Parc Vendome

The sponsor of the early-1980s condo conversion defaulted on its unsold units in 1992. They've bounced between a couple of different entities since then.

Looks as if the current owner of them all wants to unload and give up waiting on the tenants to move or pass on.

I'm an owner in the Vendome (not the 353 building) and I don't have my offering plan at hand, but since many of these are flagged as "investment apartments," and some say "tenant in place," I'd say they do indeed look like sponsor sales. The latest annual meeting included a discussion of a possible hallway renovation (which we've been talking about for nearly ten years) and an ongoing lawsuit against the building (ditto) but perhaps the sponsor feels like an assessment might be coming down the pike, and doesn't want to deal with it.

Me, I'm happy with my current tenant and I'm holding.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Forgot to mention Ali went to Harvard, is an author and has been and continues to be completely wrong on the direction of nyc re for the last 3 yrs (4?) I've been on SE.

If she ain't selling, I'd be selling. The sponsor barfs up a ton of units after the f
Greatest nyc re bubble deflates.....sponsor:
1) knows mkt will crater
2) letting others make some $$$$&
I'm sure the sponsor is a closet commie.

I would love to rent a big, cheap, estate condition/needs tlc apartment there.
There was a One that Got Away from about 2 years ago that I still think about.
A person can dream, right?

FLMAOzzzzz. Let me get this straight. You 'paid' $$$$$ to live next to people who flip burgers? And lives a better lifestyle paying $3k for 1800 sq ft 3 bdrm. FLMAOzzzzz. So your neighbor can go to Paris for the weekend why you play key Sherpa? Omfg. Who says there is no karma in this world. Flmaozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

It's like living next to the projects but you get to say good morning to them every singel moment you walk out the door! Sweetness.

When one of these tenants vacates, under current law the landlord can occupy the unit herself and de-stabilize the apartment, right?

Yes, PMG, but there's one entity that holds a number of Vendome apartments -- technically not the sponsor, but an entity that bought the sponsor-held apartments -- so technically the "holder of unsold shares" -- that has somewhere around 3 dozen apartments (again, I don't have the offering plan at hand) and probably doesn't want to move into any of them.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

ali - how do you feel about the building as an investment? i'm looking at a few buildings, the vendome and london terrace included, to purchase a 2 br as an investment property. your thoughts on management, future prospects, etc?

Very helpful, Ali. As a follow-up question, can a landlord destabilize a unit by having a niece or other distant family member occupy it? Obviously, there is always the renovation method to drive up the legal rent and get luxury decontrol (and that may be necessary with these units anyway), but can't those thresholds rise in the future?

e76 - I'd rather go off-board for that more detail -- feel free to write me at ali [at] dgneary [dot] com -- just put "streeteasy" in the subject line so I can find it.

PMG -- I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think so. I think the owner-occupancy decontrol loophole is for the landlord only.

As general background for anybody else reading this thread, realize that there were a lot of units retained by the sponsor when the Vendome converted, (I think around 80-100 at the time of the original conversion; it is, after all, a 600-unit building) and those numbers have dwindled steadily over time as those tenants have left and their apartments have gotten sold.

w67, the Vendome has a history (due to its elegance and location) of having been a fairly "artsy" building. My last really good rent-stabilized friend in the building was no burger-flipper, she was a long-retired press agent who used to tell me stories of having known Cyd Charisse and Walter Winchell.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

I JUST listed a fabulous 1,200 sq ft 1BR rental at Parc Vendome, 350 W 57 and thought YOU might be interested... -- http://www.elliman.com/new-york-city/manhattan/clinton-apartments/parc-vendome--350-west-57-street--unit-6b/350-west-57-street/nnswbwi

Are there survivor rights to these apts for the renters? The prices seem high for a negative carry investment.

Another reason why these apts probably MUST sell is that when a single owner owns more than 10% of the shares, it makes it more difficult to get a FNMA approved loan.

See above -- it's a big building. Even with their few dozen apartments, holder of unsold shares does not have 10% of them.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Newaccount: If they're rent-stabilized apts, they're subject to the rent succession laws.

http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/attygenguide.html#stabilization - this is not the link to the actual code which is on the DHCR website.

As for owner occupancy rights, they most likely do not apply to Parc Vendome under the conditions of the conversion plan.

I don't mean to divert this into a discussion of rent stabilization laws -- but it looks like some of those apartments have carrying costs (maintenance and taxes) higher than the rent. It looks like one apartment bleeds $350 per month -- I just don't understand how that can work.

Is there any recourse in that situation -- where the owner is literally losing money every month? Can they apply for some sort of hardship waiver and, if so...does anyone ever actually get one?

And if not... why would anyone pay $1 million for an apartment that may bleed money for 20 years? It seems insane. (And not just the normal "New York Real Estate Investor" insane -- actual, full-on, lock-you-up-and-call-Nurse-Ratched insane.) Anyone know how that's supposed to work?

You lose money every month, then make it up at the end when the tenant departs and you sell the place.

There're quite a few buildings, though, where the maintenance or CCs/taxes don't equal the rent. It runs the gamut.

If the holder of unsold shares wants to stop the drain, she can always turn the apartment over to the co-op or condo, and it'll take on the monthly loss until it can sell. That happened sometimes with leftover unsold apartments in the co-op boom of the 1980s.

The maid for cyd Charisse lived at parc vendome at one point? Why didnt you tell me?

Btw Larry ellisOn's boat painter was at our yacht club the other Sunday. Man you should have seen the commotion.

@ negative carry rent controlled...... Kinda like lotto. You gotta be negative carrying / in it to win it. so I guess the current sellers likes the odds even though they get a monthly health chk on all their 'tenant's'. You know the Fking amazing thing is, they can now cure stage 3 skin cancers. Ain't thy awesome. Heart pumps. Blood thinners. Alz rat brain transplants. Cataract surgery. Penile implants!!!!! Wishing your tenants dead, priceless.

Ali r u as impressed with yourself as with maids for famous ppl? No wonder youve got such an opinion of yourself. Can you smack 30yrs sitting across the 12 inch ikea desk you share. -ah that feels much better-

Obtw, heads up the nyc re mkt is tanking..... But you've been a re bull for so long, you probably didn't notice that some wranglers cut your nutz and sold them as rocky mountain oysters four years ago also. A little chewy, bit pretty good fried.

cut? 67, since I'm a skirt, that's a pretty good trick.

I would, though, smack 30_yrs for you if he were here.

ali r.

HK306 - I've read of cases where they allowed owners of an entire building to demolish the building w/ RS tenants because of economic hardship.

Currently, the owners of 429 East 64th and 430 East 65th streets (which are landmarked AND have RS tenants) are asking for permission to demolish.

Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/20110413/upper-east-side/tenants-battle-landlord-over-fate-of-landmarked-upper-east-side-buildings#ixzz1PYS2aMhP

To Ali, always enjoy reading you, oh yeah Re: Cut: That's why we don't unhide the hidden.

The building has not really increased in value over the years. Does anyone know why? Sheffield next door is selling for $$$.

"not really increased in value"? I bought ten years ago and haven't found this to be true... what time period are you looking at?

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

hi, what is the current status of the lawsuit?