Anyone familiar with these 2 buildings....seems like really nice apartments ...are prices/mtce reasonable for area - seems like an inverse relationship between price and mtce...i prefer the midtown building since i can get at lower price but will mtce turn many off when i try to sell in the future? http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/16-park-avenue-new_york... [more]
Anyone familiar with these 2 buildings....seems like really nice apartments ...are prices/mtce reasonable for area - seems like an inverse relationship between price and mtce...i prefer the midtown building since i can get at lower price but will mtce turn many off when i try to sell in the future?
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/16-park-avenue-new_yorkhttp://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/chelsea-lane
Also, when signing on with a broker...if i give him/her an exclusive on my place in the village, do they eat the cost of marketing / advertising if they dont sell my apartment during 'said' time and i then go with another broker?
Thanks
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Response by cclistings
about 15 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Oct 2007
Hi JacksonHole - Yes, high-than-normal maintenance can certainly turn away prospective buyers of a property. The extreme case of this is a land lease building -- whereby the land itself is owned separately from the building, and part of the monthlies essentially to go rent the land from the land-owner. And that manifests itself in higher-than-normal maintenance -- and in extreme cases, excessively so. You will normally see prices more attractive when maintenance is high -- so yes there is an inverse relationship between price and carrying costs. It is important to think about how long you intend to own the new purchase -- many buyers of land lease / higher-than-normal maintenance properties fall in love with the amount of space for the price, and are less bothered by the monthlies. But it can make it harder (and sometimes meaningfully harder) to sell on the flip side.
Yes, the exclusive agent is generally responsible for all marketing costs / advertising costs -- as stipulated in the exclusive agreement -- and you owe him/her nothing if the apartment doesn't sell during the exclusive term. It is part of the cost of doing business for exclusive agents. There are a few other negotiation points on the exclusive agreement that are important -- happy to discuss with you if you'd like (am a fellow village resident of 11yrs and real estate professional).
Jordan Cooper
Partner
Cooper & Cooper Real Estate
Residential Sales & Rentals
C: 917-853-9468
E: jordan.cooper@coopercooper.com
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Response by kylewest
about 15 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
I'll be frank and blunt: high maintenance will kill you when you try to sell the place. Yes, it depresses the value substantively. The Park Ave building you reference above is on a very crowded, trafficked corner and the maintenance is insane. Realize that maintenance goes UP, virtually never down. In 5 years, that maintenance is going to be even higher if the building's fixed costs continue to escalate the way most building's operating expenses have done recently. You would have to go over the finances and statements with a fine tooth comb (well, you and a good real estate attorney) to see why the maintenance is so high, what upcoming capital expenses/projects there are, how well the building is maintained (are their maintenance nightmares looming--for instance what condition is the facade in?), and what the special assessment history is. Imagine paying that kind of maintenance AND being hit with a 2 year special assessment that adds a few hundred $$ more per month. Ouch.
The maintenance on the Chelsea Lane, on the other hand is below average. It is a nice building in a much better location if you ask me. I don't love the St. Xavier food pantry/soup kitchen/whatever homeless people or the hoards of school kids at the high school, but I could live with it for the Flatiron District, proximity to neighborhoods I like and tons of transportation options. I know some people like the stretch of Park Ave the other building is in, but personally...blech. Its about as vanilla and flavorless as neighborhoods come. Utterly uncool.
My view: pay more for better location.
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Response by ph41
about 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Kyle, easy to say "pay more for better location" - but you're talking about $200k-$250K more, for similar sized apartments, which is a huge difference when comparing the base prices on a percent basis. Sure, th higher maintenance will put some buyers off, but buyers may still be out there who cannot swing the higher initial purchase price.
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Response by JacksonHole
about 15 years ago
Posts: 113
Member since: Apr 2011
Thanks...i guess you either pay in price or mtce......the nice thing about the park ave building is its convenience to midtown and many corporate offices....seems like there are only 4 apts per floor and every one is a corner unit with windowed kitchens/baths......so i guess there are some pros to the park ave building...yet the low mtce and fun location of the chelsea building are desirable but the pricing seems high...so isnt it a wash in the end? At what point is mtce considered Above Average - anything above $2 per sq ft? I would venture to say average mtce in the city now is prob $1.50 per sq ft?
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Response by kylewest
about 15 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
ph41: correct. I meant in a general sense, I'd pay for location over space. These aren't obviously the only two buildings in NYC. If it were me, I'd look for what I could afford in a AAA or AA location.
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Response by ph41
about 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Kyle - While I understand that certain locations are considered "prime" a location considered AAA or AA by some may not be considered the same by others - after all, lifestyle, interests, leisure pursuits, desire for space, etc. etc. all play into location choice.
emember, Tribeca in the 90's was WAY too off the grid, services lacking, for most people (until the Wall Street crowd went "oh, guess what, I can walk to work, live in a "cool" neighborhood, and my cohorts living on the UES will find it acceptable"). So the people who pioneered there because they got a lot of space have been replace by people living in little spaces for lots of money.
that article never gets old. 400 man streetbrawl started with 2 ladies having words over some guy. the west side is no place for anyone with a decent job and family, that's for sure.
Hi JacksonHole - Yes, high-than-normal maintenance can certainly turn away prospective buyers of a property. The extreme case of this is a land lease building -- whereby the land itself is owned separately from the building, and part of the monthlies essentially to go rent the land from the land-owner. And that manifests itself in higher-than-normal maintenance -- and in extreme cases, excessively so. You will normally see prices more attractive when maintenance is high -- so yes there is an inverse relationship between price and carrying costs. It is important to think about how long you intend to own the new purchase -- many buyers of land lease / higher-than-normal maintenance properties fall in love with the amount of space for the price, and are less bothered by the monthlies. But it can make it harder (and sometimes meaningfully harder) to sell on the flip side.
Yes, the exclusive agent is generally responsible for all marketing costs / advertising costs -- as stipulated in the exclusive agreement -- and you owe him/her nothing if the apartment doesn't sell during the exclusive term. It is part of the cost of doing business for exclusive agents. There are a few other negotiation points on the exclusive agreement that are important -- happy to discuss with you if you'd like (am a fellow village resident of 11yrs and real estate professional).
Jordan Cooper
Partner
Cooper & Cooper Real Estate
Residential Sales & Rentals
C: 917-853-9468
E: jordan.cooper@coopercooper.com
I'll be frank and blunt: high maintenance will kill you when you try to sell the place. Yes, it depresses the value substantively. The Park Ave building you reference above is on a very crowded, trafficked corner and the maintenance is insane. Realize that maintenance goes UP, virtually never down. In 5 years, that maintenance is going to be even higher if the building's fixed costs continue to escalate the way most building's operating expenses have done recently. You would have to go over the finances and statements with a fine tooth comb (well, you and a good real estate attorney) to see why the maintenance is so high, what upcoming capital expenses/projects there are, how well the building is maintained (are their maintenance nightmares looming--for instance what condition is the facade in?), and what the special assessment history is. Imagine paying that kind of maintenance AND being hit with a 2 year special assessment that adds a few hundred $$ more per month. Ouch.
The maintenance on the Chelsea Lane, on the other hand is below average. It is a nice building in a much better location if you ask me. I don't love the St. Xavier food pantry/soup kitchen/whatever homeless people or the hoards of school kids at the high school, but I could live with it for the Flatiron District, proximity to neighborhoods I like and tons of transportation options. I know some people like the stretch of Park Ave the other building is in, but personally...blech. Its about as vanilla and flavorless as neighborhoods come. Utterly uncool.
My view: pay more for better location.
Kyle, easy to say "pay more for better location" - but you're talking about $200k-$250K more, for similar sized apartments, which is a huge difference when comparing the base prices on a percent basis. Sure, th higher maintenance will put some buyers off, but buyers may still be out there who cannot swing the higher initial purchase price.
Thanks...i guess you either pay in price or mtce......the nice thing about the park ave building is its convenience to midtown and many corporate offices....seems like there are only 4 apts per floor and every one is a corner unit with windowed kitchens/baths......so i guess there are some pros to the park ave building...yet the low mtce and fun location of the chelsea building are desirable but the pricing seems high...so isnt it a wash in the end? At what point is mtce considered Above Average - anything above $2 per sq ft? I would venture to say average mtce in the city now is prob $1.50 per sq ft?
ph41: correct. I meant in a general sense, I'd pay for location over space. These aren't obviously the only two buildings in NYC. If it were me, I'd look for what I could afford in a AAA or AA location.
Kyle - While I understand that certain locations are considered "prime" a location considered AAA or AA by some may not be considered the same by others - after all, lifestyle, interests, leisure pursuits, desire for space, etc. etc. all play into location choice.
emember, Tribeca in the 90's was WAY too off the grid, services lacking, for most people (until the Wall Street crowd went "oh, guess what, I can walk to work, live in a "cool" neighborhood, and my cohorts living on the UES will find it acceptable"). So the people who pioneered there because they got a lot of space have been replace by people living in little spaces for lots of money.
To each his own.
Or the impossibly genteel Upper West Side ... https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0Bxa36gOi94JQZTQ3M2FkNTgtYzM1Ny00ZjcwLWI5ODMtMDI1YjVjZjA4MjBm&hl=en_US&authkey=CJ2yo_cE
that article never gets old. 400 man streetbrawl started with 2 ladies having words over some guy. the west side is no place for anyone with a decent job and family, that's for sure.