building at 382 Central Park West

This the same one that traded around 556k 4 years ago?

Why apartments here are stuck for more than a year? Prices and layouts seem reasonable.

so why do apartments in this complex sit on the market for so long? layouts are generous, buildings are nice? any thoughts?

I love the way people claim that there's no work involved concerning a real estate broker. The art of negotiating requires years and years of experience. A good broker is worth every penny.

I used to own an apartment at 372 CPW. I had a studio but good views of Central Park. But those buidings are essentially projects. And most people don't see the park. If one looks north and sess the park it's just not as good as looking south or west with park views.

So whoever is selling in this building, a good broker would be worth their salt.

The art of selling cars
The art of polishing nails
The art of being a maid
The art of being a whore
The art of war
The art of thinking highly of yourself when a four week study course suffices.

Hey fktard. My wife is a doc and she already knows about CPW project north. So is she 10x the brain as you, or are we squawking about your ability to ride the train?

Flmaoz.

I was about to say that I didn't see 6J on the market -- but now I see that this thread is three years old.

But I disagree with StreetSmart's view of it as "essentially projects" -- other than the way the exterior looks. The interiors don't feel like projects, the people aren't the sort of people you'd find in projects (they're older and generally upscale), the neighborhood doesn't feel like the projects, and the management isn't remotely similar to being in the projects. I get that the "four identical buildings made of red brick surrounded by grass with a playground and parking lot in the middle" has a "projects" feel to it...and, yeah, there's that. The buildings plant gardens and take steps to make themselves look as pretty on the outside as possible, but...there's just an architectural style that says "projects" to some people, and these buildings are definitely in that style. No way around it. But that's where any similarity ends.

I further disagree with the idea that "most people don't see the park." I can see the park just fine, as well as both the north and east sides of it and the rivers. My apartment points north, yes -- but because there's a two-block open area in the middle of the complex, the view is...really fantastic, in my opinion. Is it the perfect, west-facing view that allows you to look up and down CPW? No. But it's very nice.

The buildings aren't perfect -- this balcony project has me just about ready to climb the walls, for example, and I understand that the buildings require a fair amount of exterior maintenance along those lines. But...all-in-all, I really like it.

STOP....I would love to live there but studios are $550k, crazy..i've made offers and they will not budge under that number which is why they sit on the market for so long.

I used to rent there and wanted to buy an apt there for a while, but found that strange things were going on especially with sponsor apartments and those who put them on the market. Something changed 2-3 years ago.
I heard so many lies from brokers (since I used to live there I could tell), more than the usual amount, sponsor apartments were renovated quickly in a very cheap and sloppy way and offered for unbelievable prices, not negotiable, and they didn't seem to mind at all that there were no buyers around, willing to pay what they asked. I decided to buy somewhere else, because I felt like some kind of real estate mafia was in control there.

Yeah, I've never really understood what was going on with the pricing, either. I wish I could offer insight, but...it's weird.

The apartments are generous in size, but the feel of the buildings is of a project. Many people don't want to live in a building with 400 apartments, particularly when it's served by only one doorman. There are multiple entrances to the building which is a security concern, and there are no service elevators causing major delays when the trash is collected or someone is moving in or out. Also the hallways aren't air conditioned, only the lobby is. 97th through 100th Street will always be dicey due to the large projects on 100th street, and many urban renewal building between CPW and Broadway north of 86th Street.

The views at 372 & 382 facing north are the prefered views, particularly those with balconies which have a great view of the park.

realestateny...sounds terrible but why are the prices so high?

382 is the worst of the four Park West condo buildings. The apartments are laid out nicely, many with terraces and large sunny exposures. That being said, the buildings are on the verge of dilapidation. Repairs are a regular occurrence. Two elevators per side and no freight elevator. Non air-conditioned hallways. They were built for working, middle class people. They will never be luxury units. I wouldn't pay more than $780 for a one bedroom in 382.

Again, I disagree with the idea that the "feel of the buildings is of a project." Perhaps that comes from actually knowing what a housing project is like -- but this is simply nothing like a project.

Yes, they are large buildings -- but every building I've ever lived in was large. In fact, this has fewer units than my last building. (The difference, as far as I can tell, is that my old building was 40 stories and clad in that cheap sheet-metal they use in "luxury" buildings these days.) True, there are multiple entrances in PWV buildings (if you count the basement service doors) -- only the lobby is ever unlocked, but I guess for some people the mere existence of other doors is a concern. Service elevators would be nice, I guess -- about once a week I have to wait more than 30 seconds for an elevator. And if you really need your hallways to be air-conditioned, they aren't. If that makes you feel like you're in the projects...well, frankly, you and I should take a little walk someday.

As for the neighborhood, I don't see it -- I've never felt even slightly unsafe. Yes, there is a housing project a few blocks up. No, it's not going to exude rays of poorness out into the neighborhood to steal your poodle. There aren't strange people hanging out around the doors or looking furtive on street corners, for example. And with the new Whole Foods and other stores, it's really becoming very nice.

Look, I'm not saying that these buildings are perfect, or that this neighborhood is ideal for everyone. There's no denying that living up here has both advantages and disadvantages -- and that the architecture is much prettier further down. And these buildings are a little unattractive -- no matter how many tulips we plant out front, they're never going to be an I.M. Pei.

I just take a little offense at the idea that they're "projects" -- they're nothing of the kind.

Perfectly safe, nice area, but overpriced for what they are.

As I recall, there is also a door in the rear of the lobby that leads to the parking lot, making 4 entrances and exits. Very few Manhattan building have over 400 apartments, and those that do generally have a doorman and concierge, that's one of the reasons the maintenence is so low, understaffed lobby.

The large front garden is unique for Manhattan, but I always thought had they cut a circular driveway up to the front entrance, and added a elaborate awning, it would have given the building some panache, again in an effort to keep maintenance low only real maintenance is done like pointing, roofing, plumbing, etc.

I know the development well, definitely has lots of light and air, but it will never be anything like the Upper Westside below 86th Street. I said the neighborhood was dicey, I didn't say it was a slum. Wasn't much in the way of street life on CPW, Columbus or Amsterdam, North of 86th, don't know if that has changed much but I don't think anyone would consider it a convenient place for movies, restaurants, and general services when compared to other comparably prices neighborhoods.

Having known the place when you could rent for $60 per sqft, I guess I think the place is expensive for what it is.

I agree that the neighborhood isn't as exciting as below 86th Street -- though there's a lot more development up here now than you might expect. We do need to get some more restaurants -- but I think that's coming in as the retail develops further. Again, I'm not saying that it's the best spot in Manhattan -- and I do tend to think that it's often over-priced lately. (It was all I could do to get a realistic price, despite a large inventory.) I'm just saying that the neighborhood isn't "dicey," and that "projects" is a wild mischaracterization.

I've actually now lived in three buildings with this many units -- none of which had more than one doorman. Since there is always additional staff on duty, I'm not sure what a concierge would do beyond sit in the lobby looking bored. I guess he could watch the back door of the lobby -- but despite having two doors, the lobby just isn't big enough to need two people watching it. (The other two "entrances" aren't accessible.)

You might actually be surprised by what 382 is doing right now, by the way. It's not a circular driveway (which would mean destroying a beautiful lawn), but it is a major lobby renovation and re-design of the front lawn -- I don't think they're going with an elaborate awning, but it's looking pretty nice thus far.

everything being said what is the explanation for the high prices since the bldgs look like projects, understaffed, etc.

Charges/taxes are pretty low, for starters.

But note that I'm too lazy to figure out whether high asking prices are even near justified by lowish charges/taxes, so I'm not defending prices.

Julia -- Part of it may be that the buildings aren't understaffed. The staff just aren't sitting in the lobby looking bored -- but between doormen, parking lot security, and the downstairs staff that are always running around, there are a lot of people on duty at any given time. But, yes, charges and taxes are low.

Other than that? Well, please allow me to lay on you a wild-ass guess -- divorced from any sort of reality, and completely out of my rear-end. My wild-ass guess is that a lot of sellers don't need to sell. There seem to be four kinds of sellers in these buildings: 1) the sponsor, 2) people retiring to Florida, 3) people who bought a long time ago and rent out or otherwise use the space sparingly, and 4) people who have bought in the last 10 years and are moving.

Of these, only the last category has any urgency to sell. The sponsor doesn't care how long it takes to sell units at top market price, because they're just investments (and he's already held them for, like, 25 years). And while old people are ready to sell...if it takes two years, then it takes two years. They're in no hurry -- they've got no mortgage, and taxes and fees are so low that they can just keep rattling around the Fairway indefinitely. (Plus these buildings have a lot of amenities geared towards older people -- it's not such a bad place to retire, apparently.) And people who got in when these places cost $75,000 don't mind paying $600 a month in taxes and fees for a 1-bedroom in the city -- particularly if they can rent it out for $2,500. They might cash out for the right price, but failing that...

The result is that there seems to be a fair amount of inventory that's available -- but that no one's in any hurry to get sold. That's my guess -- out of my ass, of course, and probably wrong. But it's the best explanation I've ever come up with.

HK306, you've nailed it, that's a very accurate description of the situation.
Apart from that, if you love the park it is absolutely beautiful to live there, perfect for families, a little quiet for singles (I live in the Lincoln Square Area now and enjoy it a lot, but then, I pay about 4 times/month in maintenance compared to what they charge in the PWV-buildings and my building doesn't even have ONE doorman.. (For me personally that's an advantage, though, I never quite understand the " understaffed" concerns)

I just wanted to add my perspective to this discussion. We bought a 2 br in 382 a while back and have been raising our family here. At the time we bought (in 2003) we found that we could get a lot more square footage in the building than in other, more desirable neighborhoods. Although the buildings are big and have a "project" look about them from the outside, I think the interiors are far superior to some of the new construction, with large bedrooms, walk-in closets, and plaster walls (not nearly as flimsy as some of the newer buildings). The bathrooms are tiny, but that's never been a huge issue for me. In the time since we've lived here the building infrastructure has been much improved -- newly built elevators (I rarely wait very long), new roof, new hallways and lobby (the balconies were re-done prior to our moving in). Also during that time we've lived thru the new construction, and Whole Foods, etc. has been a huge boon to our quality of life. Add to that the fact that we're so close to Central Park, we have a parking spot just outside our backdoor, we're close to the subway and to our child's school, not to mention the lovely view of the park from our balcony. You can't beat the low, low maintenance (although I will admit I wouldn't mind paying a bit more to have someone available in the lobby to help with the door when I'm loaded down). The gym is nice and the playroom is great, as is the shared playground. Our management office is always quick to respond to any problems. I also like that there's a nice mix of people in the building -- old, young, black, white, orthodox, pensioners and more well-off. No, the building will probably never appeal to people who'd prefer a fancy pre-war where they bring up your packages for you. But if you can get past your initial reaction to the outside of the building (which has really grown on me), this is a great place to live. I don't know how the prices of 1 brs and studios compare to other similar-sized apts in the neighborhood (or in more desirable neighborhoods), but I'm pretty sure the 2brs still offer pretty good value compared to similar sized apartments. Oh, and I wanted to add that in 8 years of living here I've never experienced a security issue. Before Whole Foods went in, I wasn't that comfortable walking north up Columbus after dark, but now it's an entirely different story. Plus, there is 24 hour security patrolling the parking lot. And to be honest, the projects north of 100th street seem to be quite a peaceful community. There's a police station on 100th between Columbus and Amsterdam, and a nice public library there, as well. We could definitely use more restaurants, but that's where Seamless Web comes in! Just my two cents. I wish we hadn't turned up our noses at the buildings back when we first considered buying in the late 90's!

The condo's complaint against the owners allegedly running 4AB as a hotel has been filed: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=x1VUpZE00ATUWmF2zUYeTw==&system=prod

See http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/34954-uws-couple-in-trouble-after-renting-out-condo

NWT: Is there a court verdict yet?

I had a similar problem with an upstairs neighbor. It was finally resolved when a short term renter came home drunk, stopped up the toilet, and left it overflowing for an extended period of time. They don't know how long the water was running because the only one home in this line was someone several floors down. That neighbor complained about a leak in the bathroom. It took quite a while to find the source of the "leak". When the super entered my apartment, he found water running out of the electric outlet in my bathroom and neighboring hallway. All the tiles fell off the walls. Bottom line: had to totally gut the bathroom and rebuild at a cost of 25K. Insurance, etc. covered this, but we couldn't use this bathroom for 2 months.

shitty construction + foreigners + absentee owners = ...

jelj13, it's been only three months. It'll take a long time.

E.g., our Sophie's case started last December, and they're only now wrapping it up, figuring out the costs: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/33956-you-can-now-go-to-jail-for-defying-board

The court calendars are crowded, and they're making do with less staff.

fieldchester: Construction was surprisingly good except for the bathrooms in a few apartments. They put sheet rock instead of water proof boards in the showers. Some owners had been complaining about wall tiles coming loose. Actually, my whole shower wall caved in. The Board checked the other complaints and found sheet rock in the few apartments with the tile problem. They came to the conclusion, from the pattern of apartments involved, that these were the last few apartments finished after the building inspectors came through.

We arranged for an inspection of the apartment and the building when we purchased since this was new construction. The report indicated that everything was done far better than the average new construction. It did point out some concerns with a few places on the outer brick work which did become a problem about 5 years after the building opened.