not as high end as some of the other buildings further up (like 88 morning side & Apex, etc.) The pricing is comparable or better to all of the new construction or new developments in the area.

When you couple that with the lower maintenance and 25yr tax abatement, they seem fairly and competitively priced. And btw- they are somewhat negotiable on the ask pricing...

Prices seem to be quite negotiable. Just take a look at apt 5C, which appears to have had a last ask of $500,000 and closed for ~$266,000. That's almost a 47% discount.

5C was a lottery.

I agree with Bloomsday...5C had to be a lottery! No way you're going to get a 47% discount on anything Norm Horowits is selling. In actuality, they're really not all that negotiable on pricing - I disagree that pricing is comparable or better to other new developments in the area. Livmor was WAY cheaper and had better finishes/appliances and even SoHa118 has better price per sq ft on some of their remaining units.

Anyone know what floor 6PQ is on? Appears to be under contract but I don't remember ever seeing it on their listing sheet...not that I can afford it, just curious ;)

tobuyornot- Livmor was not much cheaper and is basically sold out now. Take a look at the Apex, 88 Morningside, & 2280 Fred Douglass Boulevard and you'll see how these developers are pricing the neighborhood now. It seems to me that prices are just much higher overall than they were 6-12 months ago. And I was just comparing 2098 FDB to the new price points... (the time to buy was apparently 2yrs ago-lol)

As for 6PQ- it is a combination of the "P" & the "Q" on the sixth floor. (based on the 7PQ listing I see on the Halstead website)

Apex average asking price is $172 per square foot less, and the finishes are much nicer! Plus, that includes an affordable unit, which drags the average price per square foot DOWN for this building, so the Apex is really even more attractive (and it has no affordable units).

2280 FDB I find to be overpriced, especially for the level of the finishes. Now that the Apex has decent common charges, I can't see why someone would choose it. 88 Morningside I find more reasonable for what you get.

MidTownWGeek-
I totally agree regarding the finishes and you make a good point about the square foot pricing, at least as it appears on the surface. However after doing my due diligence I found out that the common charges are only being temporarily reduced by the sponsor paying 25% for the first five years. After-which they will climb right back up. And because there are not many units to share/spread out the costs, they are likely to rise well beyond their current levels. -Additionally they only have a 15 year tax abatement as opposed to 25 at 2098 FDB Those two things will have a great impact on the property's value and potential re-sale value in the long term as well.

Lastly- (and very subjectively I admit) 2098 is one block from Morningside Park and only three blocks away from Central Park. And they already have better all around amenities in the surrounding area and are directly adjacent and convenient to the UWS, which I think is preferable.

-As they say in real estate "location location location"

"directly adjacent and convenient to UWS"

Correction: Gateway Condominium is directly adjacent to Manhattan Valley, not UWS. Manhattan Valley may be directly adjacent to UWS, but no one in their right mind would confuse living in Manhattan Valley with living on the UWS. Just walk around a bit.

You're wrong about the common charges. The buy-down is from $.932 a square foot to $.755, which is a 19% buy-down. The common charges started out at about $1.70 per square foot, back when they planned on having valet parking, etc. I've gone over the budget with lawyers and accountants, and it's sound.

The 15 year abatement is actually preferable to luxury buyers, because it means there aren't "affordable" units in the building.

The building is the same distance from Morningside, and is very close to the express stop (the local sucks!). Plus, the retail corridor on 125th is much more convenient, especially for those used to comforts like Duane Reade. I think 88 Morningside is probably more ideally positioned than even the Apex.

And $200 a square foot is a massive difference. The common charges would pretty much have to be negative for the economics to be better at the Gateway, especially for anyone planning on moving again in 15 years.

PMG- Forgive me, I was born and raised on the UWS and "Manhattan Valley" is still a fairly new and seemingly odd descriptive to me.

The "Upper West Side" originally meant from the 70's to 110th street RSD to CPW
North of that was simply either Morningside Heights or Harlem -the divide being Morningside Park (which was a disaster back in the day to say the least)
So while I see your point, it's all the same to me... (IMHO)

And I have been walking around a lot lately and the neighborhood reminds me of what Alphabet City looked like 15 yrs ago at the start of the renewal.

as to the quality of this building,
1) when I toured the Lore (same developer), you could actually ski down across the living room I saw, from one side to the other- and the broker was surprised to see this- hadn't noticed before, or perhaps it all warped like that overnight?,...
2) the gym in the gateway already reaks of mold, clearly replete with similar leaks to the Lore

...and yes, it is a shame, it's an otherwise nice location- minus the smell of gasoline from the corner,...

I lived in Manhattan Valley for 20 years. It sure ain't the Upper West Side. Nobody I know here thinks they live on the Upper West Side. BTW, Alphabet City was still pretty sketcy 15 years ago. Manhattan Valley had tons of drug dealing, but we never have anything like heroin infested Tompkins Square Park.

PS - Who considers Duane Reade an Amenity?

Any current residents or someone who's been to their open house lately? Just curious of what you think of the building and pricing? Any other building suggestions in the neighborhood with low common charges,I should look at? Thanks.

Like the Lore, the Gateway has only electric heat. I suppose this could raise your monthlies substantially. 114th can get noisy.
Sales in this area have been pretty brisk however. Take a look at Livmor's remaining 1 bedrooms.

mcbrawn1- a couple of things- define what exactly "Manhattan Valley" means to you- As I'm sure everyone on CPW and all the folks living on Broadway and west of there to Riverside Drive consider themselves "Upper West Siders"... And as for the drug infestation in Tompkins Square Park- I can assure you it was nothing compared to the Drug MEGAmarkets on 107th Street btwn Columbus & Manhattan Ave (and the surrounding 2-3 block radius as well)from the Mid 80's through the late 90's.

harlembuyer- you are right about the electric heat and I myself am not a fan of any heating system w/o humidification built in. however I checked into it and the units they are using are surprisingly energy efficient and therefore should be cost effective.

BarbaraC- I'd suggest you take a look at Central Park Plaza at 1851 Adam C Powell Boulevard. The spaces are huge, well done, and the maintenance fees are quite low. - that said, you have to weigh in that the transition on that block will take a little longer and decide if it's worth it to you. -although IMHO, in the end everything Adam Clayton Powell will be more desirable, because of the bigger footprints, the large Boulevard, at and especially the aesthetics....

Good luck to all!

Looks like they have their first closing in the new part of the building and it closed for a little over 5% higher than asking...6R closed for $896k which is $46k higher than the original ask price of $850k.

Be sure to enough due-dilligence on the building and sponsor. The sponsor of this building has a pretty bad reputation in the couple of condo buildings he has in the area. Extremely unprofessional and at times unethical in his business practices.

We've had only good dealings with the Sponsor, issues that have come up (and there are issues when there is ongoing construction) have been addressed and dispatched quickly and professionally. I can speak for our family (we are residents) - our dealings with all aspects of this building and the sponsor/developer have been well above expectations.

realinvest, homebase has no idea of what he is saying talked to a friend that bought in one of his spots and his credibility and his company's credibility has to be challenged. They like to play hard ball and control everything. Get a whale of an attorney if dealing with this developer and Horowitz.

realinvest, What other developments did this sponsor manage in the area?

The sponsor also built The Lore. Here's a good article on why the Gateway already used up 5 years of the 25 yr tax abatement and the problems of birthing this building. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704629804575324962866503430.html?mod=WSJ_NY_RealEstate_LEADNewsCollection

harlembuyer- the tax abatement on the individual units does not begin until "a first occupant" has closed and takes possession, etc.

realinvest/holmes- the developer has gotten mixed reviews of both their work and business practices. so while I agree buyers need to proceed cautiously, clearly there are also satisfied purchasers, which means there is good reason to consider these properties, especially the Gateway.

We are possibly considering this building and would like to hear from current owners or anyone else who might be considering this property. Any advice welcomed...

tcolon: We are considering to buy in the building as well. The location seems very good and ~19years of tax abatement are left. We looked at other places (5th on the park, apex, 2280 FDB, ...) and almost baught a place at the apex, but because major banks do not finance the apex building and consider it high risk, we decided not to do it. The Gateway location is better with nice living space.... There are restaurants and shopping around and the streets are busy with people walking to/from central and morningside park....

I bought a condo 3 months ago at the Gateway Tower 3 months ago and I do think that I made the right choice. Frederick Douglass Bvd is becoming more and more attractive and it is only 3 blocks from Central Park.

EasyHarlem what apartment are you looking at :). Hoping it's not the same one LOL...
I like the neighborhood. We actually went to one of the restaurants there last Thursday and had a wonderful meal and the place was so lively. The location of this building is what makes it the most attractive being so close to central park and their roof deck is amazing.

gilharlem--How are the neighbors? In general I find that people are friendly in that area. How was the whole negotiating process?

Thank you both for your feedback :)! Hope we can be neighbors in the near future.

Hi tcolon,

Actually I live in Europe. I bought an apartment because one of my daughters is going to study in New-york and the whole family is fun of Manhattan. I personally like West Harlem amd Hamilton Heights ; people are very friendly and prices are more affordable. Gateway Tower is maybe not the best condominium that I have visited but it the best trade-off (proximity from Central Park and FD Boulevard is more and more lively (bars, restaurants, shops).

tcolon: LOL, no worries we are not cometeing for he same apprtment, ours is already unter contract ;-). Let me know if you are moving into the building as well.... Good Luck...

Anyone care to comment on the noise levels from the street? We're looking at a 1st floor unit and I'm concerned about outside noise

thanks!

anyone know anything about the litigation in the building?

I understand that the building is involved in lots of litigation. The building supposedly has zero reserves, a special assessment but a litigation budget of almost $200k. They also took one of the elevators from half the residents (sounds like another law suit). If you're looking at certain floors, you'll likely have to take an old beat up elevator. The building sounds like a big mess.

I am looking to rent in the building, can you provide some information on the elevator situtation? Does it mean that if i rent on the 3rd floor i will only be able to use the smaller elevator? I have a disabled relative, will he fit in the smaller car? Thank you in advance for your info!

the current lawsuit preventing most mortgage applications related to this building is very stupid, long story short:

1. there was a big open roof top with very few private penhouse gardens 2 years ago when the builder sold most units
2. starting last year, the builder turned most of the beautiful open roof top into private gardens for a lot of top floor units, most likely a lot of additional profits
3. now the roof common area is almost limited to 4 enclosed walls under the sky, most residents are not happy
4. thus the management company stopped the builder's roof top garden conversion job
5. the builder is angry so they sue the building and the management company

Apthunter 2013, That's correct, you would only have access to the smaller elevator. I was looking at two units for sale in the building (one on the third floor and one on the fifth) and the elevator situation is making me rethink the building. The brokers are also telling me that it is difficult to get financing approved in the building.

How can the elevators go back to the way they were? Can the board be kicked out?

caonima
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>the current lawsuit preventing most mortgage applications related to this building is very stupid, long story short:
...

caonima, is that you? Did you log in under the wrong name?

We looked at the apartments available back in 2005 before they began construction of the new sections of the building. They had remodeled the apartments over the original store fronts and the apartment house on their north corner. Although everything looked nice, we didn't like the quality of the kitchens and bathrooms and the rooms were very small. Also, many apartments were on air shafts, so you were looking directly across at your neighbors from a VERY short distance. The corner apartment house was better as far as the air shafts went, but their plans for elevator were rather vague. We took a second look a few months later and the elevator situation still had not been resolved. So the building at that point was really a walk-up. They also had pushed out the start date for the construction of the new section of the building.

huntersburg, my roomie nycmatt stoled my brooks2 passwd

Jelj13 - I noticed the air shafts as well. But that doesn't bother me as much as the legal problems the building has - which I understand has to do with the board's decisions. I also understand from brokers that the elevators will likely go back to stopping on all the floors, but I want to see that before buying.

Apthunter 2013 - are you still looking in the building?

Will any bank approve a loan here? Seems serious lawsuit if no bank will touch it.

Roger10026 - i came back to have a second look - but the "elevator situation" and litigation in the building suggested unpleasant atmosphere. Although i am just looking to rent, i want a community feel, instead i felt segregated. Ended up renting elsewhere in the neighborhood.

There is no "elevator situation" in the building: There was one owner (apparently a friend of the sponsor/developer) who decided that when an improvement/change was being implemented, that he did not approve and tried to make a big issue out of it- He created a minor stir, momentarily, amongst the other owners to garner support for his position. Then he (or perhaps the sponsor) called in the buildings department to determine the legality of the situation. The Bldg dept came and reviewed and deemed everything was up to code and legal.

Furthermore- after a week or two, almost all of the owners and residents began to recognize and appreciate the improvement in service that had been implemented and a vast majority now all approve.
(FYI- there is no “old beat up” elevator)

As for community: the building held a town hall meeting a few month ago so that the board, management, and the residents could exchange ideas, share their concerns and find ways to all work collaboratively, moving forward.

Additionally- The building has two very active committees (decorating and hospitality) both of them making positive contributions and enhancements to the buildings quality of life, as evidenced by the additional plantings and furnishings on the roof and first ever building wide social held about a month ago.

Regarding legal issues/litigation: There is only one lawsuit and that was brought by the sponsor- solely to serve his own interests and it is without merit and frivolous. And almost all of buildings issues, past, present, and in the foreseeable future (both legal and financial) tie directly back to the sponsor/developer. And the sponsor has a track record that speaks for itself. (Its public - Google it/him)

Investment perspective: Interest in the building remains high and sales have been ongoing with prices rising. Buyers and owners have been obtaining financing/refinancing.
(albeit with lenders carefully scrutinizing each deal)

Board/Mgmt: Although the buildings finances were and continue to be an issue- the board has managed to make many improvements along with upgrading operations & maintenance activities, planning additional future upgrades, all while still addressing and improving their financial footing. And so it looks like all they will need is a little more time to get everything to where it should be, as they make steady incremental progress.

Roger- the only legal problem is one baseless lawsuit filed by the sponsor, which he will ultimately lose, if it actually ever even gets to a courtroom. However unfortunately this is an all too common occurrence these days in new condo construction in NYC. But of course it's a bad look for anyone on the outside hearing about it, and not having all of the facts and or understanding the situation.

AptHunter- The residents are by and large a very nice and friendly group and there certainly is a feeling of community within the building. So whoever told you differently may have had an axe to grind and or an ulterior motive.

Ray- Buyers and getting mortgages and current owners are also refinancing in the building as well.

As I posted several years ago, Con ed rates being what they are, living in an apt with electric heat can get really expensive.

HarlemBuyer-
Some of the units use electric heat, but some do not and have heat supplied through a central boiler. (depends on where in the building you buy)
However they installed very energy efficient units, so the costs have been reasonable.

All of the units we looked at in the new "pop-top" were electric heat. The building must have a reserve fund or bnks would not lend there.

Sharp – Obviously you live in the building, so I can understand the defensive position (or “ulterior motive”) – but good try. I don’t know what banks you are working with – but no major bank is providing financing in the building (which explains the recent all cash deals). I checked again today and the banks noted litigation, insufficient reserves and one mortgage broker noted slow board review. I suggest you lobby the building to become more investor friendly and try to convince the banks to provide financing.

As to the litigation, it’s nice that you think it’s a baseless lawsuit filed by the sponsor, but the banks obviously do not agree with you. The fact that the sponsor is suing actually concerns me even more. Although in the end, if prices come down enough, some of the apartments might be worth the risk.

AptHunter – congrats on the new place (hope you are enjoying it). A segregated feeling is not what someone looks forward to in a home. The selling brokers are still promising the elevator service will be restored. Perhaps that and the resolution of the litigation will improve the atmosphere.

Ray – agreed, the lack of financing can result in additional lawsuits (although it does present those willing to pay cash with good values).

no big banks will approve mortgage in this building until the lawsuit is done. the sponsor is wellknown to be nasty so they won't backdown.

as sharpguy suggested, people can always go for predatory loans with very high interest (like double the current rate), but only fools will get it

yes, there is community feel in the building. actually more than 1. there are mainly 3 communities in the building. one is the original residents who started living there before the condo conversion, the second is the lucky affordable unit lottery winners, and the rest are the rich SOBs who bought later

Roger- I don't know where you are supposedly getting your info from, but it's way off base.

The banks ARE lending in the building to both new buyers and owners looking to refi.
(although rising rates are not helping anyone)

And the lawsuit is public info- so go google it and you'll see it is baseless.
(and the condo is insured)

Gateway Guy- I agree with your assessment of the building, the current situation, and the community in general.

Any idea what this litigation status is? I contacted 5 banks and none of the banks will finance this building so the sales are only available to people who can do 100% cash