Harlem shootings, is it getting worse?

ok, and this is another one during the last week. They seem to me to be happening with more frequency and at times that I would have consider "safer". Wonder whether this is happening across NYC or just Harlem.

HARLEM (WABC) -- Gunfire wounded a man on a subway train in Harlem this afternoon.

The gunfire erupted on an A train at the 125 Street station just after 12:30 p.m.
One man was shot in the back. He was taken to Harlem Hospital in unknown condition.

The motive for the suspect is not known.
No word of any arrests.
A, B, C & D subway trains are bypassing the 125th Street Station.
Because of the police activity, Uptown A, B, C & D subway trains are bypassing the 125 Street station. Uptown A & D subway trains are running local from 59 Street to 145 Street.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8461345

i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that overall crime stats will be up this year over last. it seems as if i can recall many more instances of violent crime. it's sad to watch.

for us what's becoming worrisome is that the typical "just use some common sense" to avoid gun violence doesn't apply at all with these last cases. it's not about avoiding the playground after 4pm anymore.

it's been at broad day light and in busy intersections, even in subway stops. how can you avoid that?

>i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that overall crime stats will be up this year over last. it seems as if i can recall many more instances of violent crime. it's sad to watch.

This is nothing.

>it's been at broad day light and in busy intersections, even in subway stops. how can you avoid that?

You can lock yourself indoors and stay away from the windows.
Have fun

> You can lock yourself indoors and stay away from the windows.

even if nobody i know gets shot, it's f*cking depressing to me. tough to have fun while i hear the shootings. nice to know you can!

I'm not hearing any shootings.

Harlem still has sections that are problematic. Lenox in the 130's and 140's is an area that has a higher concentration of "crews"- which is likely the source of the shootings (128th is close enough). For that very reason, I have advised a couple of friends to steer clear of buying into that section of Harlem in the last few years- there was a very good reason why the apartments were so cheap. The shooting on the A train @ 125th street I can't make any educated statements on.

@huntersburg - if i'm understanding what you meant by "nothing": anecdotal evidence isn't substance enough for me to make statistical claims, however i wouldn't say it's not worth consideration.

however, if by "this is nothing" you meant "the worst is yet ahead," i can't say i disagree with you.

The worst may be ahead, but the worst that has happened so far is way behind us.

Harlem was hyped by hippies, yuppies, and flippers. In fact, it'll never improve as a whole.

Because of the stupid jurisdiction system of NYC, the harlem housing bubble is holding up extremely well all these years. But it will burst eventually, same as other part of the country.

Notadmin: The 125th st station shooting was a cop shooting a suspect (still worrying). There have been 5 murders in the 28th precinct this year. Full stats are here http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs028pct.pdf
The daylight shooting in Morningside park last summer had the whole neighborhood aroused. Its a tough situation. We are staying but I understand the fear. I grew up in the city and worked in Harlem 40 years ago (when it was really bad). However just because crime is way down since then doesn't make one oblivious to a shooting on what you correctly described as a very busy intersection.

"Harlem was hyped by hippies, yuppies, and flippers. In fact, it'll never improve as a whole."

Its VISIBLY and obviously nicer than it was ten years ago. FAR better than 20 years ago. To say otherwise is to just ignore reality. I mean crime stats, quality of housing stock, clean streets, socio-economic and racial diversity, etc.

However, is it (or the City) getting worse versus say a year ago in terms of violent crime? Maybe. There are a few stories that suggest such. I don't see a meta-examination of the stats. But its possible.

notadmin, why do you start "gain consensus" threads that have an agenda? You clearly want to make a point that there are more shootings in Harlem. You do know you can simply start a thread stating that, don't you?
You remind me of when I did a rotation in the ER and the patients who came in wanting Valium and kept making us do tests to rule out heart attack and other dreadful occurrences. In reality they could have walked in and said: Jesus, I'm anxious and had the same outcome. So why don't you tell us what you really want? Advice on whether to move out? Agreement that there are more shootings?

I have not seen any gun play in harlem. On the contrary, people seems very nice.

I was in brooklyn this weekend. There was def a sense that people were packing - BK is going back to the stone age. If you don't watch out, you could get clubbed in the head and dragged back to someone's cave.

> You do know you can simply start a thread stating that, don't you?

uf, where do i start? have you taken any math / stats course? does sample bias sound familiar to you? i can explain it to you: your experience is a small sample of what's happening in reality, hence increasing the sample reduces the sample error.

> You remind me of when I did a rotation in the ER and the patients who came in wanting Valium and kept making us do tests to rule out heart attack and other dreadful occurrences. In reality they could have walked in and said: Jesus, I'm anxious and had the same outcome

you remind me of... sample bias again. lol

one of the things i notice is that the knee-jerk reaction is to demand increase police presence. it's an area big enough for it not to be feasible. how many cops would be enough?

btw, kind of related, just by chance, gun violence on the side of the "solution". a kind of young but already retired cop shooting his wife over pretty much nothing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2072857/Clarence-Cash-killed-wife-money-woes-buying-Louis-Vuitton-handbag.html

Notadmin - you should consider an overpriced LV bag for your wife. If the stress gets to you...

It feels so......
.
.
.
.
.
.
Nostalgic

> Notadmin - you should consider an overpriced LV bag for your wife. If the stress gets to you...

Sure! hope i remember next time i go to chinatown :-)

>Its VISIBLY and obviously nicer than it was ten years ago. FAR better than 20 years ago. To say otherwise is to just ignore reality. I mean crime stats, quality of housing stock, clean streets, socio-economic and racial diversity, etc.

Is Jason saying that racial diversity is important for making Harlem "VISIBLY and obviously nicer"?

Sounds like the most racist thing we've seen posted on streeteasy in a long time.

notadmin, you're so not clever. anyway, you're clearly afraid of Harlem. so, move. it's rather silly to live where you're not comfortable.

"it's been at broad day light and in busy intersections, even in subway stops. how can you avoid that?"

How about using a little common sense and AVOID HARLEM???

Hello!!!! It's still HARLEM!!!

> notadmin, you're so not clever.

lol, but clearly brilliant when compared to you nurse!

notadmin, what do your neighbors say? it may be more reassuring to you and maybe even productive to the neighborhood to keep in touch and discuss this with a group of "new" arrivals. they'll get your concerns and share theirs and their plans. you should probably avoid talking about this with the old timers who just say stuff like, oh, that's nothing you haven't even seen bad. that will just freak you out more.

"How about using a little common sense and AVOID HARLEM???"

Kind of hard when one of the above shootings was ON THE SUBWAY TRAIN at 125th street, which you yourself have to ride past every day to/from Washington Heights.

nurse? sigh. you're new here? but don't knock nurses. they're incredible.

I take the special train that skips Harlem altogether.

Its too bad that its difficult to have a discussion on Streeteasy without ad hominen attacks.

You're on the special train all right. The 34th Precinct (Washington Heights) had 8 murders and 19 rapes so far in 2011, vs. 5 murders and 13 rapes in the 28th Precinct (Harlem). It doesn't seem so drastically different that you should live in one and avoid the other.

Maly - review stats. Sadly the rape cases are often doestic rape. Not being dragged off the street rape. And the murders are extremely tied to battles between drug factions. Rarely is the avergage citizen attcked - whether we're discussing the WV or Harlem or Brooklyn.

Anecdotal assessment is often an inaccurate way to spot trends. A better way may be to take a look at actual crime statistics: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/crime_prevention/crime_statistics.shtml
For the precincts covering Harlem and surrounding areas, there is not a spike in homicides or felony assaults this last year compared to the same period one year ealier--in some cases crime is actually down:
25th Pct
-Homicides: 12 in 2010, 9 in 2011.
-Felony assaults: 220 in 2010, 216 in 2011.
28th Pct
-Homicides: 5 in 2010, 5 in 2011.
-Felony assaults: 12 in 2010, 17 in 2011.
32nd Pct
-Homicides: 7 in 2010, 8 in 2011.
-Felony assaults: 302 in 2010, 297 in 2011.

btw, they arrested the kid who shot that woman. 16 year old from a st. nick houses.

We should outlaw guns.

agreed...it's ludicrous that guns are not outlawed

also be wary of the any compustat stats other than murder, the only one that's fudge-proof

do you really believe a 16yo kid who shoots people is using his legally obtained registered weapon?

Well, yesterday morning I ran across a crime scene in my neighborhood (Chelsea); two dead.

...but, if it make you feel any better, it appears to have taken place inside an apartment/building b'twn people known to each other (murder/suicide).

Could be worse, could be Baltimore
http://crimebaltimore.com/

sounds like a rainy day for SunnyD

If Harlem is so dangerous, then why are you there?

Any white person in Harlem after dark is there to buy weed.

I can't believe Jason said that Harlem has lower crime because it diversified races.

Outlawing guns serves what purpose? The illegal guns in use wouldn't be more illegal.

Sunny and eliz, does it matter? Is it better to be raped by your cousin's boyfriend, as opposed to a window washer you've never been properly introduced to? Would you rather be killed by your ex than by a stranger?
I fail to see how that's relevant.

I like the random nature and responce to to the crime reported.
This week several armed thefts of iPhones took place on or near madison ave in the low 70s.
Should this area be avoided at all costs?

if you are talking on your Iphone ... maybe

kylewest thanks for digging that up. So we will see what the final 2011 stats are, but it sounds like more hype for now.

maly
about 1 hour ago Sunny and eliz, does it matter? Is it better to be raped by your cousin's boyfriend, as opposed to a window washer you've never been properly introduced to? Would you rather be killed by your ex than by a stranger?
I fail to see how that's relevant

it is relevant because it isn't random. it doesn't matter where someone lives if they are going to be killed by someone they know, whereas street crime is specific to certain areas.

@Maly
I'm surprised that this requires explanation, but here goes. The OP was expressing growing concern with the level of street violence in the community. If someone you know is out to get you, it's unlikely that they'll just call the whole thing off once they realize that you live at 72nd/5th.

"..it's ludicrous that guns are not outlawed"

not THAT ludicrous, really

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

guns to republicans is like drugs to junkies

so harlem must be a republican hot spot, is this logic wrong?

and yes, republican=racist, harlem is a racist borough in fact

I'm not sure a bunch of armed 16 year olds in the projects could be considered a militia.

they are considered pirates in Yemen. What do they call them in Somalia?

I think they called them revolutionaries in Libya. a term that is also used in many South and Central American countries.

"I'm not sure a bunch of armed 16 year olds in the projects could be considered a militia."

the guns used in these types of crimes are already illegal

"the guns used in these types of crimes are already illegal"

THANK YOU.

All that gun-control laws do are keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Criminals can and will get their hands on guns, no matter what laws are on the books.

But gun control laws would certainly cut down on accidental shootings by law-abiding citizens. That would be wonderful!

lucillebluth
about 15 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse "..it's ludicrous that guns are not outlawed"

not THAT ludicrous, really

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

made perfect sense when it was written over 200 years ago. when we didn't have a standing army or police officers. now, it leads to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

constition also said that only land-holding white men could vote. we changed that for the better didn't we? the constitional arguement is silly

So what is your point, Lucille, in citing the Second Amendment? That those guns should be legal? The Second Amendment obviously does not, on a blanket basis, prevent limitations on gun ownership; it is the scope of the Second Amendment that is debated. How there can be any debate is beyond me. The Second Amendment clearly links the right to bear arms to state militia and it is comical how strict constructionists/originalists on all other issues ignore the actual language when discussing gun control.

"But gun control laws would certainly cut down on accidental shootings by law-abiding citizens. That would be wonderful!"

More law-abiding are injured and killed in accidental car crashes than by guns.

Maybe we should outlaw cars?

with all due respect (except to jim), i think people who take the position that guns should be removed from society might be misunderstanding the purpose of the 2nd amendment. the conveived purpose of the gun you have a right to own is not to protect you from crime, your armed and militarized government forces do that. 2nd amendment is meant to be the people's last line of defense against THOSE FORCES should they be turned on them by their government. stripping civilians of the right to own firearms is often a resonant and disturbingly common precursor to a dictatorship and government initiated violence. and that's not something charleton heston and dick cheney made up, that's history. here's one, everyone loves a good nazi connection. he 1938 german weapons act which made gun ownership by jews illegal was signed into law on 11/11, but this bad guy head of police http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf-Heinrich_Graf_von_Helldorf had already been enforcing it for a few days. Kristallnacht was the night of 11/9-10. when horrible things of massive proportions happen and people ask, how could the decent people there allow it? go back a few years and those people had most likely voluntarily and even enthusiastically surrendered their right to own weapons. gun violence is tragic (and not to be conflated with gun accidents, as people love to do), but, again, people who shoot people with guns are not going respect gun control laws. which already exist! new york has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. but you know who doesn't? switzerland. the most peaceful and polite place ever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland that's why they're so polite!

Take your stinking paws off me you damn dirty ape!

opps wrong one. meant this one

From my cold dead hands

outlawing civilian ownership of firearms will not result in whatever people who support that think it will. the war on guns will in reality be analogous in deadly, stupid and enriching to bad people as the war on drugs.

comare this gun ownership rate chart

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership_rate

to this firearms related death rate chart

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

a gun is an inanimate object. people kill people and they always have.

"Maybe we should outlaw cars?"

Nah, we probably shouldn't do that. You see, cars provide a lot more utility than guns, especially on a per-accidental-death basis.

"You see, cars provide a lot more utility than guns, especially on a per-accidental-death basis."

Oh I don't know.

Protecting your home and family from government and criminal intimidation 24/7 is pretty utilitarian.

why not just out law handguns and any automatic (or convertable) gun.
limit caliber and bullit compistion to hunting and sport shooting.
Americans have the right to bare arms...not any armament they can think of.

"1938 german weapons act which made gun ownership by jews illegal was signed into law ... those people had most likely voluntarily and even enthusiastically surrendered their right to own weapons."

Of course they did.

That's because they were so darned "enlightened", and felt that humanity had learned their hard lessons from the "war to end all wars", and having learned that lesson, society was on a trajectory of nothing but peace, so why should one need a gun?

"Protecting your home and family from government and criminal intimidation 24/7 is pretty utilitarian."

Totes. I have no idea how the citizens of Canada and the UK manage to do it sans firearms!

"I have no idea how the citizens of Canada and the UK manage to do it sans firearms!"

Actually, if you paid any attention to the news, you'd have seen last year that quite a few people in Britain were victimized by rioters in London because they had no way to defend their homes or business establishments.

"Actually, if you paid any attention to the news, you'd have seen last year that quite a few people in Britain were victimized by rioters in London because they had no way to defend their homes or business establishments"

Actually, the far more likely scenario is that more rioters would have been armed with guns than business/homeowners.

" I have no idea how the citizens of Canada and the UK manage to do it sans firearms!"

you did not even just write that

first they come for your guns, then they come for your cutlery

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=britain+knife+crime&pbx=1&oq=britain+knife+&aq=1&aqi=g3g-v1&aql=1&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=3417l7052l0l8986l14l12l0l2l2l0l250l2121l2.5.5l14l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=b97d9178efad763e&biw=1280&bih=559

"Actually, the far more likely scenario is that more rioters would have been armed with guns than business/homeowners."

That's right.

As a business/homeowner, I'd certainly like the playing field to be even.

"As a business/homeowner, I'd certainly like the playing field to be even."

The playing field was much more even than it would have been.

"The playing field was much more even than it would have been."

How is the playing field "even" when the looters have guns but the law-abiding citizens they are targeting do not?

"How is the playing field "even" when the looters have guns but the law-abiding citizens they are targeting do not?"

Because during the London riots the # of guns used by criminals and by law-abiding citizens was much more evenly matched than it would have been had there been no gun control.

Bullshit.

I think airlines should give EVERYONE a boxcutter as they board a plane.
Who the hell is going to take over a plane with 200 or so lightly armed passengers.

On London riots,allowed private gun ownership would have seen less than 1/10th of the looting,injuries and damage achieved, though the likelyhood of a death or 2 would have been tenfold.
Pick your poison.

An oldie and a gem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVcW-dj26_o

Anyway, how come gun deaths are higher in states where people have easier access to them then in places where is the laws are more restrictive?

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

more guns, more people shot to death. anyone else should move to texas where they belong. this city is for civilized people.

>On London riots,allowed private gun ownership would have seen less than 1/10th of the looting,injuries and damage achieved, though the likelyhood of a death or 2 would have been tenfold.
Pick your poison.

Who would have died? the Looters?

i have no desire to communicate with the unfortunate mrs. hones and only wish her the best.

" "out" me as you call it. quick, don't think, judt do it."

hhmmmmm..better not. one might get in trouble that way. im just not sure you have considered my interests in this and it's important in life to learn about whom to trust and which people to listen to.

Under the Jim_Hones plan, can police have guns?

only billy clubs

>legalize marijuana and tax the living shit out of it

we currently "tax the living shit" out of cigarettes, and as a result we have all sorts of illegal rackets, smuggling, inter-state transport, loosies, ... and a government that now has a vested interest in the revenues from unhealthy cigarettes.