Help !!!!

Quite hard to make decorating choices on an apartment I can't see, but off-the-cuff I'd say either tile or wood for the kitchen floor is fine; cheapest kitchen counter is probably a slab of Carerra marble. If you want to spend more, a Caesarstone would be nice and continues your eco-theme.

Bathroom tile should be white, possibly with an accent color; good old 4 by 4s or running subway tile are probably both really safe choices.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Where I would choose wood for my own kitchen floor, I think for a rental, tile would hold up to wear and tear far better. I totally agree with Carerra for the kitchen and 4 by 4s for the bath. I hope it works out for you.

4x4 screams "GETTO".

LOL excuse me ... GHETTO.

It's very hard to go wrong with subway tile for both a kitchen backsplash and bathroom tile.

I love carerra marble for counters and its more expensive statuary cousin, but it may not be the wisest choice for a rental - it can stain and etch, and renters are unlikely to care enough to treat it gently, wipe up spills quickly, always use a cutting board, avoid lemon etc.

I think granite is a better choice in a rental; just don't choose a busy color, nothing too flecky - keep it simple. I like slate colored tiles for the kitchen floors, especially with dark granite counters. I agree about subway tiles for backsplash and bathroom walls, penny tiles for the bathroom floor.

Do NOT do marble for the counter tops. It will stain like crazy. Use a granite (darker is best) or a quartz (manmade) stone for durability. I like the mini porcelain subway mosaic tiles from Home Depot for a backsplash (we chose that for our kitchen redo and it looks gorgeous)--they're inexpensive and relatively easy to install. Very classic looking, but less 'boring' and expected than the standard-sized subways.

I'd do a 12" x 12" neutral-colored porcelain tile for the kitch floor--Nemo has some nice ones as does Parma Tile in Astoria (where we ultimately got ours). Use an off-white or light gray grout so stains won't be as noticeable.

Also keep in mind that granite stains--lighter colors are not recommended for a rental, where your tenant will not likely care as much about preservation as an owner would. If you really want light colored stone, you really should go with the manmade stuff (Caeserstone, Quartzmaster, Okite and the like). They will not require the maintenance that granite or other natural stone requires to stay fresh looking.

Gigi,

Would you like me to take a look at it and help you with any decisions you may need. I am a contractor but have worked with many different designers and architects. You can email me at primerenovations@mac.com. I am not looking to do the project as it is too small for me but I will guide you in the right direction

My work. www.primerenovationsnyc.com

Surprised that no one has pointed out that this person sounds utterly desperate, and that the desperation will likely lead to a lower overall return on the apartment by making poor choices when fixing up the place.

Steady tenant for 13 years, but when the tenant vacates, you can't afford extra months to do it right?

1 - Sell
2 - Get a mortgage and use the proceeds for renovation
3 - Realize you aren't going to be renting so quick anyway unless you underprice

No one wants to live in a shitty apartment in Lincoln Center. People pay premiums for the area. So when they see your crap, you'll lose out. Not only will you command a lower monthly rent, but more likely you'll have a place sitting there empty for extra months.

Hi everyone, thank you SO much for your kind feedback.

1. Kitchen: Am I the only one that thought that Carrera would look odd with Maple? They aren't traditional Maple, they are slab door and very plain with polished nickel pulls.I agree Carerra is tough for a rental. I thought of making the bathrooms Carerra and decided against it for the durability/staining reason. But I have to go high end. If i was going to do granite it would DEF be one of the much less "busy" granite's, but I did want to go with something lighter, cream for the contrast with the Maple to make it POP. If Caesartstone is the smarter choice when going light, then I guess I should look more closely at that.

2. This apartment is in a High End Luxury building (post war) and I'm afraid that something simple (yet timeless and lovely) like white subway tile/white 4 x 4's wouldn't be appropriate for the type of unit it is. Comparable units rent for 8,9,10K. So I was thinking a high end Porcelain or Limestone for the bathrooms, but what color and size and trim I could not figure out for the life of me. I wish NEMO showed ALL their products online, they show almost nothing :(

3. I've been looking at apts with Galley kitchens that take the wood flooring all the way through and it does look nice and maintains the flow, I've always been a tiled kitchen person, especially for durability, but eliminating another design component is tempting. On the other hand, I think one good spill by a tenant and the wood could be ruined.

I like the idea of sticking with an Eco theme (though I don't think our potential tenants will care much). Reading this board, there is so much criticism of granite, travertine, marble.... I just want to play it safe but still go high quality. If I could afford to hire someone just to pick the kitchen and bathroom tile I would love to pass that off, but I don't even have a budget for that! Trying to put every $$$$ into the actual finishes instead not to mention updating plumbing (so expensive!)

Primer, though I would LOVE to know your thoughts of the unit, I have already hired my contractors/sub contractors so there's not much left to do on that score. The only thing I didn't hire is a designer, which I normally do myself. Just much harder to do long distance than I anticipated. I may be in over my head, but something had to give with budget, and G.C.'s were all out of my range, so I've had to do things the hard way. If I get this done and don't muck it up it will be a miracle. The apartment is truly gorgeous and I just want to make sure I do her justice:)

And yes, I'm GIGI (my name) but somehow logged in as my old screenname, so sorry for any confusion, same person!

Lots of different opinions here, and i agree with some and disagree with others. As a guide, i would stay away from "i used it and it looks great" since those opinions are obviously biased and personal (vs neutral and unobjectionable which is what you're looking for in a rental).

Since it looks like you're willing to spend the money, i would go with ceasarstone for the countertops. It will be more durable than marble, where you're just asking to replace it after the first tenant moves out. For kitchen floors, tile is probably your best option, as there is more likely to be floods/spills in the kitchen than elsewhere (i personally prefer wood in the kitchen, but not for a rental).

Finally for the bathroom, please please please avoid 4x4. It just screams dated and cheap. Go with simple white subway tile, which is cheap, timeless, and simple. Just note that white tile & grout stain/mildew quickly so it may start to look old and used fairly quickly. You may need a regrout/grout bleaching after the first tenant moves out.

If you're shopping, avoid anything that "catches your eye"... its likely to be a trend and will look dated soon, or is likely to be a polarizing choice where some ppl will love it and some ppl will hate it. Go for neutral.

Good luck!

Whatever you do, I'd really steer clear of the travertine/limestone look in the bathrooms. It's really gotten very dated. I see nothing wrong with simple white porcelain with white counters (cesarstone or the like). It's timeless and tends to have broad appeal.

If you are looking for a good man-made stone for the kitchen counters, I would highly recommend checking out a product by Quartzmaster (it's new so I'm not certain of the exact name)--they have it at American Stone Collection in Bayonne (which is also a Quartzmaster distributor). It has a gorgeous creamy white background with grayish striations throughout. They had a few slabs of it when I was last there--ask for Antonio, who is extremely helpful and knowledgeable. If you need a fabricator, we very much like Stoneage, which is located nearby.

I'd stick with Formica for the kitchen counters.

Angel,

Most of Nemo tile's Porcelain is from Crossville http://www.crossvilleinc.com

I would go to Nemo as it is always better to see it in person.

Keep it Simple
There are many durable as well as attractive kitchen and bathroom flooring options available today. Porcelain is great if you can put your hands on it within the time frame you need to complete the project. Is the building Pre-war? What style is the building and in what neighborhood? Who is likely to rent the apartment? Finishing for an apartment in Chelsea at 22nd and 8th Avenue should be different than a rental apartment on the UES at 86th and York. Consider your likely rental client the rental price you're targeting and and allow that to guide you in determining your budget. Try to find a contractor that has good taste; there are still craftsman out there with the eye of an artist. I agree the subway tiles are quite timeless and will still be timeless in twenty years. TRY Porcelanosa for kitchen and bath floors. Countertops: Caesar stone or honed granite. Think about how it will look / hold up / work in ten to fifteen years.

I've been a landlady for a decade. My current tenant is doing fine with Carrera because she is an adult, and knows not to set a bottle of olive oil on the counter without a coaster.

If, however, you think you can't trust your tenants with marble countertops, then you can't trust them with limestone in the bathroom or wood floors in the kitchen either.

Ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Ha! All very very good points!

Thank you for your feedback:)

Ali--all it takes is one sloppy guest. My husband and I are neatnicks but we still chose not to use marble--even though we love the look--because I didn't want to be pacing around with a wet rag every time we have a party or feel compelled to watch like a hawk every glass of red wine, every cut lemon, every glop of ketchup.

For tenant use I would absolutely NEVER choose marble. Your tenant is the exception--believe me. I've had 'good' tenants too but they simply never care for things to my standards.

"Ali--all it takes is one sloppy guest. My husband and I are neatnicks but we still chose not to use marble--even though we love the look--because I didn't want to be pacing around with a wet rag every time we have a party or feel compelled to watch like a hawk every glass of red wine, every cut lemon, every glop of ketchup."

A friend of mine in Greenwich had a giant housewarming party after his big renovation. He was able to enjoy perfectly spotless white marble countertops for exactly ONE week. All it took was ONE party and now he's living with four red wine rings from careless guests. Sad.

****

"For tenant use I would absolutely NEVER choose marble. Your tenant is the exception--believe me. I've had 'good' tenants too but they simply never care for things to my standards."

One word: FORMICA.

Ph41 had this tip which I've used more than a few times. Mix baking soda and water into a paste to get rid of stains on carrera. I would not recommend this marble for a tenant apt. Though I know mr. Brownstoner has it in his rental.

Baking soda_water is rather miraculous. I use it on my whatever -Corian?- counter that was, alas, white. I'll cover the staines area, smoosh it around gently,put a damp dishtowl ower the paste then let it sit overnight.
VIOLA.
Oh yeah -I'll often put some lemon juice in the mix as well but dunno if that is ok for marble.
let us know how you do?

GiGi, what is the rent, btw?

The rent is 9K and it is a 1400 sq ft 2 bed.2.5 bath. I think I'm in desperate need of an Interior Designer at this point. I just feel silly hiring one to only pick tile and counters. But that's literally all I need. If I could time travel from Hong Kong to Manhattan and back this wouldn't be such a dilemma!

Really FP- I am an adult and I would never think I need to set my bottles of oil or anything else on a counter with a coaster. I cook all the time and would never want to think about where I'm setting anything down in the kitchen. Honestly I had no idea I would need to do this. I know to use a coaster on wooden table but that's about it. I also don't think this has anything to do with being an adult. I know nothing about these things. I think I have granite now and my bottles go right on the counter. Guess I'm out of style and lucky.

>Helen - you don't need a wet dishtowel - a piece of saran wrap over the baking soda mixture works very well.

>>One word: FORMICA.<<

Until someone puts a hot pan down on it and sears a lovely brown stain into the surface.

>>Oh yeah -I'll often put some lemon juice in the mix as well but dunno if that is ok for marble.
let us know how you do? <<

NO NO NO!! Lemon juice will etch the marble. Bad!!

It's only with marble you need to take those kind of precautions, ccc. That's *why* granite is so superior as a kitchen stone -- you can drip oil on it, no problem, you can put a hot pot on it, no problem. (Also, it's fairly inexpensive, as these things go).

However, in the marketplace, people are getting tired of it, which is why you're seeing the switch to other materials that don't perform as well.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

">>One word: FORMICA.<<

Until someone puts a hot pan down on it and sears a lovely brown stain into the surface."

You know, MILLIONS of Americans for half a century managed to cook billions of meals without ever having to set a hot pan down on their Formica countertops.

Do you know why?

They knew they weren't supposed to. Just like they knew they weren't supposed to set hot casserole dishes straight from the oven directly onto their polished oak Baker dining tables.

***DUH***

http://www.newenglandstone.com/residential/homes/waterfront-home-uses-glass-for-kitchen-countertops

Glasso, which is crystalized glass is as durable as granite and has zero absorption which is not only slob-proof, but the most bacteria free of all. This is going to be my next countertop.

Go into any older formica'd kitchen and you will see telltale signs of singed surfaces. It happens. Thing is, people used to just live with it--peeling, discolored countertops were just a part of life. Now there are better options.

Go with caesarstone. It performs better than granite since you don't need to seal it like granite. Why don't you just hire a designer by the hour? It would probably give you greater peace of mind than trying to do this from HK.

thanks, ph41 !
Mostly I cover it so as not to accidentally wipe it up or put something on it. saran Wrap = MUCH better idea.

"Go into any older formica'd kitchen and you will see telltale signs of singed surfaces. It happens. Thing is, people used to just live with it--peeling, discolored countertops were just a part of life. "

Not in the kitchens of people who knew how to use trivets.

My mother's Formica countertop looks brand new. Installed in 1983.
My GRANDMOTHER'S Formica countertop also looks brand new. Installed in 1963.

I love the fact that Matt gets all passionate about Formica

Well FP I find that so silly. They'll all go back to practical materials in the end and if I were a landlord I would just buy the granite or any other material which would last the longest. My apt has marble floors in the bathroom and they look hideous already. Stains everywhere. I will try the baking soda on them and see if I can get some of the stains out. I had no idea why they kept getting worse since we rarely wear shoes in there. It is used by 3 people though on a daily basis. Add the guest in and you get ugly white marble.

Matt - Let's assume that at least one of the renters does not use a trivet...now what? Replace the countertops again? Since this is a rental, OP should go with the most durable, easiest to maintain material. That would be caesarstone/silestone or one of the other quartz countertops. Also, most people do not have your appreciation of formica. I was apartment hunting with a friend recently. We saw a newly renovated apartment with a formica countertop. We both thought - ugh, what a waste...have to factor in the cost of replacing that.

Gigi, I don't know how you expect to get this done from Hong Kong without someone on the ground in NYC. It seems that you certainly need somebody, not only to point & watch that things are being done properly, but also somebody to aid you in the decision process. Do you know the super? Perhaps s/he knows what the other units have installed & would be able & willing to oversee the project?

>cccharley - also try the powder oxiclean mixed with water - might work even better on white marble than the baking soda. Cover with saranwrap so it stays wet longer.

Charley--how often do you have to reseal your marble floors in the bath for them to stay white and clean looking?

I'm a renter - reseal?? Never and I certainly wasn't told by the landlord to reseal floors in the bathroom.

"Matt - Let's assume that at least one of the renters does not use a trivet...now what? Replace the countertops again? Since this is a rental, OP should go with the most durable, easiest to maintain material."

Hmm.

And what did they use for countertops in rentals from 1945 - 1990, when granite came into vogue?

FORMICA.

Matt, the bottom line is--formica is just so darn ugly. Sure it was all the rage in our parents' and grandparents' time. But so were linoleum floors, pea-green shag wall-to-wall and naugahyde barcaloungers. Times change. No one wants formica anymore.

@Drdrdr I have (of course!) hired someone who has met with vendors to obtain estimates and stays on top of the work being done, however she is a project manager and not an interior designer, so she is more my eyes and ears on the ground but she can't pick tile. The vendor doing the vast portion of the renovations is our building's preferred vendor so they do all of the sponsor units and I have photo's of those units which have white kitchen cabinets, black granite counters, black granite flooring and what looks like polished travertine bathrooms with white vanities.If our cabinets were white this would be SO much easier! The tenant updated the kitchen to her own taste and chose the maple. They look brand new and are in perfect condition so I can't justify the cost of changing them out to my dad (the owner).

I personally loathe Formica, and it would deter me from renting an apartment. I think that Granite can look lovely, especially less common ones. I also like Caesarstone/Quartzstone/Silestone. It will likely come down to budget once I've completed the bathrooms. Nemo and Bella tile said that they need at least 10 days for most of the tile choices I liked, so they are out. It looks like I'm going to be ordering from TheTileShop.com. I know I'm being overly picky about this instead of just making a practical decision. Grrrrrrrrr lol

I never considered not putting olive oil bottle on counter whether marble, granite or whatever..

"Matt, the bottom line is--formica is just so darn ugly. Sure it was all the rage in our parents' and grandparents' time. But so were linoleum floors, pea-green shag wall-to-wall and naugahyde barcaloungers. Times change. No one wants formica anymore."

Your opinion.

And no doubt the opinion of many others.

But don't hide your aesthetic preferences behind a practicality that doesn't exist. Granite and marble are HIGH MAINTENANCE compared to Formica.

I have marble floors in the bath and black marble floors in the kitchen...horrible. I would rather have linoleum because it's easier to clean.

Julia; for the black marble floor and white one too, try some ammonia in warm water. It doesn't leave a film.

bill..i'll try it, thanks. black marble has been a pain since i have a cat.

If you have a black cat that will be fine in the kitchen, keep it out of the bathroom.

NYCMATT,

Living in a trailer is less maintenance then living in a big home but that doesn't mean the trailer is better. I have not installed a formica countertop in 15 years and there is a reason for it

>>But don't hide your aesthetic preferences behind a practicality that doesn't exist. Granite and marble are HIGH MAINTENANCE compared to Formica. <<

Not necessarily. We had white formica in our rental which when we first moved in was peeling, stained and generally ratty looking. We convinced the landlord to replace it. For the five years we lived there we were super careful with it--and it definitely WAS high maintenance.

I had to create special bleach pastes to remove the occasional red wine stain or errant glop of tomato sauce. Even with careful cleaning and tender loving care the stuff began to get a bit dingy looking as time went on.

I never wanted to put anything hot anywhere near the formica (even on top of a trivet) for fear of damaging the surface.

Thanks, but no. I'd far rather put my time and energy into caring for something that actually rewards me by looking attractive instead of resembling a large piece of leftover airplane fuselage.