99 john

I have heard some negative things about Rockrose's management style, but I am not sure if they are warranted or not, or whether problems renters have (see apartmentratings.com) would translate into sales/condo problems. (Specifically, I have heard their buildings are clean and well maintained, but that the management can be a little heavy handed at times.)

On a positive note, FiDi is a great place to buy if you are looking at (at least) a 3-5-7 timeframe. Prices per square foot are lower than other part of Manhattan, and things there should be booming in the next 3-5 years given all the commercial development. Opportunity for longer term appreciation is great. I would not expect any terrific appreciation over the next 12-18 months, though, given all the building and the potential for a general economic slowdown and uncertainty in the near term.

Also, I think it is already a nice neigborhood, with a couple of gourmet grocers, Gristedes and a lot of dry cleaners and drug stores nearby. 99 John is close to Fulton Street subway, a major transportation center. The neighborhood is quiet, which I find appealing. At the same time, the lower rents down there are attracting a younger crowd, which may lead to a younger vibe over time.

I would go for it, but negotiate!

Thanks will. Yes, the area seems fine, but I am curious about the low common charges / rather low taxes that they are charging. I know the taxes are abated a few more years. But are there any hidden costs?

The taxes will go up when the abatement ends. Also, since the building is now a rental, it only last for a relatively brief period of time.

Could be that the lower common charges may relate to the large number of units. One thing I'd keep an eye on is how quickly the building is planning to convert units. I heard something about a slower transition to condos. With fewer condos, could be charges may increase per unit. I am not sure exactly how that would work, but make sure you have a competent lawyer look closely at this during condo doc review if you decide to go ahead.

Just be careful about the stated square footage. Also, the potential of downtown also comes with the massive construction.

We bought years ago into a Rockrose development (a troubled one, no less). I think the early buyers might disagree with me, but we had a very positive experience. I think I am still seeing rental listings for 99 John, which would be consistent with what Will is saying. If they don't sell a certain percentage up front, financing could be difficult, resell could be close to impossible and you may be in a situation not much different than being a rental tenant, without a working condo structure.

Rented there for a year in 1999 when it was first built. I would never live in a Rockrose building again - rent or own. The building is great and the apartments are spacious. The neighborhood, at the time, well - no one lived down there but I've heard it's gotten better. Maybe Rockrose has improved but at the time I found them unresponsive, unhelpful and rude. I'm sure (hopeful) that they'll treat condo buyers better.

Could you please explain to me that when you say "If they don't sell a certain percentage up front, financing could be difficult, resell could be close to impossible". What will a development such as the one on 99 john need to finance? They already have the building there - so I am not sure I understand this point well. Thanks for your help.

It could mean that some lenders won't give loans if the building isn't x% sold.

Also, it could mean that you will have difficulty reselling the place if your buyer's lender won't give them a loan if the building isn't x% sold. Or in addition, the psychological effect of the building being y% rentals.

if you buy at 99 john, for your apt to close and the conversion to go throught they need to sell 15 % which in a buliding like 99 john, is roughly 65-70 apts. in the offering plan it states that there aim will be to sell 50 5 and keep 50 rental. but apparently that's normal now with offering plans.

What do people think of the asking prices of the so-called rennovated apts. @ 99 John St. and how do they compare to other condo buildings in the neigborhood?

offering price is crazy for thier cheap renovation

on top of that I heard a tenant today really upset and rightly so of how she and her family were treated by rockrose, they are a really bad managment group

Although the area will INEVITABLY and DEFINITELY come up in the next 5 years, largely due to the Federal monies coming dedicated to improving the area, I find this building somewhat mysterious.

The sale people won't even tell you if they're engagin in multi-phase sales, or how many units have sold. Our sales woman made a "slip" and insinuated that it was less than 20% sold, when she said "you can get anyone to finance, but you may want to use our mortgage guys because there aren't that many banks out there that would give you financing to purchase an apt in a bldgs with less than 20% sold." But I am not really what to make of this entire situation.

Believe me, the building itself is NICE, and the common areas are quite well-designed and well-appointed. The renovation on the units, while "neutral" and "boring," are still good deals for the price. If we were to purchase, though, we'd probably redo the bathroom ourselves, by removing the "hollywood" vanity and replacing the regular tub with a soaking tub.

Other developments in the area apppear to be selling a bit faster than this one. Does anyone have any sense of why 99 John may be selling a bit slower than others?

it's probably because it's larger than most of the bulidings in the area, we bought in the buliding and the sales office is some what intersting..i deal with brad and he has his days :) over all the staff is super super nice and the area in a few years will be great, specially after the WTC, fulton station and the new schools that will be build.

You bought in the bldg!? Wow, congrats. I saw the place and I really liked it--the bldg is super nice (especially given the $/sqft), I like the area, and the staff (with the exception of this brat called John the receptionist) have been really extremely lovely. Is Brat the Midwestern boy who doesn't appear to be "playing with the full deck?" Unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with him yet...

sfo, did you purchase a renovated unit or an "unfinished" one? What is your sense--if I were to purchase, which would be a better deal in the end? I am seriously thinking of buying a 1BR there.

Thanks, and please keep us posted on this bldg.

i bought an unrenovated apt, i think that's the better deal so you can have room to negigoate and also do it at your own time and taste. we also liked that the common charges are low, and the reserve fund is huge.

i think brad is the sales manager, he actually cracks me up :)

has any one heard the rent to buy that they are offering ? i like the buliding, its good for the price but there seems to be confusion whteher it's a rental or a condo. they have always had issues with students living there, is it still the case ?

So much inventory in this building and hardly a desirable property. How is it doing lately? Anyone have any knowledge how this is doing based on the current market environment?

Of course, the current financial situation won't help ANY building!

DrZiz, have you actually taken a tour of the bldg.? You say it's "hardly a desirably property," and I am genuinely interested in learning more about your perspective/impression.

I am seriously interested in purchasing (or it's more like I WAS seriously interested in purchasing until yesterday) in FiDi, and 99 John, to me, appeared to be among the best downtown bldgs, especially in terms of price/sf, financials, location, and the bldg quality/the finishes of the common areas (not so much the quality of the renovation in each apt). Sure, it's big, but you can say the same about many Manhattann bldgs...

I'd like to know if there are other "hot" properties in the $1,100/sf range plus reasonable CCs, in FiDi or anywhere else in Manhattan below 96th St.

sfo--thanks for the info. I had the same sense that it would be better to take a unit unrenovated because it is totally "refinished" and I can pick and choose what to renovate, how, and when...

buynyc... I was told that those young people in the bldg are Wall Street interns. With this said, NYU apparently leased a building few blocks down recently to house their undergrads, and not everyone may like that...

There are other nice bldgs in the area, but the prices at comparable bldgs are more in the $1,400/sf-and-up range plus much higher CCs. Is my perception incorrect!?

Hey nyc212,

Have you ever looked at the building at 150 Nassau Street? It faces out onto City Hall park, is fully occupied with low cc's and a 412(g) abatement. The building was completely redone in 2003 into a condo. The key thing is that there is LIGHT. There is nothing facing the building looking north. Also, there is easy access to the Brooklyn Bridge subway station.

nyc212--What else are you seeing in the neighborhood at $1,400 sf+? That seems like very high price in the Financial District, although I do agree that 99 John has comparatively low common charges.

There's resales on the market in buildings like 59 John and 71 Nassau that have somewhat fewer amenities but nicer apartments than 99 John, generally in the range of $1000 - $1100 psf. These have higher common charges than 99 John, due to their relatively small size (on the other hand, they both just started with their tax abatements whereas 99 John's has largely run its course, I think). Prices in 20 Pine vary a lot, but go as low as ~$900 psf, with reasonable common charges considering the amenities (if they ever get built). And then there's several lower-end buildings, all below $1000 psf, such as 90 William, 80 John, and 15 Broad.

Thanks for your quick replies, vikingal and jordyn. The information you've provided will help me tremendously!

In FiDi, I've been looking at 88 Greenwich, 75 Wall St., etc. where the prices are in the $1,400/range... While the Greenwich Club is considerably nice than 99 John, 75 Wall is pretty much similar to 99 John, I felt.

I also saw some units at 59 John, which wasn't as nice (or bright, if you can imagine that!) as 99 John... From what I understand, the projected CCs for the 1 BRs I saw at 59 John would end up in the $2,000 range, which was too high for my "taste."

jordyn, the units I saw at 20 Pine ranged more in the $1,300 range, so I will keep my eye open for a better deal. I will check 71 Nassau out.

Finally--While 150 Nassau sounds great, vikingal, nothing in my range (size-wise) appears to be available. They are either too big or too small...

Again, thanks for the info. I will check these bldgs out!

nyc212--Did you see 59 John or 45 John? 59 John is already completed; 45 John is still under construction.

75 Wall is definitely expensive, but I think quite a bit nicer than 99 John. 88 Greenwich should be well under $1400, unless you are looking at units on the top 4 or 5 floors. I looked at a 1BR with decent views and a decent terrace in 88 Greenwich, and it was only $1200 psf. Keep in mind they're also on the tail end of their tax abatement, though.

Honestly, though, now doesn't feel like a great time to be buying in most of these buildings. The larger buildings all have a ton of inventory available for rent at a significant discount to what you'd pay to live there. I'd probably go that route and wait for the projects under construction to be completed to see what effect that has (combined with ongoing other issues) on pricing before buying something. Put aside the money you save in the meantime to make yourself feel better on the small chance that prices do rise.

er, buy "significant discount to what you'd pay to live there" I meant "pay to BUY there".

Agreed.

When you can rent in these buildings for $2500, anythingover $1k a square foot starts looking pretty ridiculous.

we looked at 45, 59, 80 john, 90 william , district and 75 wall , 15 broad, adn 25 braod and in comparsion to space vs price, 99 john was the best price and common charges.

sfo--how much of a difference was there in pricing between the rennovated units and the non-rennovated ones? The rennovations really weren't anything special and I'd probably want to re-do parts of it were I to buy there.

i think you can get 7-10 % less. it depends on whether you can negoitate also the closing costs. I think these days you can ask for a little bit more.

There is always a lot of noise coming from this building. Is there a terrace bar there?

Does anyone know what's going on with the sales effort here? With banks being reluctant to finance new conversions w/ less than "X%" sold, is 99 John doing alright? Have they started to slash prices?

Offer 20% off- I know they are making deals.

Their website no longer allows visitors to check "availability" of the units--you will now be taken to a page where they ask you to register your contact info. Does this mean they aren't selling well--or perhaps they are slashing prices?

The Streeteasy listing has never been accurate for this development (i.e., they have 400 units for sale but most aren't even listed here, and no sales have been recorded)...

Any input would be appreciated... Thanks!

I heard they are renting again.

they are offering rent to buy, i tink your first 6 months rent go towards your downpayment

nyc212..acris list 70 sales so far and they are usually behind, i heard 100 or so

hello all - i'm likely going to look at this building sometime over the next few days. low ppsf and cc are appealing. for people who currently live there, can you give me some opinions on quality of building life? i've read some negative things about noisy neighbors in another thread.

i'm not interested in opinions about the neighborhood (especially from people who don't live in it). i know the pros and cons of the location pretty well.

thanks!

It is a frat-house turned rental turned condo with fairly low-end finishes. If you don't have an issue with the make-up of the owners/tenants in the building or the low-end finishes, then maybe a good deal given the relatively low price. Personally, I wouldn't live there for the aforementioned reasons, but that doesn't mean it isn't right for some people.

Reminds me of an episode of Frasier - "Games with balls and domestic beers are fine for other people, just not for me..."

110% Buy back guarantee.....

Just so you know...
http://curbed.com/archives/2009/08/18/unseen_new_neighbor_for_99_john_rising_in_fidi.php#more

I went to look at quite a few apts in that building--its definitley appealing from a psf point of view, but I think its transient and finishes are not great. Also they renovate as they sell the apts so it will be under construction in some form or another forever

thanks for all the comments. i'd plan to do my own upgrades and am less concerned about the low-quality finishes (assuming this all makes financial sense) than i am other quality of life concerns such inter-unit noise and overall standards for behavior of the tenants. frat-party grade neighbors definitely do not appeal.

i'll keep this all in mind as i look. i'm being hooked up with a professional guy who owns, lives and works from home in the building. that should be illuminating.

I wouldn't say that Dacor appliances are low end in the kitchen. In fact they rate right up there with the best. The windows are new and work well. The wood floors aren't bad as long as you have them fix any loose boards. The counter tops and matching kitchen floor mid range. The building , for what they are asking is the best deal you'll find. I purchased a one bedroom for my daughter and she loves it. Friendly door men , safe building......great roof top , always clean and the employee's have been very helpful. How can you go wrong with a 110% buyback ? and a tax deduction? I've been there about 20 times in the past few months and I haven't heard the noise they write about. There is movement of people but that's what NYC is all about.

should I go in with a broker or not to get the best deal?

I am going to see these today with the sales office. Any units I should stear clear of?

gqbut: I thought you were buying 20 Pine AND 88 Greenwich. What are you playing at Mr. Broker? Time to change your screen name I think.

Anyone know if they are still offering rent to own?

??

Prive, I think it was a limited-time offer designed to boost the % sold figure.

Also, ginter, sure, Dacor is nice, but the real problem is that most units I saw just had generic white GE appliances, not Dacor. This, combined with the CHEAPEST materials and fixtues on the market, makes their kitchens undesirable.

I don't remember which appliances they used in the other units we looked at. What fixtures? The bathroom fixture's were toward the upper end as well as the tile used on the floors and in the shower. This is now 6 weeks since my original post. All is well except my daughter had mentioned that they stopped serving free breakfast in the lobby. They did , however , install a new doorman to unit phone system to anounce guests. NYC212 , the price per sq ft is still among the best in the area. Anyone know why the took down the large cloth sign out front ???

Does anyone know if there are power supply problems in the building? The apartments are wired to handle a total of 40 amps - this is mentioned in the offering plan and was luckily caught by our Attorney. The recommended level to power an apartment is 100 amps. All other new buildings/conversions in the city have at least 100amps.

hi termoli1 - did you ever find out if there were any power problems in the building? I'm considering buying as well and would be a bit concerned about this item.

I am looking at this bldg & other higher end ones in the area. I'm a bit worried about the frat house type of atmosphere here. Any tenant have any comments on this? Are there lots of parties, etc?

Hey Steen, I live at 99 John and it isnt a frat house atmosphere at all. Its more of a 25-40 range of residents mostly wall street types. If you want to see units there my broker was a great help, shes right across the street from 99 John, NY Living Solutions. Berna Hakimi 917-577-8549. Good luck! If you have specific questions let me know as I know this building fairly well.

Thanks, Jah. Not interested in working with a broker for now, but appreciate the comments. Anything negative about the building? Any other buildings in the area you like?

Nothing really that negative about the building. I use the residents lounge on the 4th floor often shooting pool, and they just re-did the roof and it looks great. Im not even an owner, Im a renter, which could be a very big negative if your looking to buy.

jahanh - how do you feel about transportation in the area? for instance, how accessible is the R for you? And how would you describe the area after 9pm? I've heard it gets really deserted..

I'm familiar with the location of this building, as I used to visit friends frequently.

I've always been a fan of the Financial District, but then again I'm young(ish) (shut up Alan) and single. The neighborhood doesn't feel like a real "neighborhood" at all -- it feels very cold and corporate -- as it should since you're in the FINANCIAL DISTRICT. If you're an outgoing person, of course, you're bound to bond with fellow building dwellers, at the very least, or get to know other people who live in the area. But the area doesn't feel very neighborhoody, and it also lacks many neighborhood amenities (choice of grocery stores, delis, etc.). At night things get REAL quiet, and it can often feel downright spooky if you're getting home after midnight.

As for transportation, you're just a few blocks away from nearly every train line in the city, but I would shoot myself if that whole Fulton Street mess were my local subway stop.

For the right person, it's a fabulous locale.

Any current news on this building? Anyone who has purchased there with any horror stories? I'm considering purchasing and going to check out a couple of the units tomorrow. This one in particular caught my eye. http://www.nestseekers.com/25825/99-john-street-deco-lofts-wallstseaportbatterypark-manhattan-2

Sorry for the long delay in response but for Mowgs - I take the R train everyday to work, I usually take the A-C line to W4 and transfer, door to door 22 minutes, to 49th and 6th. Building is great, they just re-did the roof and it looks amazing. Neighborhood is quiet, but I kinda like that as i lived at Herald Towers, probably the busiest block in the city. This particular building has a great grocery store, Jubilee right downstairs, and the other corner of the building is Duan Reade. The doormen are very nice! I used a broker from right across the street very helpful, as I have mentioned before, New York Living Solutions, Berna Hakimi. Now the negatives, it is very quiet at night. John street itself is a horror to drive on, they need to repave it. Noise from construction on the street below which has been ongoing for a couple of months, even living on the 20th floor. But if you close the window it cancels a lot of it out. Cant think of anything major though as I do enjoy it. Being in Financial Dist, might be a pain for friends to visit but hey every train goes there for their convenience..lol Let me know if anyone has any specific questions...

youre not still single, are you, matt?

Anyone bought in this building recently? How do you like living there?

I rented here and loved it! Great staff and very attentive if you need help with anything. Great roof too with plenty of seats. If I had the money, I would've bought!
Very convenient with the 24 hour grocery right downstairs. Lower floors can be kind of dark/loud depending on where you face.

Any other opinions about the building recently? Does it still have that "frat-house" atmosphere for those that live there? When we visited and got a tour of the amenities, I didn't get that vibe at all. There were a few 30 something's hanging in the lounge chatting and one or two middle-aged females in the gym...that was it. And although the finishings were definitely not luxury grade, they were not bad by any means. Stainless steel Electrolux appliances, Caesarstone countertops, Grohe fixtures in the kitchen made it appear quite high end. However, the bathroom was a disappointment and it appeared the tub wasn't even changed out in the unit we looked at. But all in all, not bad for the price. New opinions?

Also, does it get noisy in the lounge and do they adhere to the closing time of 11PM? I was looking at a unit on the 4th floor (where the lounge is). Thanks

Great building!! I'm recommending it to all my buyers.Fast closing and easy process. Good investment and also very attractive option to rent.