How Much Do You Need To Earn To Feel Rich??

Really? Ok, now I get the high level of bankruptcies in recent years. Thanks for the info.

The question is phrased wrong. It's how much you need to earn, but how much you need to have. And the
answer is a minimum of $5,000,0000 to $10,000,000.

This is survey is not NYC RS..

No, it wasn't NYC but my thought is that they queried lower-income earners because once you start earning the amounts you stated & wanted to assume a wealthy lifestyle, you'd soon realize you needed more.

"No, it wasn't NYC but my thought is that they queried lower-income earners because once you start earning the amounts you stated & wanted to assume a wealthy lifestyle, you'd soon realize you needed more."

Well, most people earn (a lot) less than $150K, so of course any survey that samples the general population is going to include mostly people in this "lower-income earner" category.

Financially, I will feel rich when the earnings from my low risk investments can cover all my living expenses.

Well said, whenever you're passive income covers ALL your living expenses.

The numbers don't matter, you're wealthy at that point. Rich means nothing.

Financially, I will feel rich when the earnings from my low risk investments can cover all my living expenses

that's the goal, every time the interest on my savings covers some additional monthly expense category, i feel like i acheived something.

Well said, whenever you're passive income covers ALL your living expenses.

i agree with this.... with rates pretty much at 0% for low risk... i feel very poor right now.

All day long I'd biddy biddy bum.....

At the lowest end for Manhattan richyrich
(these are consistant annual reproducable income figures)

650k/yr to feel rich
1M/yr live rich
1.5/yr be rich

NO MATTER HOW MUCH RE BUBBLE INCOME YOU TAKE IN..... there's always some AZZHOLE with a bigger PH with more gold toilets.

"The question is phrased wrong. It's how much you need to earn, but how much you need to have. "

"This is survey is not NYC RS.."

Not exactlycorrect. The actual Gallup poll DID break it out by income level, city dweller, and yes NET WORTH. See http://www.gallup.com/poll/151427/Americans-Set-Rich-Threshold-150-000-Annual-Income.aspx

And here is a similar story SPECIFICALLY on NYC:

"New York City's 1 Percent Earn $493,000 A Year Or More "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/13/new-york-citys-1-percent-_n_1146148.html?ref=new-york#access_token=AAAAACuIpepUBAMoPfLtDB30tgoVTdtZAQZBXwTHxliNrWWB290GE8ojv5sZCAZAQtNkkuvWYn9seYr8ZAcNGdM1qDplRUdbjtZAZCmyZAVjQlNKvKosNvZBVS&expires_in=6163

That's really interesting that 99% of all NYC residents earn less than $500,000/year. But that can't count all the NYC residents who have multiple homes and similiar situations.

"A separate question in the poll asked Americans how much net worth, or savings in cash, stocks, real estate, and other investments, they would need to consider themselves rich. The median figure Americans give is $1 million, the same as in Gallup's 2003 poll asking the same question."

SO there.

I can feel rich if I don't have to work, the government has all these programs for me and my family including medical. What more do I need?

Agree with Falco. $750k stable annual family income will be in the rich category in Manhattan even if you have 2 kids in private school. You can afford a nice 3 bed room, luxury vacations, nice dinners many times a month, designer clothing, and decent savings.

Are we talking after tax income? After Federal, State, City payroll taxes, FICA, medicare, real estate taxes, fees (water/sewer) $750,000 can become $400,000 or less. With this income, you will be paying full price for everything - college costs, etc. If you are living in a Manhattan 3 BR - not much left for luxury vacations, nice dinners, and decent savings.

750k gross income in Manhattan for a family of 4 you can live rich? I guess it depends what your definition of rich is, but with that income, you can afford to rent a nice classic 6 or 7, pay for private school, nanny, go on 2 or 3 nice vacations a year, dinners, nice clothes.

But certainly not have much savings left over.

I did mean post tax and STABLE. $400K post-tax is about right. Generous expenses: $7-8K for a 3 b/r (I am not taking about park avenue prime, Village penthouse with huge terrace, which is for super rich) 100K per year, $80K per year for 2 private schools, $100K other living expenses including nice dinners/clothing, house hold help, $20k for 2 nice family vacations (not south of France - for super rich again). Leaves $100K in savings. For someone with STABLE income, that is a very good rate of savings per year (if you are 40, will save that for next 25 years and have a couple of million saved already). Problem is that most people assume that their finance jobs can last forever. I take at leat a 25% haircut on finance jobs. If you are a law firm partner/doctor, barely any haircut.

Sounds almost like an argument against having children in the city :)

Well if you want to send them to private schools, you do need to make good money. BTW, I do not think being rich means an ability to send your kids to private schools even from k-5th grade. There are certainly some good public schools in the city but real eastate is bit more expensive in these areas.

I will assume that most "rich" people (by Manhattan standards) with 2+ kids would not settle for a C6 or 7 unless they have a 2nd home elsewhere.

uwsmom, that is exactly the problem. Every one confused super-rich with rich. I know plenty of people who make $1mm per year, feel rich, live in large 2 b/r (1500+ sq ft) with their two kids who go to good public schools. They do not feel the need of second home or a large 3 b/r. What do you call these people. W67 analogy is a little crass but good.

i don't see it as the problem, but as the reality. in manhattan, to BE rich, to live VERY comfortably with many luxuries you really need to BE the uber rich.

But i strongly encourage people to FEEL as rich as they'd like.

For all the people who want to feel rich, keep your fixed expenses low (slightly smaller apt than you can afford, put the kids in public school), you will start to feel richer. Also, find some friends who do not make as much as you do. There are a lot of people in Manhattan who feel rich with $400K if they do not send their kids to private school - a side benefit that you would not be competing with the other parents who are sending their kids to private school.

Mercer: 7-8k for a 3BR in a prime area is a stretch. 10-12k more like it.

You also forgot things like: a car, insurance, clothes, food.

And 20k for two nice vacations for a family of four? If it involves an airplane and two hotel rooms I would challenge that also.
Just think you are underestimating in a lot of categories.

How about you give me your seven or eight top line item expenses and do a back-of-the-napkin for me?

I actually want to do this exercise.

AGAIN
"New York City's [TOP] 1 Percent Earn $493,000 A Year Or More "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/13/new-york-citys-1-percent-_n_1146148.html?ref=new-york#access_token=AAAAACuIpepUBAMoPfLtDB30tgoVTdtZAQZBXwTHxliNrWWB290GE8ojv5sZCAZAQtNkkuvWYn9seYr8ZAcNGdM1qDplRUdbjtZAZCmyZAVjQlNKvKosNvZBVS&expires_in=6163

If you make more than 99% of people in NYC, yes you are "rich" by even NYC standards.

Mercer show me a few 7-8k rentals in nice areas of Manhattan that can easily accomodate a family of 4.
Not talking Park Avenue prime or Village Penthouse either. Youre going to need at least a decent classic 6? Show it to me brotha.

From experience I can tell you the second home quickly becomes just a cost center once you have kids. When they're babies it works but once in school and activities you end up here on weekends. I suspect until our youngest loses interest in sport or decided we aren't allowed to attend our second home will be rented out.
That's our biggest useless, money suck.

W67: Eastern Europe, my friend.

Bfgross: 300 definitely underestimated.

I rent a 1900sq ft 3BR in the riverhouse in BPC which I think is pretty nice for 8600 and we are a family of four.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/814111-rental-137-east-66th-street-lenox-hill-new-york
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/810166-rental-253-west-73rd-street-upper-west-side-new-york
BTW, Nada, keeps on posting how he can nice apts for a less than $4 per ft per month. For a 1700 sq ft 3 bed, that is below $6800 per month. My view of pricing is 4-5 per sq ft. For $8K you can get a very nice place.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/780627-rental-12-west-18th-street-flatiron-new-york
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/819216-rental-330-east-38th-street-murray-hill-new-york

Two more.

don't mean to nitpick, but 253 W73 is a short-term furnished rental. not good for families.

These apartment are perfectly adequate even for a family of 5 (two kids of the same sex share a room). Again space requirement is very personal. We like a lot of space but do not care about views.

bfgross, you have to be crazy to keep a car in Manhattan. I feel rich but feel absolutely no need to keep a car.

Vacation: Flight for 4 to Vail $2500K, Condo rental for a week $4K. $3500 for lift tickets ($400 per day for 4 including equipment rental for 4 days; assuming two of you have your own skis), meals and sundry. $10K. You have to be crazy not to call that a vacation only rich can afford.

There are a lot of spoilt minimum expectation in NYC. A nice house rental for the summer in the hamptons is for the super-rich not for just rich.

Nada, can you please help dispel the notion that 3b/2bath (1600-1700 sq ft) can not be found for less than $8k. My estimate of rent is always a min of $4 per ft per month. But without anything special (view, brand new related rental), it does not go above $5.

Mercer, while I respect that you put out some apts in that price range that APPEAR fine, to my way of looking, most of them really arent. Most of them are not really family friendly spaces or buildings or near schools that said hypothetical family would be sending their kids to.

I confess I dont know the prices for the Vail vacation you site, but I am guess all those numbers are HIGHER once you factor in the fact that you can only go on the most prime school holiday weeks. Ill leave it someone else here to refute your numbers.

As far as a car goes, I dont own one, but nearly every family I know who lives in the city does, even those without second homes. They tell me they constantly are shuttling kids to activities all over the tri-state area, doing so in a manner they consider safe, (ie their car, car seats (depending on age) etc.)

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/812507-rental-20-w-10-greenwich-village-new-york

Here is one in a nice school district. Also, my previous post assumed that you will sending kids to private school. You will be saving that money in this place as least upto 5th grade.

Here is my "budget" for this hypothetical family.
All numbers are monthly: Assume income of 750k yearly or approx 35k/month after taxes:

housing 10k (incl utilities cable bills)
school and related 8k
childcare,cleaning woman, dog walker 3k
food 2k
dining out/entertainment (concerts, birthday gifts, parties) 2k
vacations 2k
insurance (apt, life)1k
car 1k
clothes 1k

thats 30k a month right there and I have got to all the little nitpicky things that are part of peoples world here like: charity, tips, cabs, and other miscellany.

Now how much is really left over???????

Btw, im not saying you cant save any $ under my assumptions but its not easy for a family to live "upper middle class" in Manhattan on 750k gross AND save much. Thats what Im saying

Why have a dog if you can not walk the dog yourself? I thought only single woman who do not have kids have to a have a dog as their baby and related dogcare expenses. Car is unnecesary. A couple of minor adjustments (my housing estimate will be max $8K, if I am spending extra for prime school district, school and related expenses will be much lower that 8K per month), you are saving $100K per year (since you are paying for the kids education, you do not need to save extra for the kids college). I did say STABLE $750K per year.

bf, private school is not upper middle class by any means. It is sheer luxury for only the rich. 24K year for vaca is not upper middle class. Upper middle class vaca is going upstate and renting a nice house in catskills for 1-2 weeks for 4K and mostly cook at the house.

bf, just trying make you realize that your definition of upper middle class is way off.

Ive never understood how people can ever "feel" rich in this city...I have made between 1.5mm-2.5mm a year for 3 years straight...and a good 500k-1.25mm for 4-5 years prior to making what I thought was decent money

Im not kidding...Im married with no kids, and Im always nervous with not having enough money to even have kids. Not that i live a super cheap life, but I keep it within reason...standard rent for 2 bedroom is 5-10k per month...car, expense to park it, summer rental in hamptons etc.....but you would think making around an avg of 2mm bucks would allow you to do the basic "nice life" expenses and have more than enough to save and have a huge nest egg.

Who are the people in NY that buy the townhouses in the west village for 10mm+ outside of rich chinese/russians? I feel like I would have to make 5mm a year to be comfortbale buying one of those places

Oh Bob, you poor man!

does feel rich = feel secure?

bobF, it is likely that you work in finance when the careers may be very short. Hence the insecurity. Hamptons is not "basic nice life". It is highly luxurious life unless you are sharing a house with 10 people. Even having a house to yourself on Jersey shore is for the rich not for upper middle class.

I also hear absurd definitions of rich from many of my co-workers - if can you not retire at 45 with $10mm in your bank you are not rich. Bobf will in this category.

300_mercer - I agree with you. Hamptons is a luxury. Im merely saying that my opinion of "feeling rich" is if you can have a summer rental, and a reasonably nice apartment...but also not really having to worry about money. Im saying that even though i have made good money in the past...i still dont feel rich or secure.

and yes, financial careers can be short. and this year will be a fisting for a lot of folks. I just cant see how ny real estate will remain at these levels. the math just doesnt make sense; especially now that banks are requiring so much more upfront/downpayment

BobF, I really feel sorry for you. You feel empty and unfulfilled in spite of clearly being extremely wealthy and relatively lucky. You and your ilk are exactly what is wrong with this otherwise awesome city. Always worried about the joneses. Seriously, some of you need to get your head out of the place where the sun does not shine, and look around at the world. You are truly privileged to be born not only in the right part of the world (Western), the right country (USA), but also to be in the most prosperous city and zip code. That is all just by luck, not something amazing you did. You could have easily been randomly born in a gutter in a slum in Mumbai or in the middle of a warzone like the D.R.C. (that is a country in Africa for some of you who aren't aware that Africa is NOT a country) where you might be lucky to starve to death in your infancy so that you do not have to live out your wretched existence. Now, add to the fact that you are clearly in the top 1% or higher of the Manhattan population (not even talking all the boroughs here) and you don't feel 'rich'? You are rich. I earn far less than you and so do most of my large group of friends and we all live pretty damn well. We enjoy life to the fullest and feel 'rich'. Why the hell do you 'need' so much space and all these material things? What are you going to do with all this crap? Enough is enough. You need to stop somewhere and realize that you are rich. If you don't realize that early on (and trust me you are way late) its a downward spiral. Good luck, and I mean it!

In view of the holiday season and the economy, how about we change this to "How Much Do You Need to Earn Not To Feel Poor?" I suspect that there's a big chasm between that and feeling rich.

I can't feel poor as long as we are not worried about our next year's meals or housing or our health.

"Nada, can you please help dispel the notion that 3b/2bath (1600-1700 sq ft) can not be found for less than $8k. My estimate of rent is always a min of $4 per ft per month. But without anything special (view, brand new related rental), it does not go above $5."

Who cares? You say $8K, bfgross says $10K. It's $24K a year, $40K in pre-tax income. People here are arguing over increments of income an order of magnitude larger. It all depends on an ever-moving line of "nice" and "affordable". Maybe I'm jolly fucking roger, and I say I need to buy a 3000 sq ft apt overlooking the park costing $6M, something my $1M income cannot afford comfortably. Now maybe I don't feel rich, but I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that I'm a rich asshole.

If you ask me, if you're in the top 1% of the richest city of a very wealthy country, making $500K a year, and you don't _feel_ rich, you're a fucking idiot. If it were up to me, I'd send you to Zuccotti Park with a sandwich board sign reading "I make $500K, but I don't FEEL rich. Please give me more." No need to worry for your safety though, they'd all think you're just mocking the 1%.

Inonada, a family with a combined gross income of $500K (or even $750K) is definitely NOT rich in Manhattan. I’d argue lower middle class. In a good year, that couple can certainly afford a 3 bedroom apartment, tuition, vacations, etc. But, let’s face it, 1,700-2,000 square feet for 4 people is a tiny amount of space - doesn't make you feel "rich". Also, the $500K-$750K is not likely being earned in base salary. The $500K-$750K is likely HIGHLY dependent on a financial services industry bonus. Sometimes those bonuses are good. Sometimes they’re bad. Sometimes you get a pink slip and 3 months’ salary for severance. A couple expecting to earn $500K-$750K could end up with far less than that in any given year. So the family spending like bfgross’ hypothetical is actually living way beyond their true means and is therefore, in my view, lower middle class.

$500k in Manhattan is LOWER middle class? You've got to be kidding.

Live on base, retire on bonus was what I was taught as a young banker.

I guess when your bitchy wife/boyfriend isn't on the same page, and ya gotta live in cpw c8 one yr outta MBA program trying to emulate your senior banker=> ya getz the biggest fking real estate bubble in history.

We ARE ALL rich!!!!!, if every one of us takes out a mortgage we can never pay back on our base salary. Flmaozzz

The country's top 1% makes in excess of $500K, so not sure why 1% is top 1% in NYC.

i feel like all of the people who are saying that $500k in nyc simply don't live here. I agree that in nyc, 500k is middle class. also don't forget that if that is in the finance industry...40% of that is likely in deferred stock.

so lets say last year i made $750,000. Half of that is taxed...that leaves you with $375,000. 40% of that is in stock which vests quarter each year. SO--> thats $225,000 in cash in total for the year. Oh, and by the way, the $150,000 in deferred stock is currently worth $90,000.

Back to my point...i don't understand who are the guys that can afford the 10mm townhouses

is this a bad joke?

if 500K is middle class, how would you characterize the doorman in your building?

and, by the way, if you're paying taxes on unvested stock, you should get a new accountant.

>and, by the way, if you're paying taxes on unvested stock, you should get a new accountant.

Not really. There's a tax election you might choose to take. It isn't without some high risks including the potential of not actually receiving the vested shares (e.g. your employment is ended), but if you take the risk then you pay income taxes on the value now, and get cap gains taxes on the appreciation, instead of paying the full income tax rate when they vest.

but what does this mean:
>Oh, and by the way, the $150,000 in deferred stock is currently worth $90,000.

To correct my prior statement:
The country's top 1% makes in excess of $500K, so not sure why 1% is top 1% in NYC.

->
The country's top 1% makes in excess of $500K, so not sure why $500K is top 1% in NYC.

brilliant advice.

I don't give advice. I don't know individual circumstances, and one size doesn't fit all. I know that's contrary to some of your heroes here whose own personal ratio or circumstances seems to apply to all.

Screw it, I say $500K is the poverty line in NYC. Even a hypothetical guy making $750K does not have enough education or basic math skills to know that he'll have $450K left after taxes, not $375K.

be fair
Manhattan is skewed. 500K+ in most places in America is F'in great. In your town your a big shot.
500K in Manhattan...we never see your face in the society donation gala website photos.
You feel middle class because you can only afford a place for 1.7M which, to be fair, is not all that impression.

welcome back w67th. you need to get the others back, these boards have been left to the musings of the barely halfwits. petrfitz (and one of his new handles), angeloz, socialist, truth, jason, jordyn and the rest of the clan. like watching paint dry. about as intellectually stimulating as watching a kardashian marathon.

have the others come back, its a wasteland i tell ya.

and the "pros" are feeling really wonky these days and are back on the prowl......

Here is the exact breakdown for MANHATTAN in 2010:

New York County, New York
Estimate Margin of Error
Quintile Means:
Lowest Quintile 9,710 +/-298
Second Quintile 32,661 +/-698
Third Quintile 65,741 +/-933
Fourth Quintile 119,842 +/-1,579
Highest Quintile 386,482 +/-8,993
Top 5 Percent 793,235 +/-28,577
Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2008-2010 American Community Survey

So the AVERAGE houshold in the TOP FIVE PERCENT in Manhattan (not NYC, JUST Manhattan) makes $793k per year.

http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_10_3YR_B19081&prodType=table

average is such an ugly word.

i love how you guys have to curse and get angry. Relax.

Anyone who lives in one of the decent areas of manhattan...and pays 5-10k a month in rent (which is reasonable assumption for a 2 or 3br place)...and makes 750,000 year is not even close to rich. Obviously there is no mathematical formula for determining "class" and by no means am i suggesting the 750 is lower middle class. I am saying that its not enough to make you "feel rich"...and I'm loosely defining rich as not having to worry about money, being able to afford a modest summer rental for your family, have 1 car, and being able to travel without hesitation bc of cost.

i saw other people saying you don't "need" a car...of course you don't need a car, but its a basic luxury that almost everyone outside of ny enjoys.

Anyone that is going to rant about how I'm a jackass bc they think 750k is a ton of money in ny must not have a family in the city or live in one of the normal to expensive areas. I have 2 kids and a wife....and 750k can hardly take care of the basic necessities with light luxury and also save decent money for investing and the future. anyone who refutes that must be living somewhere that is cheaper (harlem, financial district, brooklyn etc)

fair enough...so i would sort of agree with jasons comment of "So the AVERAGE houshold in the TOP FIVE PERCENT in Manhattan (not NYC, JUST Manhattan) makes $793k per year."...... meaning that if you make more than 750k then you an live a comfortable lifestyle, support your family, and maybe save a little bit per year; but not much.

BobF - 24hrs is a pretty impressive gestation period. you must be making good money off that magical elixir.

This thread is hilarious. It starts with a story showing that most people in this country wouldn't need a huge amount of money to feel rich. Rather than this serving as inspiration for a moment of reflection on how well most of us are doing, we get the usual ridiculous whining that people earning in the top few percent of one of the richest places in the world are somehow barely middle class after they get done paying for all of their decidedly non-middle class expenses.

BobF--my wife and I together earn less than $750K. We rent a 2BR place that's in your $5k-$10k range. We vacation at the Four Seasons, Aman Resorts, and the equivalent. We both get four weeks of vacation and we use it all so we spend a lot more (expensive) leisure time than most Americans. We get there by flying in premium cabins on airplanes (sometimes upgraded, but last year I ended up spending a bunch on a couple of international first class tickets for a trip to Asia)--my wife sat next to Reggie Jackson on a recent flight. Some nights we decide that we want a good meal and spontaneously go to a place like Per Se or Le Bernardin that for most people represents the meal of a lifetime. We also manage to save more than the average American earns pre-tax per year. I have no idea how you'd look at our lifestyle and conclude we're anything but rich. Sure, we know people who are doing even better. We don't have a place in the Hamptons. Rather than using the knowledge that there's richer people around to feel sorry for ourselves, we try to do our best to enjoy our lives and the incredible opportunities that we get out of all that money. It must be really sad to earn more than twice what we do and feel like you're sort of struggling to get by.

well said, jordyn. the issue of feeling rich is one of relativity, which is BobF's challenge. the problem with the U.S., and this is perhaps most pronounced in NYC, is that the difference in earnings is exponential at the high end. the top .01% makes the top 1% look like chump change. so if you are in the top 1% or .5% but hang out with people in the top .3 or .1%, then you probably feel poor.

my advice to BobF: go volunteer at a soup kitchen or for Big Brothers and Sisters. You'll probably feel a hell of a lot richer, inside and out.

w67: "We got the whole fking world to believe housesitting is an acceptable career path! "

When the history of this era is written (soon), this will certainly be the defining estimation of the bubble and NYC will literally be ground zero for the problem since the greedsters who created the problem (Bear Stearns morons!) reaped the benefits and used them to boost the bubble on their home turf -- they pimped all of Manhattan.

When Europe implodes, all of Manhattan will be asking in Dickension unison "Who will buy?" Cue the orphans.

"my wife sat next to Reggie Jackson on a recent flight"

I hear you, stuck in business class with the lower-middle class schmucks again.

uwsmom: "BobF - 24hrs is a pretty impressive gestation period. you must be making good money off that magical elixir."

Like I said, the poverty line is $500K. Here we have a guy making $2M, but he can't even keep a straight story about whether or not he has kids. Malnutrition. Screw it, I say the poverty line is now $2M.

jordyn,

Just wondering, how do you get into Per Se or Le Bernardin on such short notice?

ino: Screw it, I say the poverty line is now $2M.

Ha! You the itness

;

;

You caught me...I don't have kids...they are theoretical...I was forecasting 4 years in the future...either way, I'm saying that if i had 2 kids and lived in the city, i don't know how you could save much money after expenses. i came from a poor family so my idea of how much i need to save as a % of my overall pay is prob higher than most others. even with the money i make i am always worried about the future

and I'm not whining at all..i make a lot of money and i enjoy it. i merely said if i made less than 750k, i wouldn't feel like i make a ton of money. obviously there is nothing wrong with that; and if i switched jobs that allowed me to work less and not be as stressed...id prob be happier overall.

inonada - you seem like you just hate people for making money. you understand that its not just given to people (well, not given to most). Hell, maybe ill let you invest in my elixir business.

"Just wondering, how do you get into Per Se or Le Bernardin on such short notice?"

You can't most of the time, but they're both on OpenTable so sometimes same-day reservations will pop up if someone else cancels. (And both do have bar areas where you can eat without a reservation, though.)

Bob, I find it inconceivable that you come from a poor family and still don't feel rich earning over a million dollars a year. If you asked the poor folks you grew up with whether or not you were rich, what do you think they'd say? This may lend some perspective on the topic.

P.S. I'm pretty sure inonada does just fine in the money making department.

Guys BobF is obviously trolling, it was obvious at his second message. And has succeeded in his effort.

>P.S. I'm pretty sure inonada does just fine in the money making department.

He specifically said just days ago that he made $1MM.

"inonada - you seem like you just hate people for making money."

I don't hate people for making money. I hate whiny little piss-ants who bitch and moan despite the money they make.

depends on where you are starting from. if you live in a home that belong to your family, you need way much less to live at the same level of a new comer / immigrant.

Nada, I could not agree with you more. Any one in Manhattan who makes more than $500K should not whine about being poor or feeling poor.

Someone posted that 1700-2000ft apt in Manhattan is too small - that is purely spoilt brat or unfit for the city. Most large cities in the world have much smaller apartments that Manhattan and many truly rich by any standards live happily in these apartments without feeling cramped. Tokyo, London, HK. 3 Bedroom in these cities rarely are bigger than 1500 sq ft. Most houses in the UK which are considered big are 2000 sq ft. You can not have expectation of a suburban space in a large city. Just shows out of touch with reality.

Who buys the townhouses - senior bankers/traders/HF mananagers (think head of a department making $5mm+ for many years), top 3 executives in the other industries, athleters/stars, people who sold their businesses and now want to move to New York, old money, small business owners. Also, there are 18 foot wide townhouses are well which are cheaper at $3mm range (excluding these), which even poor people making $1mm can afford!! Personally townhouse not for us unless it is 25 foot wide due to wasted space in stairs, hallways etc.

People should not count the unvested stock as their income or assets. Income is what you declare as your earned or investment income on your tax forms.

Jordyn, we need more people like you who appreciate what they have and are happy.

> Someone posted that 1700-2000ft apt in Manhattan is too small - that is purely spoilt brat or unfit for the city.

depends entirely on your household size. if you are talking about single guys, they you are 100% right.

> Personally townhouse not for us unless it is 25 foot wide due to wasted space in stairs, hallways etc.

no kidding! lack of light is enough to rule these ones out imho.

>People should not count the unvested stock as their income or assets. Income is what you declare as your earned or investment income on your tax forms.

yep, bankers are learning this as we speak with their unvested bonuses down more htan 40% YTD

bobf, car in the city is more of a stupidity rather than luxury (which I admit to in my younger years). Now I just rent a nice car when needed. If you want to go outside of the city every weekend, why live in the city? There are nice houses in catskills you can buy for $500K if you really want a second home. Also, if you go away every weekend to your second home (reason to have a car), you do not need a large apartment in NYC (1400 sq ft 3 bedroom with 2 kids is more than adequate).

notadmin, even for a family of 6 1700-2000 is pretty large (crazy to have 4 kids in Manhattan being a separate issue). Kid's bedroom, if not shared, does not need to be any bigger than 8*9 (single bed and a desk is all you need) - and having your own bedroom as a kid is only for the rich. Think dorms. Most dorms are 2 students to one room. Think fancy boarding schools in UK. Very few have private bedrooms. NYU business school dorms have 2 people to a large studio if you want to live close to school.

> Kid's bedroom, if not shared, does not need to be any bigger than 8*9 (single bed and a desk is all you need)

even maid's rooms were designed to be bigger than this in older floor plans (less than 100 years ago).

> Having your own bedroom as a kid is only for the rich. Think dorms. Most dorms are 2 students to one room

i wouldn't put a door as the new standard. in fact, i'd argue that college students shouldn't put up with those living conditions given the tuition they are expected to pay.

about whether sharing is a luxury or not, it's in a great deal cultural. for example, take Netherlands, which is one of the best countries to be a kid. cause let's face it, one shouldn't use UK or USA as a standard for kid-related things if one has to have standards at all, those 2 are bottom of the barrel when it comes to "what kids need". in Netherlands parents consider that kids deserve their own room and privacy. so it's not a "luxury" necessarily as its population is not made up by "catching up with the jones" types at all, just reasonable people.

as BobF said, he started this about what it takes to feel rich in the city, and, for a family of four, 750k doesn't begin to do it.

The end

"well said, jordyn. the issue of feeling rich is one of relativity"

Perhaps.

But the issue of BEING rich is not relative.

As was stated earlier, if you're making more than $500K, you're making more than 99% of all New Yorkers (let alone AMERICANS). I don't give a rat's ass how you *feel* about it, when you have more money than 99% of everyone else you are R I C H, period.

You may not be Les Moonves rich, or Oprah Winfrey rich, but you are still *RICH*. And even trying to put yourself into the same classification of middle class ANYTHING is insulting to those who actually DO try to carve out an existence in this city on a true middle class income.

Rich and Wealthy are two different things. They guy with the seven figure contract playing for the[pick a team] Knicks is rich, the guy who owns the Knicks...Wealthy. This country is littered with people who were rich for a few years, spend it, lose the job, and discover that this country is like Chutes & Ladders(people rising and falling). Get an income, spend it and feel rich for a short time. Save it and feel rich for a lifetime.

Riversider, people don't get "wealthy" by saving.

They get wealthy by investing and OWNING BUSINESSES.

That is really the only ticket to *wealth* -- which most of us equate with financial independence.

Unless you invest wisely (and hopefully those investments include businesses), regardless of how much money you make, as long as you're working for someone else for your primary stream of income, you will never be independently *wealthy*.